Mimosa hostilis active without MAOI?

[Torsten]

I only know of one cabrerana seed supplier/source and that species turned out to be in the Stigmaphyllon genus. Not a Diplopterys at all.

So far I have only found one Mimosa hostilis supplier who has the real thing rather than selling Mimosa pudica. Seed will be up any day.

[Torsten]

On that note, anyone wishing to buy large vines of Stigmaphyllon, we have lots in the nursery. These are the most vigorous vines I have ever seen. Easily 4 times as vigorous as caapi, even in our area. Doesn't look like it contains harmaline though. No idea about other tryptamines.

[hebrew]

cool torsten i have to place and order when it is there

i bit off track here but do you predict any Diplopterys being available in australia in the future?

[Torsten]

Originally posted by hebrew:

do you predict any Diplopterys being available in australia in the future?

Yes. I know that at least 3 entirely separate people/groups have put this on the top of their list and I would be surprised if it is not already being propagated here. I haven't had an update for a few months, but all of them had experience in this sort of thing and have a source of material. The sheer number of people involved and dedication of them made me decide to keep out of this one. However, I am sure we will have access to plants as soon as they become available. From what I hear it propagates the same as caapi, so I'd assume a year or two of propagation before they emerge.

[apothecary]

Seeds arrived today, and there are at least twenty.

I'll try germinating five, and send the rest out if they are good.

The guy is meant to be sending another pack of seeds too

[planthelper]

who ever got diplop's in the future, please i want one!

i offer a fair exchange and one of the best homes in australia, for this beauty.

[Evil Genius]

Well, this year i found a source which sold them for a relative short range of time. If i should get some more, i´ll let you know but that isn´t very likely!

I´m sorry if i´m a little bit uninformed about the restrictions in Australia. Aren´t you allowed to import any viable seeds or is this restriction limited? It is hard to image for me, as we do not have such strict repressions.

[Rev]

www.aqis.gov.au/ICON

says it all

well nearly... customs has a public list and private list as well..

[.dg]

they have sustainable jurema farms in brazil. 1/3 the trees roots are dug up, then back-filled after harvest.

considering 1kg = us$60(wholesale) growing and harvesting your own seems like a long road...

perhaps importing rb is harder there?

note of interest, personal assays:

bark .5% up to 1.5% alk by dry volume

source in brazil claims different strains of mimos hostilis( like the one he has(1.5%)) are much better than others

if anyone'd like i can see if he'll offer seeds...

dg

[trucha]

So far we've run gc-ms on several samples of mimosa but none showed the betacarboline. We did this with a handful of obtusifolia also and only one had it. It did not look like much was there in that sample. Thre was no bufotenine in the Mimosa but it did show up in most of the obtisifolia at wildly varying levels. (Anyone want to guess which color of acacia resin the lowest bufotenine content coincided with?)

Its worth understanding that such saturated betacarbs are quite poor MAOIs. (As is DMT btw)

Ott's conjecture, annoying though it may be that he has strung this revelation-in-progress out for so many years without any completion, is likely more dead-on than an overlooked MAOI theory.

There is a goodly chunk of those seeds already in Oz. The more the merrier of course.

For those folks wanting to import Mimosa hostilis rootbark and failing due to it being a known DMT container, how about shooting for Mimosa ophthalmocentra rootbark? So far reported better than hostilis and likely to be under the radar for at least a while more.

[Torsten]

Originally posted by trout:

(Anyone want to guess which color of acacia resin the lowest bufotenine content coincided with?)

Not sure about the colour, but i would presume that any material that went through one or more strongly alkaline aqueous phases would probably have less bufotenine in it. Also, the more selective (non-polar) the solvent, the less bufotenine.

I vote for the dark goopy stuff being lower in bufotenine with the white/beige crystals being higher. I might be totally wrong here, but the goopy stuff is usually made with shellite which is a lot more polar and selective I would think.

That would be a pity though cos the clean crystals look better

For those folks wanting to import Mimosa hostilis rootbark and failing due to it being a known DMT container, how about shooting for Mimosa ophthalmocentra rootbark?

Once they work out one of them they probably keep an eye on all of them.

I'd be very keen on some opthalmocentra seeds though

[trucha]

Sorry about that. That was intended to mean in materials where all things except for the plant/time/(whatever-all-is-involved) specific to that harvest are equal.

All of what was chosen to be looked at (at least what was mentioned on this subject of bufotenine and obtusifolia) were pretty crudely finished (this was said to be by choice to try and keep the alkaloids as intact as possible) and all came from 1 of 2 different known sources of extractors.

It would probably be next to meaningless to compare profiles of samples of unknown provenance.

When material gets more white or light (or crystalline) from people trying to clean it up there is generally nothing else there but one thing.

All of what were mentioned were semisolid and oily. Whenever looked at closer all of these had a good bit of insoluble material.

When the material was orange and fairly light (the specific sample run was said to be a summer extract) only dmt was really present in what was looked at, with minute traces of other things.

In general the more brown and darker the material was the more bufotenine was in it. One of these was said to be a winter extract. (Bear in mind our number of available known samples was really too small to be able to predict much of anything that is solid yet)

The bright orange had mere traces. It was commonly commented on as friendlier and more colorful. A good number of people said they got more from the darker material despite it being a heavier and sometimes darker time and that it was a far more powerful spiritual tool in their practices. Several people have expressed a preference for it.

Obviously any suggested mileage in this is going to vary according to the individual.

It would be nicer if any of them had more specific data than winter or summer harvest (if we were lucky enough to know even that!) of course.

A rigorous survey examining the potential of 1) variations in the alkaloid content and composition of different local populations, strains or clones and 2) fluctuations based on season, time of day and environmental factors such as stress, would be of great benefit to the whole community but something like that would really need to occur in Oz rather than anywhere else.

With an upfront apologies for changing the topic further, a comment not needing any response but thought.

Will someone someday please look at obtusifolia roots and rootbark? I've been told they are hard to dig but berms can be shaped and then planted that aren't. Its just a thought.

[ 27. July 2005, 02:29: Message edited by: trout ]

[.dg]

"Mimosa ophthalmocentra rootbark? So far reported better than hostilis "

really? anyone to quote or references? better how? more alkys?

i'd be suprised if any crystal from mhrb had anything in it besides trace ionic sodium of one type of the other

its seems quite apearant to me that the brown or orange goo is alot less pure, what the impurities are i dont know, but i'd be suprised if the majority of mhrb had any extractable/noticable amounts of bufotine.

glass clear crystal is nearly tasteless compared to the orange, and the effects just as mind blowing. some people seem to think the orange takes them further, but it seems to just be heavier. when clear crystal is loaded at the same weight as the orange it looks like 3-4 times more.

everyone should be so lucky

[trucha]

The more pure the material the less smell it has.

Something that is ultrapure will have very faint and delicate floral bouquet.

Skatole is what most people mistake for DMT smell. High basification during the isolation destroys skatole.

If its present the N-methyl can cocrystallize with the dimethyl.

My comment on ophthalmocentra was a bit misleading.

To make it accurate: The only published analysis of this species reported substantially higher alkaloid levels than the only published analysis of Mimosa hostilis rootbark.

The pertinent papers:

Batista, Leõnia Maria & Reinaldo Nóbrega de Almeida (1997) Acta Farmaceutica Bonaerense 16 (2): 83-86. “Central Effects of the Constituents of Mimosa ophthalmocentra Mart. ex Benth.”

Batista, L.M. et al. (1999) Pharmaceutical Biology 37 (1): 50-53. “Isolation and Identification of Putative Hallucinogenic Constituents from the Roots of Mimosa ophthalmocentra.” (L.M. Batista, R.N. Almeida, E.V.L. da Cunha, M.S. da Silva & J.M. Barbosa Filho)

I'm curious if anyone out there has had success with oral mhrb and no maoi?

[ 30. July 2005, 16:50: Message edited by: trout ]

[folias]

Apparently Jayce Callaway has found an MAOI in hostilis...which he will be reporting on officially soon, or so I am told by Denis McKenna.

There are apparently some other mimosa species with a good 5meo content too...

Some people on aya.com have tried mimosa without maoi...without success and friends of mine...trout and ott are the only two reports I am aware of which have had it work!

Julian.

[Rev]

 

quote:

---

Will someone someday please look at obtusifolia roots and rootbark?

---

A FOM says with rootbark you always get crystals

[ 01. August 2005, 11:45: Message edited by: Rev ]

[trucha]

Who knows if the following is the case in those instances of course. Those sort of accounts do seem to be quite common now.

That said:

What has been encounterable was uniformly exceptionally finished but if it could be judged side by side with an orange chunk of waxy material that was synthetic or lump of acacia "resin", the same weight dose of Mimosa flakes always appeared much larger in volume.

Whenever encountering people use it, they always seemed to eyeball doses. More controlled adjustment of the dose to being equivalent would usually convince them of equivalent potency.

Maybe this is a factor in these reports?

A nice character was still persistently reported

The lack of petroleum solvent residue resulting from crude isolations and the lack of skatole due to the now-widespread knowledge of the benefits of high pH during isolation probably also affects the experiences some people have.

The lack of bufotenine would no doubt also be perceivable if anyone was used to Acacia.

On Mimosa I have only repeated what Aardvark & Ott have reported.

Aardvark and Ott and a handful of people I know of have reported success. Plenty of people have reported failures. Most times where enough dialogue occured failure to adhere to the prep and dose was determined to be the culprit. There does seem to be some exceptions.

I lack enough info to know myself as I presently have no interest in ingesting anything with the level of tannins in jurema.

It works great with an maoi in much lower amount but even that lower amount seems like more tannins than is really good to ingest.

I have no reason to doubt any of the people experiencing activity or experiencing lack of activity. I now know people in both camps who's opinions I value as much as my own.

I would bet that this issue gets resolved at some point though since there finally appears to be several people with ideas about why it works for them.

[ 01. August 2005, 06:51: Message edited by: trout ]

[trucha]

The N-methyl has been a common component in viridis, desmanthus and maidenii isolates that did not feature the same degree of niceness of character that is being described for mimosa.

[ 01. August 2005, 06:53: Message edited by: trout ]

[folias]

The MANY variables inherent in different mimosa root bark plant specimens would seem to be the reason for inconsistant reports with the root bark ingested orally!

Julian.

[trucha]

In potential, there could be variables within a plant, from plant to plant, from population to population, from season to season, perhaps even differing by health, age, environment or climate or showing diurnal fluctuations each day, but there are also variable in terms of different preps. In this case oral activity is said to require the use of cold neutral water, kneading beaten or blenderized rootbark and soaking for 30 minutes then straining with a press type coffee maker for a strainer. (And repeating) Check Ott for the exact details though.

And a 35 gram plus dose is what is recommended by Aardvark.

I wish I could answer this one way or another. My stomach does not like tannins or I would know something one way or the other.

[apothecary]

I finally managed to get some germinations of those Mimosa sp. seeds from BB, should know in about a week (how long till I can test for sensitivity?) or so whether they are hostilis or not.

There are about 10 seeds left, I have given 10-20 away already, and lost 3 or 4 to being up the coast while they were germing, but if they are indeed hostilis, I'll send them out.

It's a little late now that T is selling yet another awesome product on his damn awesome webstore, but I'm sure I can find someone who wants some free seed

[Torsten]

apoth - because of the variability and general lack of good seed it will be a long time before the hostilis seed market is saturated. this is a species we just can't have too many of.

[apothecary]

That's good to hear. I must say, this seed seems to be very vigorous.

Soaking in boiling hot water (straight from the kettle) and letting it sit in that water for 24 hours has only seen two so far that didn't sprout radicles!

Boy I hope these are hostilis, or this is gonna be one big anti climax

I wish I had some more money, I'd put myself down for a fair chunk of your seeds and make it my primary garden project...even the little seedlings seem to have a powerful presence about them.

[teonanacatl]

sorry im to slack to look at sab site T are u selling hostilis seed?? apoth i tried boiling, like new way better, check the wiki. i also now just nip a bit of the seed coat off with nail clippers, they germinate within hours.

[apothecary]

Oh I saw

Tried following it, seed coat on my seeds was definitely too slippery to nick!