Personal security on this website

[microscophile]

Hello people,

I've been lurking the shaman forums for a while and done a ton of quality reading, but I've only just registered. I'm concerned about potential security issues involved with participating on the site. Basically, my country has very strict drugs laws and I'd prefer there was no association whatsoever between my shaman profile and my real IP address & identity. Can anyone who uses TOR or proxies advise me as to whether these will function ok with this site, and whether these are the best utilities to protect myself? [i'm aware TOR users are banned immediately if they dick around / annoy people]

Do people take precautions like scrubbing metadata from images they post?

And finally, is the PM system secure? i.e. if I message someone will the conversation be archived?

Thanks in advance. I look forward to contributing some of my own awesomeness to the forums

[herbologist]

Keep it legal and you should have no issues

[PhoenixSon]

yep thats the thing when all you have in your backyard is some calea and sunopener the cops dont bother with happy high herbs there more interested in crack and meth!

[incognito]

a crack or meth dealer busted with a bunch of psychadelic 'erbs growing would cause quite a stir though.

basically if they wanna get u for them they will.

Edited June 9, 2011 by incognito

[qualia]

besides, afaik illegal activity talk on the forum is

a) condemned with the strongest of terms (UN speak lol)

b\) removed

so yer, keeping it all above boards usually the way to go,

edit: is there not an escape character sos i can type without getting ?

Edited June 9, 2011 by qualia

[ThunderIdeal]

as far as i know pm's have to be deleted by both parties. a series of pm's are grouped as a 'discussion' and if you haven't deleted the discussion, you can see if the other person has and it's common sense that you do the same.

i am pretty sure the admin has not made any claims about security of the pm system from law enforcement.

[mac]

noticed with facebook you have a option to use secure https with your account but i doubt encryption would help if someone was really up to no good

but yeah if ya keep things above board then you really dont have much to worry about, I found this place looking for legal & natural alternatives to prescription pain meds & found it sparked my interest in not only natives but also other ethnobotanical & medicinal plants & extracts

[microscophile]

Thanks for the info re. the PM's being saved & necessity for deletion. The rest didn't really help with my inquiry though.

A significant number of the discussions here include subjects which obviously cover methods for procuring banned substances, and much of the discussion centers on the use of illegal drugs, and for that reason I'd like to be anonymous. I don't intend to discuss obviously illegal behavior, but to say that police are more preoccupied with harder drugs is inadequate. There are very good reasons for being anonymous.

Help would be appreciated.

edited for clarity

Edited June 10, 2011 by microscophile

[tripsis]

If you're not going to discuss illegal behaviour, what's your concern?

[Psylo]

There is a recent thread from a moderator that discusses the use of TOR here, and that the only limitation is that if you start trolling you don't get a second chance, and will be booted. There was no mention of TOR limiting your access to information.

[microscophile]

* I meant I don't intend to explicitly discuss illegal behavior. I do intend to share information about plants that are illegal once harvested or if you intend to extract active compounds, and this is a problem. We know we tread a fine line regarding legality. Often, despite the 'keep it legal' rule though, discussion pertains to activities that are clearly illegal, whether explicitly stated or not. Call me paranoid, I just want help so that I can participate comfortably. Why is no-one offering helpful answers?

[microscophile]

Thanks psylodread. I checked that out. I think I'll just roll with tor

[Evil Genius]

Hi microscophile, welcome around. In regard to TOR, I dont seem to see the issue. Torstens thread about TOR pretty much says it all. http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=14946

Exif Data is a whole diffrent ballgame. I´d hope that people who make pics with their iphones are aware that in some cases, the picture also saves gprs data of the location it was shot at. But as self incrimination is not allowed here, that shouldnt be an issue anyway. Nevertheless it could be a good thing that you mentioned it. Some people just keep forgetting about that.

Why is no-one offering helpful answers?

Well, you just registered and your post implies that some of your contributions might be pretty much borderline. Maybe you would have gotten a more positive response if you´d been around here longer. You got to understand that our rules are stricter than the ones on other ethnobotanical boards. We really appreciate any positive input as long its within the rules so feel free to participate and enjoy your stay as long as you dont break any rules. But you gotta be aware of the fact that we will act very quickly if we feel like someone who uses TOR gets in conflict with our rules. bye Eg

Edited June 10, 2011 by Evil Genius

[Psylo]

I reckon a big deal is being made out of a questions thats very reasonable. It's the end-users choice if he wants some level of anonimity when participating in, or even browsing, sites that touch upon sensitive discussions. I for one will never visit this website at work, even without logging in. I just don't feel that the IT department or my managers need to be aware that I am interested in a site that openly and regularly discusses MDMA, Psychoactive Mushrooms, Marijuana, Salvia Divinorum, LSD, DMT and whatever else. The reality is that so many people are discussing illegal stuff here every day, and its stupid to try and ignore that fact. Some of you can try and dance around the perception that 'discussion of' and direct incrimination are unrelated, but that's crap, it's obvious what the lifestyle choices are of many members here, and the point remains that by visiting this site then the web-surfer must have a passing interest in the substances mentioned above, even if it is theoretical. If the OP wishes to take a more careful path than others then that's good for him, whatever makes him comfortable. I'm not reading anything in his contributions that suggests he plans to outright flaunt the incrimination rules any more or less than is already going on here.

Jesus wept, way to make the guy welcome.

[Torsten]

Given that publishing a paper on LSD use in psychotherapy can get you your visa to the USA cancelled I agree that people who want to keep their forum stuff anonymous should do so. The OP also mentioned that his country's laws are much stricter than here. If he was in japan then talking about damiana consumption would be illegal for example and would be something we would not restrict him on.

It would be good if some knowledgable folks could help out on the technical TOR stuff as I am sure these questions will be asked again [and next time we can tell them to UTSE ;) ]

As for PMs, they are deleted from the server once both parties have deleted them.

[Sheather]

His location says he's in Sydney... I'm afraid I can't help with the TOR stuff, was going to get into it but elected not to.

'fraid I can't really help in that respect.

Do people take precautions like scrubbing metadata from images they post?

Probably not. I'd think most people don't even know what metadata is, much less how to remove it.

[Torsten]

His location says he's in Sydney...

well, that's confusing

microscophile , are you referring to australia when you say 'my country'? are you aware this is an australian forum?

[Evil Genius]

I understand him like he means that the australian laws are very strict and therefore wants to reduce any possible electronical evidence. Maybe he´s worried because some australian laws even put drug literature under penalty and some crazy DA on a mission might consider the sab website in an internet explorer history as evidence. But on the other hand...what do i know?

Edited June 10, 2011 by Evil Genius

[microscophile]

Sorry that wasn't clear. I am in Sydney & I'm Australian but I intend to be a dual national. When I said my country I was referring to my background. Any association with drug culture would guarantee the dual nationality plan (and possibly even future visits) denied. Hence my security concerns.

That aside, Australia is relatively strict too; we have a very broad list of banned substances and drug policing is very effective here compared to many other countries (just look at street prices). Though we don't have brutal punishments, that would not be my concern. The slightest infraction will have significant ramifications for the average working man in Australia, especially as regards travel, and though I know very little about the relevance of online habits and the use of online behavior as evidence, I'm inclined to take precautions rather than fly blind.

If my laptop were stolen, for example, [shit happens all the time in the area I live] and I hadn't covered my tracks as regards internet usage, it'd take only a moderately tech savvy bastard to dig up my usage habits and blackmail me / or just share my secrets for the fuck of it. Inconsequential for him, huge problems for me.

I've been reminded that there is no such thing as security on the net, which is a pretty sound reason for the 'no self incrimination' rule here. To the extent that it can be followed, it helps everyone, but realistically sites like this are obviously controversial and not something you'd want your real identity associated with.

Despite deciding to use TOR I will be following the rule to a T, out of respect for a great website and because regardless of security measures, they are only ever precautions.

[mac]

will using TOR only protect you from websites identifying you ?, wouldn't there still be some record from your ISP what sites you visited

[Psylo]

I don't know much about TOR, but suspect there are other security issues unrelated to the sites you are visiting that contain questionable information but microscophile's caution is probably a good thing, even if it's a little bit over-cautious. I think that for the moment we are still enjoying personal privacy rights that would disallow law enforcement bodies to randomly scan person's web surfing habits without just cause. (I'm expecting someone to reply that this is wrong, and we do have something to be worried about). I think if you keep your nose clean, aren't dealing or publishing information that's in the law's eye to be a big issue, such as munitions manufacture, amphetamine production or kiddie porn, then you'll be sweet.

On the other hand, let's say the law is looking at a person under suspicion. I don't know if what mac says is correct, as I thought these proxie servers meant that your history, even to your ISP, will show that you have visited abcproxy.com, and the connection is made via them as a conduit. But what about if there was serious suspicion, and it was established that you have at some stage visited a particular site, can the data on a forum be supboena'd for review? It would only need for the forum user to have visited once, leaving their IP address, then every other post you have made under that user name can be used against you even if it's anonymous.

I don't even know how much these technical fraud investigating units can strip down your PC's information, but from the stories I have heard they might find incriminating evidence, even by routing your access.

Anyway, welcome aboard microscophile, you sound like you are a switched on guy. I'm a newbie here too and don't contribute much to the technical aspects of ethnobotany because much has been said before. Lots of projects on the to-do list once I pull my finger out. But there's a lot of good info and left-minded folks here, apart from the occasional argumentative ones, and if you choose to use TOP for your own peice of mind then go for it, you are aware of the rules that the moderators have explained elsewhere. Again, this really only affects a handful of bad apples so you'll be fine Im sure. Out of interest, which other country do you refer to ?

Here comes the thread hijack. To existing members and moderators mainly. Concerning the discussions, questions etc, is it reasonable to ask questions sourcing legally available solvents etc.

And another question, there seems to be an order in what can and cannot be discussed here with illegal stuff. Production, sourcing intention and/or intake of mushrooms, eggs and weed seems to go unmoderated, the psychedelics such as spice & diviner's sage seems like a grey zone and understandably gofast, cola & harry are a big no-no.

Edited June 11, 2011 by Psylo Dread

[AndyAmine.]

Be aware that using TOR isnt all sunshine and lollypops, it also brings plenty of its own security risks.

The main thing you have to ask your self is why would anyone want to take on the cost and risk of running a proxy or being a TOR host?

Sure there are lots of idealists out there that just want to help but using TOR also makes it VERY easy for the host to mine your data and as a result VERY interesting to organized crime and law enforcement so please be careful when using TOR to input private information like passwords, CC details, addresses, product orders, phone numbers etc.

Also when starting and using an 'anonymous' identity with a proxy service you must make sure that everything is done via a proxy and never from your home I.P., like registering an email account to use for registrations, viewing those emails, signing up to sites, forum posts etc, as TI said, it only takes one time to link you back to your home IP address and then it was all for naught.

You used to have to be pretty knowledgeable to set up TOR which meant the people using it knew what the trade offs were but now its just a matter of running an .exe file so a lot of people don't know about the risks.

Edited June 12, 2011 by AndyAmine.

[Alice]

Given that publishing a paper on LSD use in psychotherapy can get you your visa to the USA cancelled

 

I seem to remember you speaking about this a while back but can't for the life of me find the earlier post (yes I have UTSE). Do you remember what the previous thread was about so I can search for it? Or if this is a phanton memory could you elaborate please?

Edit: What I curious about is that you imply that the paper is the sole reason for the cancellation and that there were not other factors such as criminal record. Is this person a well know ethno figure that they recognised? Or did the US VISA people (or whatever they're called) do that thorough a background search on every visitor to their country? I'm not surprised that they refused entry (although it is a completely ridiculous overreaction), more interested in how they were made aware of the link between the academic and his/her paper.

Edited June 12, 2011 by Alice

[shortly]

I believe you might be referring to Andrew Feldmar a Canadian psychotherapist who got booted back to Canada after being entertained buy the FBI for a few days over an paper he authored.

And i also vaguely recall it being in a tread someplace but cant for the life of me remember where.

Edited June 12, 2011 by shortly

[Evil Genius]

And another question, there seems to be an order in what can and cannot be discussed here with illegal stuff. Production, sourcing intention and/or intake of mushrooms, eggs and weed seems to go unmoderated, the psychedelics such as spice & diviner's sage seems like a grey zone and understandably gofast, cola & harry are a big no-no.

Hi Psylo Dread, its a very important part of our rules that self incrimination is not going to happen here. We are strongly going against any cactus potency talk that is about to start in the cactus forum. Im not very familiar with the australian laws on mushrooms but i´d assume its illegal to ingest em so its definately against the rules to write a trip report. In my eyes, Potency talks in the shroom forum arent as bad as in the cactus forum as cacti are still legal in some states and people here want it to stay that way. Im sure naja can get you a more detailed info about whats allowed in the shroom forum and what not because he knows the situation better. Kronik is still legal in most parts of the world but i assume this is going to change very rapidly. As soon as its legal status changes, we will be going against it. As long as your not in a country where its banned, its ok to write about it. Self incrimination doesnt apply in this case. Same for salvia. There are very few countries its still legal and people from those countries can post info or pics about it i think. Thats why its important for us that our members enclude their home country. Talking about weed consumption is against the rules but there are many occasions when people write about it as Its just a very frequent drug. Im sure our moderators will moderate everything that goes into the self incrimination direction when or if they come across it. That there are still some posts left in which its mentioned is probably because moderators are still humans what always leaves the room for one or two posts that are slipping through. But that doesnt make it legal so i can only encourage everyone who comes across a post that includes self incrimination to report it.

I dont know about the legal status of most solvents in australia but im sure Torsten or the chemical stuff are very experienced about that. If you are in doubt, just ask em. They are very supportive when dealing with unclear situations.

bye Eg

Edited June 16, 2011 by Evil Genius