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ubza_1234

omg amanita

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mutant: thats the strange part, it was the opposite. When i had the tg milk extract it was kinda slightly compareable to normal shrooms in the sence that it gave strong euphoria and and mild visuals. This compared to the 7.5g of dry eaten material, i felt drunk. There is no ther way to explain it but drunk. No visuals, not particularly euphoric, just felt like i drank half a bottle of vodka in the space of about 2 hours. (as in, the onset and peak was the same as if i had slowly drunk half a bottle, maybe a lil more of vodka in the space of 2 hours) unlike the 5g milk extract, at the end of the experience, i felt voilent nausea that felt the same as if i had drunk WAY too much. I'v had salvia before, but mentally, 7.5g was purely a drunk feeling. With nausea at the tail end of it.

As i said before, the difference between 7.5g and 5g were not simply stronger effects. They were completely different effects. One was psycodelic and fun, one was drunk. There was no loosing contact with my mind and body, just drunk at the high dose. Nothing more. It sucked lol i can imagine that those effects however, may come with the milk extract but at this stage i simply dont know. I'll get back to you in a few weeks on that one ;)

edit: and as for beig hasty, yes i was most deffinitely. However my first experiences was so positive that i thought a lil more would be that, plus more! Not the case. I think working with this lower dose would be best for now. Untill i got a handle on what amanitas are all about.

Not sure if this has been mentioned before but i read recently Herb of immortality

From page 50 onwards the production of ancient "wine" via grapejuice and A.M. mycelium is described. Emphasis lies on the fact of diluting the wine with water

<<If Amanita Muscaria were really the source of the ancient wine, an extract would have to be capable of being diluted with water in a large ratio. To test this, ½ oz. of dried Amanita Muscaria specimens was extracted with 16-oz. grapejuice; the extraction lasted 8 hours. The straight extract was sipped and produced the usual effects; the amount consumed being about 4 oz. Then approximately 1 oz. extract was diluted with approximately 3-oz. water; this actually tasted better than the straight extract. Several ounces of the extract were consumed diluted in various ratios of 2 to 6 water to 1 of extract. To my

great surprise, the addition of the water actually made a great difference in the effect. The usual Amanita Muscaria effects became instead purely psychedelic, very similar to Psilocybin or LSD!. This intoxication was much more pleasant than that produced by the straight

extract; the dilution also seemed to increase the potency, exactly the opposite of every other drug extract on the planet, where dilution invariably leads to a weaker solution. Nothing in my years of researching Amanita Muscaria was as surprising to me as this transformation! It came completely unexpected and was a very enlightening experience. This experiment was repeated several more times with exactly the same result. The ancient emphasis on dilution was really a practical application of chemistry. I feel fairly confident in stating that Amanita Muscaria really was the source of at least some of the ancient wines.

In trying to understand this transformation, I have developed a theory; Muscimol is a very polar molecule, I believe the oppositely charged ends link up

and form long chains or other structures, I also believe these chains are released by the dried specimen into solution. Water is also a polar molecule and the sudden addition of a large amount of water breaks these chains into individual units of Muscimol dissolved in water. The long chains having the effects of the

Amanita Muscaria and the primary extract; while the dissolved individual Muscimol units having instead a psychedelic effect. This would explain the

apparent increase in potency of the diluted solution. It is only a theory; but it is the best I can come up with, using only observed effects, a chemical structure diagram of Muscimol and reasoning. This Amanita wine, after the addition of the water, was much more pleasant to me than anything alcoholic. In the ancient world this ability to be diluted and yet become stronger, would be another sign of divinity.>>>

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wow.. Thats awesome stuff there satyr. Thats how i felt, the 5g of amanita felt finda like medium dose of psilocybin mushies but more euphoria and sence of well being. To real confusion or anything. No drunken feeling. Thanks alot. I may need to give that a try; measuring a 5g dose and mixing it with maybe 1L of liquid. Maybe juice or even soft drink, anything with a strong enough flavour to mask the taste of mushrooms. Or maybe a heap of soup? Were the flavour may be a good thing? I'm all down for keeping my psychadelic journies as easy, simple, bearable and enjoyable as possible :D

Edited by ubza_1234

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I think uzba has hit gold with that recipe.

You can take evry last Amanita, spore or not and they'll still fruit as well as the year before.

Milks is good for some neurological side effects.

The garlic is chemical safety measure also.

Cheese is the only thing missing : ) Which further compliments the taste.

It is common to have greater, more postitive experiences with less of any drug.

Diluting a small amount in water, then adding more water.. Im certain there's a magic!

Another really nice method,

is just to boil your favourite whole, live/fresh shroom in water and then drink it.

Works just aswell when they're frozen in brandy-for up to a couple of years later.

Ulitmately, I think every powerful allie affords the full range of possible experience- high, low here or there doesn't matter. And will never be truly quantitfied. Lets enjoy the mystery!

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Why would anyone eat amanitas to get a psilocybin high?? :rolleyes:

low doses , mid doses, high doses.

different experiences. But nothing particularly reminiscent of LSD/psylocybin trips, unless in a religious or otherwise philosophical way

Some times [mid doses] there can be some effects that remind of a psylocybin or acid trip. [but heck some beers and pot can do that too!!]

f.e. Colours and lights perceived more intensely, space perceived a bit altered, euphoric, happy and content state, even an instant of apocalypsis is rarely noticed . This is a generous mid dose.

I am not so sure about ambrosia society, they seem to advertise amanita too much. And you know they only reason they make the wine is they cant find wild amanitas.

Wine or anything alcoholic would not compliment the psychedelic side of amanitas, but rather the social, euphoric side of them . I have taken mid doses over 20-25 times, always socially, most of the times I drank alcohol along and pot - but people are different. In even smaller doses it's still euphoric or tonic but barely noticeable.

moreover, the effects comes more intensely if you drink thick solution as opposed to dilluted. I am talking about the normal tea and not this ambrosia wine these guys are making

Mid doses also depend a lot on setting. If you're busy and happy they might reach the level of empathy [reminiscent of mdma] , but if you're at a dull situation, or at a wrong place/time, then nothing might be happening, or the sadness might be even enhanced.

amanita mid doses are themselves something of a good quality amplifier

but if you're asking for an intense euphoric high, this is not it. Nor psylocybin mushrooms for that matter, not for long anyhow...

Edited by mutant

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i know my experiences are VERY limited, and mutant it sounds like you have a pretty good number of experiences under your belt so you should know what your talking about. What are some of your methods of ingestion? I know i only have two experiences, but the experiences wer so vastly different that i'm sure the method of extraction is important. Its gotta be. I know i upped the dose, but at no moment did the first experience ever have the slightest similarity to the second, except perhaps some dizzyness.

So, have you mucked around with your extraction method? :D very interested on your reply :)

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also wine not complementing it? The second time it felt like the same effect!?!?!?

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ubza, you forget, mutant has the definitive answer on everything. So no you didn't get the same effect, it doesn't complement it at all, what you experienced MUST have been placebo... because mutant is right :P

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Heya Ubza,

You mentioned that you threw up sprite the second time around. Did you drink fizzy drinks the first time as well?

I'm not an Amanita aficionado, have only had a few low dose experiences - keen to try a breakthrough dose one day, but the right time hasn't come yet. Just saying that to preface the fact that what I'm saying is really just based on reading I've done.

Anyway, there are a number of places I've come across the mantra "Don't drink carbonated drinks in conjunction with Amanita". The reasoning behind it is that the carbonated drink can somehow convert the Muscimol back into Ibotenic Acid which can cause nausea. A good friend of mine with a chemistry PhD thought this was a bit of a crackpot theory but there's a number of experiential reports that claim it's not a good combo. Hang on, I'll see if I can find a link...

... here you go. Very bottom of the page is one example.

http://www.ambrosiasociety.org/preparing_the_sacrament.html

Anyone here got first hand experience?

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raba you're the man! he's right. what he said.

carbonated drinks are supposed to convert a portion of muscimole back to ibotenic acid.

now ibotenic acid can be 5 times [or so] less potent than muscimole and is far more toxic and nauseating.

ubza, like I said earlier the tek is pretty simple

Slice and dry the picked material as you would do with any edible mushrooms, but with heat. when dried , I break to smaller pieces and try to expose a couple of days in the direct sun - during those days I regularly find flies in there! Than homogenise even more by hand or powderising, I prefer by hand. I check them a bit for being totally dry and then store.

I have made the tea by boiling the material, and by bringing to boil and letting the material sit for , say , 10 mins. I don't think much is lost by boiling, but I think making tea might be a tid bit stronger, i am not really sure. Still, boiling a bit more, might convert any unconverted ibotenic acid, so it might be better to start by boiling it for 2 mins and let sit.

In any case, you know the goodies are all in the tea when you taste a mushroom piece and it's tasteless. If it's got some flavour, there are still goodies in the mushrooms!

about wine:

what I meant is I have used amanitas & alcohol together quite a few times. Actually I have drank beer some of them if not all and never got sick [but I am used to alcohol, amanita tea, their combo and eating wild mushrooms in general, also my experience comes from more or less the same amanita strain from the same area plus a couple pantherina experiences]. Also I start drinking usually after the 3-4 hours of amanita effects are gone.

So what I meant was amanita + alcohol in my experience will not enhance any [if any] psychedelic amanita effects at this dose, but rather the sedative euphoric and social element of it.

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i am keen to investigate the sedative/euphoric effects of amanita, and with alcohol in combination. i am more interested in this than the psychedelic effects, if there are any. this is what draws me to this organism, as opposed to the psilocybes.

all the encyclopedia of psychoactive plants has to say about the combination is that "the schnapps (with amanita macerated in it) is much more intoxicating than the ordinary schnapps". this intrigues me. though i hope he doesnt mean intoxicating in the traditional sense, ie poisoning. because i find alcohol is usuaully poisoning enough...

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Don't get this wrong, amanitas CAN bring full-on 'psychedelic effects', of a dissociative/dream-state type, in breakthrough doses.

in general I have always advised AGAINST the combo: mid dose amanita and then alcohol, despite me doing it several times without problems, because it certainly feels like something not for every one and it is probably not healthy at all.

In my opinion, this combination [not simultaneously but alcohol following the amanita], would suit better those who drink alcohol socially and not those that find alcohol consumption poisoning.

Amanita alone [in low-mid and mid doses] can be interesting for those that are looking for an alcohol replacement, but like always with amanitas this is not for the hasty , and you have to take great care dosage wise.

combos:

Alcohol and smoking datura or hyoscyamus bring alcohol's "arsis of inhibition" in a new level, in a vein of not caring, perhaps a somewhat 'evil' not caring feeling.

Alcohol and amanitas can do that too, but in the vein of a more euphoric, caring high, [caring, but not too much!] and this without the blurry/noisy head of alcohol alone. Note that amanitas promote a more clear head but more of a body high along with alcohol, so equilibrium [call me stumbling and walking like a drank] will be altered and sedation will be greater than with alcohol alone, especially towards the tail end of amanita effects. Take care with all these because it feels pretty easy to sleep or collapse unexpectedly! These drugs seem to act in similar centres in the brain [cannabis too] and the cumulative effects are heavier

in general there are lots of things one should be careful with, while on amanitas.

Driving, for example doesn't feel very safe.

Take care, and remember there is a good reason this common mushroom is not drank by more people with success.

I'm happy to answer more questions

PS: still haven't read what raetsch says about amanitas in his encyclopedia, I have the book for only some weeks and haven't read much of it. should be interesting!

Edited by mutant
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Mutant, I disagree with almost everything you have to say but your knowledge of the Amanita Muscaria mushroom is fantastic! Great to have your perspective and advice on this one!

:worship:

Edited by The Dude

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mutant, the encyclopedia is very interesting and definitely a compulsory addition to the plant book collection for the avid enthusiast. however a lot of it is very out of date (was written in 1998 and subsequent revisions do not fully correct a lot of things), for example it lists nymphaea caerulea as being extremely rare. it also perpetuates a lot of the wasson/soma garbage (i think it's garbage anyway...) so watch out for that.

as for the MOA of amanita, i think that muscimol is, like alcohol, a GABA agonist. so a combination could prove strong. i'm sure driving on such a drug is extremely unsafe, if it is indeed similar to alcohol. i once tried to drive whilst drunk (only down a friend's driveway in the country, not on a road!) and it was exceedingly difficult, even at speeds of under 40km/h. i was pretty drunk though..., :unsure:

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for what it's worth I think McKenna's thesis on Soma is garbage, not Wasson's.

Edited by mutant

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for what it's worth I think McKenna's thesis on Soma is garbage, not Wasson's.

Care to elaborate? I didn't think McKenna had a specific thesis on the vedic Soma, other than he was skeptical that amanita could deliver a powerful enough psychedelic experience to be worthy of such attention. He communicated this concern to Wasson, and Wasson admitted that he never had a powerful experience on Amanita. I recall McKenna giving weight to the research of Flattery and Schwartz in "Haoma and Harmaline: The Botanical Identity of the Sacred Hallucinogen "Soma" and Its Legacy in Religion, Language, and Middle Eastern Folklore", where it is proposed soma/haoma is a syrian rue preparation. My view is that soma was probably a combination of syrian rue and mushrooms, maybe even both amanita and psilocybe species combined.

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Care to elaborate?

Sure

amanita muscaria can provide a different type of psychelia and a very powerful and impressive experience.

mc kenna was a tryptamine obsessive and chauvinist that never cared/ bothered/ wanted to really explore amanitas - or was scared away from them - his chapter on the subject in Food of the gods is crap. I think he says he tried them only twice [!!] with no real effect other from some stomach discomfort or something.

This chapter is a brilliant example of McKenna's messianism about 'the other' , especially for someone with experience with the mushroom.

even if soma was not amanitas after all - [we'll probably never know for sure, but amanitas sure match the best if you look at it objectively], his reasoning on the superiority of classic psychedelics and especially tryptamines over amanitas is very indicative of this new school of thought.

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...It's cuz tryptamines are quite clearly teh winner! :P

Different strokes, different folks, tryptamines were his thing. I'm gonna start bagging on John Lilly for being obsessed with his ketamine experiments, and now all these lilly-ites are believers in entities! Goddamn psychedelic theists! find em everywhere from classics to dissos (stop blaming the drugs man).

I can't believe they all believe their deeply profound (trans)personal experiences as some kid of evidence of the "other", and then with this newfound realisation of the nature of the cosmos they get all messiah-like and holier than thou as they communicate this concept to others that have been there and forgot but are waiting for a reminder, and then as the truth is RE-cognised they are reminded of their collective vision of the truth, poor brainwashed idiots. :P

The thing with poetry is that you don't believe in it, you know it's true, it just took the right words to remind you. The truth is always there, hidden by everything else one believes in; believers fall for the illusion, seekers seek to remove illusory obstacles to truth, that's why they can see.

Edited by The Dude
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They are a magical mushroom...

Choose which ride you want to take.... Prepare them properly and you will be surprised where you go.

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[pity, I had written a much bigger post, but the fucking computer crashed]]

I never blamed no drugs, I even defend datura, only opiate I don't defend.

I might be more 'compatible' with dissos from most people, but this has nothing to do with my following argueing.

You're spot on about lilly's messianism, he was being a loony for some time too.

but there's a difference my friend

first, during or previously to his messianic tank/K obsession period, he had abused lsd too.

second, and this is the most important point, lilly "came back" and admitted he was being paranoid for some time. Maybe that's why he talked to dolphins and not elves or some other non-existing creature next in his life. Or at least he tried to.

then there's the history, ethnobotany and actual effects of these two different classes.

Which is the drug most linked with direct contact to god, religious-like feelings apocalypsies, entheogenesis, grand ideas? The classics

Which drug can be most abused without being toxic in the normal sense with their effects intensity increasing seemingly for ever? The classics

lets see the effects of them

psychedelics are all about enhancement. take X dose, a normal object has you smiling and admiring it for its beauty. take more and it will swirl. its all about enhancement. And you remember lots of it, recollection is excellent and that's part of why they're so good teachers.

dissos, on the other hand, apart from virtually not existing so much in the natural world and not having much recorded history [salvia and amanitas are the exceptions and the only ones I have experienced actually] are all about dissociation and subtraction in bigger doses. take a normal dose and you start feeling like a bit separated from your body. take more and more links are blocked. like visionary aneasthesia. you might not be able to stand in this stage. take more and you'll probably remember few. Recollection is poor as dosage goes up, probably part of the reason they are not so 'successful' as teachers. maybe they're not intended as teachers in the ==classic psych== sense ;)

I bet you that if recollection was as good and intense as with classics, there would be a hell more disso-psycho-theists!!

then again, they're so much different overall that the comparison is more likely to confuse than answer questions.

Some more advice, rambling and food for thought on amanita preps, for some guy watching from another continent , where ingestion of amanitas is legal, a dude that said he's not succeeding much with them.

1. is this strain you're testing emetic and with lots of sideeffects? Did you dry them with enough heat / sliced them enough before? consider drying them with more heat and/or cooking/boiling more before ingestion. Consider trying to get another strain of them - maybe from another type of forest. Consider [only for the sane!] very carefully exploring pantherinas.

2. Try to get to know the mid dose. You should be able to recognise a weird stimulating comeup of varied intensity followed by a euphoria followed by a pleasant clear-headed sedation. Low and mid doses are quite appetite stimulant. IMO it's not a good idea to fast or have an empty stomach. Also, even mid doses, sometimes seem to do little, unless some kind of action occurs. I like the social thing kind of action, and amanita mid dose always has me wanting to be with someone. Oh, here's an example.

he sat and started drinked our teas watcing a film. it was 2 hours. By the last minutes of the film, we where not feeling a fucking thing. As soon as the film ended and we talked and interacted, it started working. As soon as we lit a joint, it started for real!

3. Break through doses. Have a sitter. Prepare yrself with the idea of separating from your body, letting go, even 'dieing' and ego-loosing. It's a good idea to try and find a sweet spot in the dose range for the first breakthrough, as it seems it can be somewhat controlable. But maybe finding the spot is not easy, so HAVE A SITTER!

Keep it up psychonauts!

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wow i thought my posts were long...and it was going to be even longer??

just kidding mutant, i find your posts very useful. still no other people's info on smoking amanita though? maybe i missed it.

so do you think the emetic/side effect version (sounds like its more muscarinic than gabaergic..) is better or worse, mutant? i am guessing worse.

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i have smoked it to minimal effect. I kand kinda feel something and when its smoked with weed it is slightly more noticable, but nothing that makes me say, "hey, what you put in this joint???"

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Do people still believe it has parasympathetic effects?

I like dreamy over dark and edgey now days :)

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smoked some, felt violently ill, threw up, fell asleep very easily after that.

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I don't know, it was a few years ago now. I just had a baggie full of dried amanita skins powdered up (possibly not as dry as they could've been) and smoked a couple pipes of that. Pretty quickly I felt some really violent nausea, after chucking my guts up felt a nice sedating stone , i was guessing this could be what the whole death/rebirth trip was about cuz i felt like i could've been dying then after throwing up felt a nice buzz and floated off to sleep immediately.

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