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Magicdirt

Who is profiting from "legal" incence blends

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I speak in allegories and riddles half the time trying to stimulate some debate on a subject, it's only natural that some drama will come of it from time to time.

Debate and discussion are good things, sometimes some good can come from it.

The point I was trying to make about the spirit of Mary Jane.

Mary jane belongs to the earth and the people of the earth, not some corporation. the same as all plants , they're part of an eco system that has evolved with humanity and now that evolution has stopped because of commercial interests.

Some of the first settlers in this country were Chinese hemp growers and along with their highly valued fibre strains of marijuana they brought medicinal strains that were at the time amongst the worlds finest natural bred strains of smoking marijuana in the world.

When I was a kid these strains had acclimatised and proliferated to the point where they were a problematic weed acclimatised to local conditions.

In the late sixties to the early eighties these plants were hybridised with Jamaican, African and Hawaiian strains, and these strains were (almost) undoubtedly the best pot in the world. Some of these plants would grow to well over 20 feet in 1 year.

This belonged to us all and it was part of our culture, taken for granted, in some places marijuana was worth less than tobacco.

Then came the hydro movement and all those acclimatised strains disappeared almost overnight .

Now with all this imported gear that is not even pot, where does it end ?

Mary Jane was ours ( and we fucken busted arses for her) and now she is becoming the property of a foreign corporation on our soil.

When I talk about the spirit of Mary Jane I also talk of the spirit of humanity, are we free or does a corporate government own us all ?

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Fully understanding why this question was ignored and negatised (I honestly wanted to know but it some how became a biast drunken rant)

Was Ray from HHH ever prosecuted for selling synthetic cannabinoids?

and who runs the beehive collective? I probly shouldnt have commented on there insence as I dont know whats in it (however I would feel a little disapointed if a coroboree member was cashing in on a synth and not informing the user of what they were taking) so for that I apologise

I feel quite strongly about these products as ive personally had to hold a friend while they suffered adverse physical reactions flushing, rapid heart beat, vomiting, sweating, pressure inside there head making them belive they were having a stroke! and I know he wasnt having a panic attack or just "greening out" as he wasnt the only one who tried it that day and reacted badly he was just the most severe evryone flushed and a few vomited!

I dont believe synthetic canabinoids should be illegal to research but I do believe they should be labelled and shouldnt be available online or at festivals for any kid to pick up and try out pots just a lot safer id prefer it stayed that way. over the years Ive wittnessed a lot of people smoke pot for the fisrt time id say ive seen 10 or so people react badly in a psychological way and maybe even have a spew however of the 8 or so people Ive seen smoke incence blends ive seen 3 unpleasnt physical reactions just doing the math those percentages dont look good.

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Amazonian, when Hofmann isolated psilocin from shrooms and gave it in a capsule to Maria Sabina she was amazed and said that he had captured the spirit of the mushroom. I think if a revered shaman feels the molecule is identical to the plant spirit then that should be good enough for use gringos who are merely emulating their culture.

Mind you, let's not confuse single synthetic substances with complex mixtures as are present in plants. eg, harmaline certainly lacks a lot of the power that the aya vine has, but that's not because of the spirit, rather because the aya vine contains a shitload of other compounds that have very different effects to harmaline.

In pot there are a hundred or more cannabinoids and just because THC is the best know and most prevalent doesn't mean it is the most important. The synthetic cannabinoids do not emulate all these other constituents - for better or worse. My partner can't smoke pot anymore because after years of smoking he developed severe anxiety from and to it. However he has no problems smoking some of the synthetics. Others find that the synthetics don't produce the memory problems or brain fog that pot does and hence fits into their normal lives as a weekend escape that doesn't cloud the rest of the week. So the absence of these other ingredients isn't always a bad thing!!

I have a few friends in the overseas 'incense' industry and for the most part they are just hippies and ex-ethnobotany suppliers who found something to make a bit of money on [especially since authorities have clamped down on ethnobotany products in many countries]. There are no huge corporations and there is certainly no government conspiracy. in fact governments around the world are very quickly waking up to these products and passing new laws. And that's also where the answers to some of lofty's questions lie:

1) As laws are passed the chemists make new molecules that evade the laws. As these are different in various countries there are also vastly different products on the market. If the name of the active constituent was on the packet it would almost certainly be scheduled in a fraction of the time it currently takes for law enforcement to catch up. Many of the incenses these days state 'flavours and other compounds' to alert the users that the product is not natural. however, I think there is a bit of a problem with this. Most manufacturers think that pretty much all users know that the product is based on synths. But that is not so. I mean, I find it hard to believe how anyone could not realise, but apparently is is quite common.

2) The reason why the packets say 'not for human consumption' is not a scam to save the manufacturers from liability [although it probably has that effect to some degree]. the main reason is because the USA drug analogs law states that a substance is only an illegal analog if it is closely related to the scheduled substance AND is intended for human consumption. ie, in the USA you can sell drug analogs as long as they are clearly not intended to be consumed. That is why mephedrone is sold as bath salts, methylone as plant food, and cannabinoids as incense.

I also don't understand why so many people get upset about the availability of cannabinoids. Firstly, they won't be around for long as the authorities are hot on their tail. And secondly, they provide a great alternative for people who are subject to drug testing such as miners, defence, and a huge number of other people who regularly have their privacy invaded by the state and employers.

The other good thing about these products is that via their existence I have seen more people get off cannabis than on. The intriguing thing is that once you go from pot to incense most people can stop at will. I think that's one of the reasons Ray likes it so much, cos that's exactly what it did for him.

I reckon make the most of it while they are available as they certainly won't be for long. And if you don't like them then maybe don't ruin it for everyone else. The current situation is highly unusual for australia, so enjoy it while it lasts.

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very interesting thread.

there are so many things to say, and i'm too ADHD to remember..

i am quite young and unlearned (22, uni drop out)

my gf is a few years younger than me, and she has a close friend who is 16, that friend introduced her to "kronic", i'm really not interested in it, when it's more expensive than the real stuff, and it's not the real stuff..

my mother is a nurse and for years she worked in a public hospital in probably the 70's/80's, she saw how pharma medicine was over prescribed, so she raised us with homeopathics, and advised us against western medicine, and i agree with her outlook, it's insane what people put into there bodies every day, and i've become one of those people, after years of suffering chronic pain, i've succumb to pain killers, excluding the last 6 months, in the last decade i'd taken less than 10 paracetamol tablets, in the last 6 months i'd quickly moved from taking up to 8 paracetamol and 8 ibuprofen a day, to taking up to 6 over the counter codeine a day, to just this week getting a prescription for tramadol, which i've taken for the first time tonight, and the pain is still fucking here, right now, i see a chiro, get acupuncture, massage, etc etc.. i wish i didn't have to take these medicines, but fuck i dunno if anyway can relate to chronic pain, it's so exhausting, at times i want to die..

unfortunately weed never had a pain numbing effect on me, quite the opposite, (also never worked as a sedative for my insomnia, quite the opposite..) i started using when i was 20, to help with depression, but it was really life changing and now i subscribe to altered states. there's so much more i could talk about, but unrelated to OP.

everyone knows the hypocrisy with this shit, pharma making billions, weed is safer than legal medicines and legal alcohol and tobacco, plants that have been used by certain cultures for spiritual and healing purposes for thousands of years are illegal, blah blah, it pisses me off as i'm sure it angers many on here.

these factors make me reserved when it comes to synthetic substances, i dont really trust something so unnatural, yeah it might not be as bad as meth, but it's not like we have a complete understanding of how organic substances work and how they affect our bodies and how chemical substances affect our body, what we do know is that people have lived healthily for thousands of years using certain organic substances that have benefited their lives while western medicine and all these new chemical compounds are relativity unknown.

yeah there are some benefits to these new legal weed substitutes as stated in previous posts, but i do agree with the OP, and drug culture among teenagers is fucking crazy, and now there's one more thing they can easily obtain and overuse, maybe if they substitute legal weed for alcohol or speed or what ever else they might take then i can say i think it's a good thing, but mainly what i disagree with is the fact that there has to be a synthetic substandard version of something so harmless in comparison to the likes of alcohol, tobacco and pharma products, so people have to turn to this substandard shit to evade drug tests or because it's all that's available to them or for what ever reason, it's fucking ridiculous.

i just started a job last week, had to do a drug test on thursday, probably the 10th i've had to do in my life, it's so demeaning, and such an invasion of privacy, some fucking society we live in, and yeah i'm a corporate puppet too, though i like to think that i'm an activist in some regards, like faking drug tests, though the one i did on thursday had complications, my first sample was discarded for being slightly under temp. the lady said to stay in the building and wait a bit before trying again, but i had to go home to get another sample from my friend who was at my house, i mean how fucking demeaning that i have to resort to handling someone else's urine in order to gain employment, i could be stoned at work and still peform better than half the cunts at these shit holes, not that i do, because drugs dont control my life because there's simply not just a stereotype drug user and people who are against drugs are imbeciles.. fucking pisses me off. the lady went off at me for leaving the building saying it's against protocol and people use different samples from their own, which i was doing, i played the fool and passed the second test, fuckers.

sorry for hijacking this thread, bad pain day.

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My take on what a plant spirit is, is taken quite literally from the original alchemical definition of what a spirit is.

That is basically the essence of something with everything else removed.

If the "spirit" or essence of something is extracted from a plant then that's what it is, but if it comes from a synthetic chemical process it technically cannot be the spirit of the plant .

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My take on what a plant spirit is, is taken quite literally from the original alchemical definition of what a spirit is.

 

The alchemical definition of the plant spirit is actually just the volatiles [vapours and essential oils]. The volatile oils in pot are not active, so I think you are a little confused on this matter.

If you are using the alchemical definition of spirit [not plant spirit] then things get even more confusing as the alchemist believes that all matter has spirit, especially if created by an alchemist. So an operator who makes a product instills it with his spirit in the process of creating it.

If you're going to justify random statements with belief systems then please make sure you have these correct at least ;)

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I speak in allegories and riddles half the time trying to stimulate some debate on a subject, it's only natural that some drama will come of it from time to time.

Debate and discussion are good things, sometimes some good can come from it.

 

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The alchemical definition of the plant spirit is actually just the volatiles [vapours and essential oils]. The volatile oils in pot are not active, so I think you are a little confused on this matter.

If you are using the alchemical definition of spirit [not plant spirit] then things get even more confusing as the alchemist believes that all matter has spirit, especially if created by an alchemist. So an operator who makes a product instills it with his spirit in the process of creating it.

If you're going to justify random statements with belief systems then please make sure you have these correct at least ;)

 

I think you are getting confused and taking things out of context.

My statements were pertaining to the spirit of Mary Jane, if the matter is concocted in lab then that spirit cannot be that of Mary Jane.

If a man makes matter and instils it with his own spirit, then how can that be the spirit of Mary Jane ?

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Oh for sure, the chemists spirit is instilled in their product; the spirit of a plant is instilled in their product too, I think that was the whole point that synthetic cannibinoids no longer carry the spirit of the plant regardless of similarity (even if you could synthetically create an exact replica of the cannibinoid profile of a certain strain, it will be derived without the plant spirits agency; it will be merely an imitation).

Also, I'm a bit new to alchemy but it is my understanding that although they use chemistry and metallurgy (they also employ art and sculpture and architecture and potentially all other forms of expression), the transformation or distillation of the essence or seed of the material (being immaterial) is as much a metaphor for personal transformation or personal purification -from base metals to the magical luster of gold- as it is any kind of physical process; I think it is the union of this duality that alchemists strive for, where spiritual matters are transformed via material means and where spiritual means have an affect on matter.

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My statements were pertaining to the spirit of Mary Jane, if the matter is concocted in lab then that spirit cannot be that of Mary Jane.

If a man makes matter and instils it with his own spirit, then how can that be the spirit of Mary Jane ?

 

Then why does it matter? You are the only one comparing synthetic cananbinoids to pot on a spirit basis. I am pretty sure none of the incense products have a claim on the bag that says 'this product aims to include the spirit of cannabis'. In fact, most of the products don't even claim to be like cannabis at all. Seems a bit futile picking two items that are unmatched by your own standards and then denouncing them for being unmatched :scratchhead:

Let me use a different analogy where spirit doesn't come into it. MDMA and methylone. Most people who use methylone are well aware that it is not exactly like MDMA, but they like methylone for what it is anyway. It's only high and mighty rollers who denounce methylone for being inferior.

Until we see perfectly shaped buds soaked in synthetic cannabinoids I can't see how anyone can mistake one for the other and hence anyone making the comparison makes it because they want to highlight differences. maybe the people who enjoy synthetic cannabinoids like the differences! They might even like consuming something that is not being messed around by a spirit ;)

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asdas

Edited by Teljkon
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Ok Torsten I'll be sure to run any other thoughts past you before I post them.

If they don't fit your perspective I'll be sure to censor them appropriately.

I compared the two because the synthetic shit is being used for the same purpose or as a replacement for pot. A fair point pertaining the topic in question I thought.

I don't know if I've offended your sense of consumerism or you've taken issue with me for standing up for myself when PD made ridicule of my opinions, but I don't normally see you get on someone’s case like this. You seem to gain pleasure from ridiculing my opinions.

Good for you Torsten if it makes you feel empowered.

If you want a censored forum where your opinion reigns supreme, I will accept that and bow out.

I should be spending more time with the spirits dear to me anyway.

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The point I was trying to make about the spirit of Mary Jane.

Mary jane belongs to the earth and the people of the earth, not some corporation. the same as all plants , they're part of an eco system that has evolved with humanity and now that evolution has stopped because of commercial interests.

 

If you think our evolution has stopped, then you are highly mistaken, my friend. Our evolution is happening at its most rapid pace in our entire existence on earth. You like to talk about the spirit of Mary Jane as if to say it is the only thing with spirit, just because its a drug that gets you high. People also have this assumption in general about psychedelics, that one 'connects' with a spirit. EVERYTHING is a spirit, and not just one spirit, but sometimes thousands and thousands of spirits that make up the one plant, as is the case with marijuana. Its not just one spirit floating around, that once smoked, imparts wisdom and knowledge on the user. I think you need to develop a better connection and relationship to this 'spirit' also if you think that strains are getting worse and nothing was as good as 'that time when i was in my prime, smoking 'clean' shit from the sixties and getting high with my best friends and having a blast', sounds like you were more hooked on the fact that you were young, emotionally happy and didnt have shit tying you down moreso than the fact that weed is getting worse. The state and the relationship equals the experience.

A friend of mine told me about this person he met that wanted to learn the medicine of the marijuana plant, and that person in turn learned that because of the way the 'spirit' had been treated by us westerners for the last 60-70 years, that it would not teach him her medicine. But the man was persistent and kept at it, and after a long period of time, the spirits of "mary' had granted him some medicine songs that he could sing to use to heal people, also known as Icaros. Who can say that they have that type of connection/relationship to marijuana? Certainly not me.

Another point, you really like talking about the fact that your children will get hooked on some synthetic shit, but good parenting can sort that out. Good wholesome kids with love in their hearts and eyes dont go around abusing drugs, unless they fall into a social norm. By using your own energy and spirit in this way, try and analyse what emotions you are conveying to people, if they are healthy or not. Im not feeling good vibes from you at all, and not in that hippy sort of way, you just have a lot of hate that needs to be released, you think there is something wrong with the planet, but you fail to see that everything is perfect the way it is, and if you lived with that mindset than nothing could really bother you, like some synthetic cannabis!

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I think you miss interpreted his statement LDL he was actually referring to strains of Mary Jane endemic to Australia.

Most of these strains have been lost forever and consequently the evolution of those strains have stopped.

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If you think our evolution has stopped, then you are highly mistaken, my friend. Our evolution is happening at its most rapid pace in our entire existence on earth. You like to talk about the spirit of Mary Jane as if to say it is the only thing with spirit, just because its a drug that gets you high. People also have this assumption in general about psychedelics, that one 'connects' with a spirit. EVERYTHING is a spirit, and not just one spirit, but sometimes thousands and thousands of spirits that make up the one plant, as is the case with marijuana. Its not just one spirit floating around, that once smoked, imparts wisdom and knowledge on the user. I think you need to develop a better connection and relationship to this 'spirit' also if you think that strains are getting worse and nothing was as good as 'that time when i was in my prime, smoking 'clean' shit from the sixties and getting high with my best friends and having a blast', sounds like you were more hooked on the fact that you were young, emotionally happy and didnt have shit tying you down moreso than the fact that weed is getting worse. The state and the relationship equals the experience.

A friend of mine told me about this person he met that wanted to learn the medicine of the marijuana plant, and that person in turn learned that because of the way the 'spirit' had been treated by us westerners for the last 60-70 years, that it would not teach him her medicine. But the man was persistent and kept at it, and after a long period of time, the spirits of "mary' had granted him some medicine songs that he could sing to use to heal people, also known as Icaros. Who can say that they have that type of connection/relationship to marijuana? Certainly not me.

Another point, you really like talking about the fact that your children will get hooked on some synthetic shit, but good parenting can sort that out. Good wholesome kids with love in their hearts and eyes dont go around abusing drugs, unless they fall into a social norm. By using your own energy and spirit in this way, try and analyse what emotions you are conveying to people, if they are healthy or not. Im not feeling good vibes from you at all, and not in that hippy sort of way, you just have a lot of hate that needs to be released, you think there is something wrong with the planet, but you fail to see that everything is perfect the way it is, and if you lived with that mindset than nothing could really bother you, like some synthetic cannabis!

 

Thanks for the consult Sigmund how much do I owe you ?

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Magicdirt, the reason why I have a problem with this is because you are helping the system in denying others their preferred ways to get high. It is the same hypocrisy that has existed for many years in regards to other drugs. For example, these forums and many others are full of crap about how LSD is good becuase it is semi natural, while mdma is bad because it is synthetic. When in fact both have about as much natural and synthetic components as each other. I just hate it when people get on their high horse about it and in the process promote the restriction of the substance they don't favour. The herb vs non-herb debate is just an extension of that.

My partner can't take any recreational herbs or substances, but tolerates some of the incenses very well. if they were to come off the market he would have nothing to consume for a night out [or in]. he doesn't even drink. So for me this is an important issue.

This community and it hypocrisy is often its own worst enemy. You demand your favourite drug to be made legal yet you are happy to see someone else's being restricted. How scummy is that? You don't deserve cannabis to be made legal with an attitude like that.

As for censorship, I wonder why you even brought it up? Am I the only person here not allowed to comment on an issue? Isn't your hysterical accusation itself designed to censor me? More hypocrisy I see.

Teljkon - most incense is simply a mix of 3 or 4 inactive or mildly active herbs like damiana, mallow, clover, mullein. There are several ways to 'spike' the herb which depends on the solubility of the chemical. Some use water, others use ethanol and some also use acetone. the solvent is then fully evaporated.

I am a little concerned about some products that also include food colourings which aren't on the label, but that's probably because of my own sensitivities. I can understand the actives not being on the label, but I think colourings etc definitely need to be.

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I find the current situation quite interesting. I have seen some incense blends for sale in Australia that confirm on their website that their products contain a synthetic cannabinoid from the JWH family, so it would seem to me that stores selling such products are technically breaking the law, and the police simply haven't worked out what to do yet.

Also, can anyone comment on how incense manufacturers can make the cannabinoids in the product harder to detect? Would it simply be the method of application, or masking agents?

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Magicdirt, the reason why I have a problem with this is because you are helping the system in denying others their preferred ways to get high. It is the same hypocrisy that has existed for many years in regards to other drugs. For example, these forums and many others are full of crap about how LSD is good becuase it is semi natural, while mdma is bad because it is synthetic. When in fact both have about as much natural and synthetic components as each other. I just hate it when people get on their high horse about it and in the process promote the restriction of the substance they don't favour. The herb vs non-herb debate is just an extension of that.

My partner can't take any recreational herbs or substances, but tolerates some of the incenses very well. if they were to come off the market he would have nothing to consume for a night out [or in]. he doesn't even drink. So for me this is an important issue.

This community and it hypocrisy is often its own worst enemy. You demand your favourite drug to be made legal yet you are happy to see someone else's being restricted. How scummy is that? You don't deserve cannabis to be made legal with an attitude like that.

As for censorship, I wonder why you even brought it up? Am I the only person here not allowed to comment on an issue? Isn't your hysterical accusation itself designed to censor me? More hypocrisy I see.

Teljkon - most incense is simply a mix of 3 or 4 inactive or mildly active herbs like damiana, mallow, clover, mullein. There are several ways to 'spike' the herb which depends on the solubility of the chemical. Some use water, others use ethanol and some also use acetone. the solvent is then fully evaporated.

I am a little concerned about some products that also include food colourings which aren't on the label, but that's probably because of my own sensitivities. I can understand the actives not being on the label, but I think colourings etc definitely need to be.

 

Now I'm a hypocrite too.

Show me where I demanded that pot be made legal.

You call me names now torsten "scummy"

Maybe get your facts straight before you decide to slander someone next time.

I don't even smoke pot.

Edited by Magicdirt

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Show me where I demanded that pot be made legal.

 

It's a bit hard to tell exactly what you mean because you write everything as questions, but your initial post implies that you either want pot legal or both illegal. If it is the latter then i wonder why you are on these forums, so I have to presume it is the former.

"why is this stuff being allowed to flourish when natural home grown organic pot is persecuted ?

Why does our government turn a blind eye to this stuff ?

I am really quite angry that our kids will all soon be hooked on this shit"

There are so many silly statements in your posts about this issue that I would love to point out, but this will have to wait till after these products are off the market because I have learnt not to do the government's work for them. I'll bow out of this discussion with you for now and get back to it in a few weeks or months when the time comes.

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I think you miss interpreted his statement LDL he was actually referring to strains of Mary Jane endemic to Australia.

Most of these strains have been lost forever and consequently the evolution of those strains have stopped.

 

I'm sure some smart people saw this coming and have seed banks carefully hidden :wink:

To address LDL,well I kind of get the Gist...The Dude was very very close if not mostly important as pertains to the "Spirit".

If you think about the vibrational energy of living things,minerals,metals etc...then "The Alchemist" "Tune's" the substances like a ritual which draws attention from the "Spirits"(plural).He is the Shaman,Conduit,Gardener,Caretaker...

Who-ever takes the substance has an impact on the affinity for such Spirits or "Subtle Energies" as well(benevolent AND malevolent).The latter draws down your own vibrational energy like the laws of physics,the same applies to the helpful ones only in reverse resulting in communion.

Hurried,greed injected pot is what draws in the not-so-nice entities and that my friends in my opinion is why Mental Illness is ripe today in societies users as say opposed to the "Hippy Days",or more to the point-Traditional cultivation/Alchemical processes of the past.

Greed,$$ and fast turnover always spoil good produce!

T- I am assuming someone you know is using synths for a reason...I get it,I know I used to keep on adding things to try to alleviate problems when now in fact as the late great Bruce Lee said makes more sense than ever:

"Life is a Process of Elimination, not Accumulation"..I understand the concept and I see and feel it now in myself.

I gave up a while ago and I'm a hell of a lot better off now(was an everyday user for over 20 years),up until then I would defend "My legitimate use" to the bitter end!...now my mind is clearer,I'm stripping away the un-essentials in other areas and though it hurts reversing in the end,it's worth it.

This is just my P.O.V.,not havin' a go,just consider how putting energy into searching for and defending illegal cures becomes ultimately exhausting,then one feels like they deserve a wine or a choof....I know this too well...i'm not alone I gather.

I still think we should have a choice,be better informed(like that's going to happen :rolleyes:) and Prohibition is harmful,useless,futile (to the consumer :wink:) and makes life more stressful at the end of the day....this is the fight we are involved in right now! If we follow suit to some countries in the UK as per The Codex,then we haven't made enough noise.

The simplest form of Alchemy is blessing your food/water/wine and eating in good company rather than through the hastened drive-thru eating it on you lap as you drive scenario :wink:

2c perchinck.

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T- I am assuming someone you know is using synths for a reason...I get it,I know I used to keep on adding things to try to alleviate problems

 

I know lots of people who use synths for the reasons outlined above. Most of them because they get drug tested and synths are one way they can have fun without losing their jobs. Now, I am not encouraging drug driving or going to work fucked up - these friends are mostly quite well established in their professional lives, but as the drug testing does not make allowances for weekend consumption, the only way they can have a bit of mind bending fun is with synths.

However [as also outlined above], the main reason I guess is my partner's occasional use. He can't tolerate any other drugs - not even alcohol. But as an ex pot smoker he REALLY enjoys getting into a similar space for a couple of hours each week with his friend. For him these products are the only escape and I hate watching people destroying this option.

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^^^^ T, any chance you will be stocking these incences, or better yet a choice of incences for SAB users to buy.... That would be great!

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Actually, to be honest I had not considered this until you asked. I think the labelling would be a big issue for me as I don't think there is a single product with fully truthful labelling out there. I somehow don't feel it fits into the SAB thing in its current form.

What do others think?

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Actually, to be honest I had not considered this until you asked. I think the labelling would be a big issue for me as I don't think there is a single product with fully truthful labelling out there. I somehow don't feel it fits into the SAB thing in its current form.

What do others think?

 

all in all, T and others have been really honest here :)

Why not make your own blend?

call it sab shwarma - all vegan in it's integrity

i'm positive that you could make an oz version for the masses

and it would rate off its tits.

A couple of lines up you actually stated whats proly init anyway.

]why not T?

you got most other stuff

cheers

edit - i just wanted to add that - personally, i would not by this product but afaik, people need to have choices don't they?

Edited by etherealdrifter

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Actually, to be honest I had not considered this until you asked. I think the labelling would be a big issue for me as I don't think there is a single product with fully truthful labelling out there. I somehow don't feel it fits into the SAB thing in its current form.

What do others think?

 

I think you should stock them. It's the only thing your store is missing really.

The labeling is tricky but you seem to be good are illustrating potential dangers. Nobody seems to know exactly what's in them and I think you should make this point. In the end the consumer will decide whether to purchase or not.

I think you need to restrict the sale to over 18's. How to achieve this I'm not sure, maybe only accept the order from a credit card with the same name as the billing address or something.

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