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Sola

Coleus blumei

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I found some info in the ethnobotany forum stating that this plant was legal and relatively easy to source.

This was written in 2009 however and knowing the Australian governments penchant for promoting the extinction of plants

I thought I should see if there's been any change to its status. I couldn't find it on the SAB store anymore so that's

what prompted me to start this thread. It's a beautiful plant that I would like to grow if Auntie Julia will let me.

If people know of where to obtain this plant, assuming it's still legal, I would appreciate a heads up.

On another note I feel very sorry for plant enthusiasts of the future who will not get to know the pleasure of rearing so many

plants as they will probably be illegal and so rare that it's very difficult to obtain specimens. All of us here attempting to

preserve this genetic material should take the time to give ourselves a little pat on the back followed by a swift :wave-finger: to any government that erodes the genetic diversity of the planet further.

Peace

Sola

And thanks in advance for any information.

Edited by Sola
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It's legal.

Edited by Alice

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Hello sola ive got a whole heap of coleus seeds PM me your details and will send some out to you..there tiny little buggers like poppie seeds...

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Thanks heaps applesnail, I've PM'd you with details.

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no wah yr welcome, i gotta do a mail run next week so i will get them sent out then and sort the seeds over the weekend will give me something half interesting to do in my mundane lifestyle..lol

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bunnings sell the ol coleus from time to time. There prob legal cause there not hardly psycoactive at all. They are how ever, a beautiful, trippy lookin plant. Especially if it is given just enough water to keep it from wilting. Water seems to wash out the colour, especially in the centre of the leaves.

There quite a hardy plant, especially the green yellow variety. I had some 2 foot cuttings from a plant of mine and had it on some shade cloth to dry it out so i could do some experiments and extracts on it.

Anyway, 2 months later i come back and its pushing out new growth! Amazing. It took 4 months to die and dry.

My favorite is the purple pink ones followed by the pink green. I think i bought mine from the sab web store.

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I seen some wicked specimens in cairns, quite an extaordinary plant when it grows into a decent plant size..a true psychedelic formation of colours! This is one plant that never ceases to amaze how beautiful nature is!

Edited by applesnail
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Hey sola check out big W they have them here in mackay for $8 theres also some purple coleus and a rainbow mix they seem to always have in stock.

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Why does this coleus myth keep perpetuating itself? I've done so many extracts and experiments on the plant, all of them negative. NO-ONE has EVER reported psychoactivity from this plant. Just remember that...and look at some of my previous posts, if they're still there.

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I've seen them in KMART garden centres around here sola, and now I've seen online all the other awesome colours that they have, i'm gonna get some too! :)

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Why does this coleus myth keep perpetuating itself? I've done so many extracts and experiments on the plant, all of them negative. NO-ONE has EVER reported psychoactivity from this plant. Just remember that...and look at some of my previous posts, if they're still there.

 

Ive reported coleus to be psychoactive its not like sally it wont rip your head open or anything its quite subtle, slight relaxation and a noticble blue/green aura around lights nothing you would notice unless you were looking for it. I think most coleus species to some degree contain forskolin (like coleus forskoli)or some related alkaloid its used in alzheimer's treatment to increase levels of cyclic amp wich in turn releases growth hormone by activating calcium channels in your brain Im assuming this also to some degree increases the release of dopamine and serotonin perhaps?

safe to say it in no way replicates the sally experience perhaps the myth perpetuates because coleus also contains levels of some thujone wich is also a minor alkaloid in sally (or so ive read) It would be interesting to experiment with coleus as an additive to smoking blend etc but dont expect some paridigm shifting mind flip off the stuff.

might also mention that I didnt get much out of smoking an extract I found chewing a quid more effective so yes coleus is psychoactive but hey so is caffine. coleus might make better use as a nootropic than a recreational drug.

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Thanks to everyone for comments and suggestions, I live a long way from 'civilisation' so a trip to the nearest Bunnings KMart or Big W

might entail staying down in Adelaide for the night but next time I'm down I'll check it out.

I really like the colours on the leaves so even if there's little/ no active component, I'll still be happy.

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i support both of your views, lofty's and huichol's.

huichol is a veteran, if he say's it didn't work, it didn't, this could have many reasons why...

but, there is no doubt, that coleus is active, we had many reports over the years, saying so, and many of them were, very seasoned psychonauts!

smoking psylos or viridis works for me aswell, but many members say, it doesn't work for them....

it's a challange to keep those coleus leaves in the mouth for that long, specialy in those ammounts necessary.

huchinol, i wished you would use youre old nick, but anyway, do you have a lot of body weight? or maybe the coleus can't do it for you because, you use medications.

maybe you are just more resistant.

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On the suject of coleus - to make this plant more of a pot friendly bush, would it be better to trim it back regulary and keep it in a smaller pot? i've just noticed that it seems to go a little wild and shoot off in all directions very quickly.

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Apologies is this is considered digging up the thread.

I've been reading up on Coleus and I read somewhere that a mexican tribe referred to the Coleus plant as the 'male' and Salvia divinorim as the 'female' and they would make a brew from the two when they practiced their ceremonies. Due to the fact that Salvia D. is illegal in Australia, I looked into other species of Salvia and realized that I've got a strong Salvia coccinea growing out the back.

From what I read, smoking Salvia coccinea produces a calming effect, which lead me to believe that there is an active alkaloid in the plant.

But as with most plants that don't have much information about them, all you can do is hope and try.

Two nights ago, I decided to give it a go and see what would happen. I gathered 40 or 50 leaves of S. coccinea and 10 leaves or coleus blumei and made a tea, which didn't taste nearly as bad as a straight coleus tea.

About an hour later, I drove around to a mates, picked up some potent weed and and came home.

After smoking 6 (I think) buds, I sort of blacked out/went into a dreamy state for about 6 seconds. I then got up, and started seeing visuals.

I'll point out here that this was my first mild psychedelic experience, I've tried a small dose of psilocybin mushrooms, but only experienced a nice body load.

The visuals seemed to be what looked like faces coming towards me constantly, I can't really explain it much further.

Anyway, I went inside and looked at my floor, the dirt on the cement seemed to morph into small faces. I then hopped on my computer and noticed a distinct blurred vision.

After about 5 minutes on the computer, I got up and looked in the mirror. I noticed that my mouth was almost completely dry, which was really uncomfortable and unusual, I never get dry mouth from smoking weed.

I sat back down and closed my eyes. What was really interesting for me is that I was hearing noises, though I can't distinctly remember what noises they were, I can confirm that they weren't real.

Anyway, From what I can remember, I saw a green tunnel that was bending as I went through it. About minute later I got up and

vomited outside. I'm not going to go into detail here, but it was extremely unpleasant vomiting with a dry mouth.

Afterwards, I went and got a drink of water and went to bed.

Setting:

- No THC tolerance (had not smoked in a couple of months)

- At home, Saturday night

- Cold and a little bit sick

Effects:

- Dry mouth

- Anxiety

- Mild/weak visuals

- Music sounded great and had me feeling emotions

- Hearing sounds

- Can't remember much (probably the marijuana doing that though)

I'm not going to repeat the experience anytime soon, as it was really unpleasant for me, but I will try it again one day.

This definitely deserves some more exploration, I'll see if someone I know is willing to try it and tell me the effects that they experience.

If anyone has the chance and is willing to do so, it'd be great if someone could do some research and exploration of the combination.

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I've been reading up on Coleus and I read somewhere that a mexican tribe referred to the Coleus plant as the 'male' and Salvia divinorim as the 'female' and they would make a brew from the two when they practiced their ceremonies.

 

Can you provide a reference for this statement?

What Mexican tribe, who learned it and when and from whom?

Coleus is not native to Mexico, but Salvia divinorum is.

What tribe brews Salvia? What is the traditional means of preparation?

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http://www.entheology.org/edoto/anmviewer.asp?a=39&z=5

The 'Mazatec Indians of southwestern Mexico' is the tribe I was referring to.

I can't find anything on how they prepared it, and reading the page again, it only describes the Coleus being used on it's own.

I could've sworn that I read something somewhere about them making a tea from it, but I could easily be wrong.

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For centuries, the Mazatec Indians of southwestern Mexico have known and used El Ahijado in their religious healing ceremonies.

this is a quote from that page, but the mexican indians could not have had the plant long, it is not native to mexico at all, it is actually a rather recent introduction there, unlike Salvia.

the refferences for that paper include:

Ratsch, Christian. 2005. The Encyclopedia of Psychoactive Plants: Ethnopharmacology and Its Applications. Park Street Press; Rochester, VT.

Schultes, Richard E; Hofmann, Albert; Ratsch, Christian. 2001. Plants of the Gods: Their Sacred, Healing and Hallucinogenic Powers. Healing Arts Press; Rochester, VT.

Note that both of these sources are largely involving Christian Ratsch, he repeats a lot of stuff that he does not have first hand experience with... some of his work is considered suspect for this reason

in the old Schultes work the golden guide:

http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/golden_guide/g131-140.shtml

check out page 138

COLEUS (Coleus pumas and C. blumei) is cultivated by the Mazatecs of Oaxaca, Mexico, who reputedly employ the leaves in the some way as they use the leaves of Salvia divinorum ( see p. 137) . Indeed, the Indians recognize the family relationship between these two genera of mints, both of the family Labiatae. They refer to S. divinorum as la hembra ("the female") and to C. pumilus as el macho ("the male"). There are two forms of C. blumei, which they call el niño ("the child") and el ahijado ("the godson").

These two species are native to Asia, where they are valued in folk medicine but apparently have not been used as hallucinogens. No hallucinogenic principle hes yet been discovered in the 150 known Coleus species.

now according to the earlier link you provided:

El Ahijado was first studied by Gordon Wasson while he was searching Southern Mexico for the mythical psychoactive plant used by the Aztecs, Pipiltzintzintli. During Wasson’s expedition through the Sierra Madre Mazateca region, not only did he discover the Indians ritual use of Salvia Divinorum as a hallucinogen, but he also learned of their use of Coleus Blumei as a potent substitute for Salvia. When Salvia Divinorum, La Hembra (the Woman) was unavailable, the native shaman would use the leaves and flowers of El Ahijado (the Godson) in its place.

in his early papers published on salvia there seems to be little mention of coleus:

http://www.erowid.org/entheogens/writings/wasson_notes.shtml#Pipiltzintzintli

Now this is more interesting:

that link again has this line:

When Salvia Divinorum, La Hembra (the Woman) was unavailable, the native shaman would use the leaves and flowers of El Ahijado (the Godson) in its place.

and reading further down it says this:

TRADITIONAL PREPARATION: The Mazatec natives tend to consume El Ahijado in two way, either as a fresh lea chewable quid or as a dried leaf smokable herb. Traditionally, eight to twelve small leaves are freshly picked from the plant, rolled into a quid and chewed, the juices are swallowed and after 15 – 20 minutes the used quid is discarded and exchanged for fresh leaves. In other Mazatec communities the leaves and flowers are gathers and dried, the resulting dried herbs are crushed and mixed with tobacco or Tagetes lucida (Mexican Tarragon) to be smoked.

Note that it claims that the plant, the one used as a replacement for Salvia, is used in 2 ways, as a quid or as a smoked herb... this is interesting because Wasson has this to say in 1963:

R. GORDON WASSON

from Botanical Museum Leaflets, Harvard University,

Vol. 20, No. 6, Nov. 22, 1963, pp. 161-212.

In September 1962 we gathered specimens of the hojas de la Pastora, and they were found to be a species new to science: Epling and Jativa named it Salvia divinorum. (20) Among the Mazatecs I have seen only the leaves ground on the metate, strained, and made into an infusion. The colonial records speak of an infusion made from the roots, stems and flowers.

Ok, now you should begin to see what is wrong, Wasson claims that he has only seen one method used for Salvia, a method of infusing ground leaves, he mentions that older records mention an infusion of leaves, roots and flowers but does not say he saw it being used that way. And yet the other online source says that the Mazatec people use Saliva as a quid or as a smoked herb, but this is actually not true at all.

There is something amiss here,

it would seem that the information at the link:

http://www.entheology.org/edoto/anmviewer.asp?a=39&z=5

is not accurate, rather the opposite seems to be true, isn't it interesting that the paper even leaves out one traditional method(infusion of ground material) and includes one non-traditional method (smoking) as traditional?

the link here:

http://www.entheology.org/edoto/anmviewer.asp?a=156&z=1

does recall an account where a quid method is employed, however smoking Salvia is not traditional at all.

On an interesting side note, note that in the Salvia ritual San Pedro was invoked!

Anyway the claims about Coleus being traditionally used have virtually nothing to back them up, where is one account, just one, of a traditional ceremony using Coleus? Rumors, claims, yes, but unlike with Salvia there is no first hand account or observation of the use of this plant, which is not even native to Mexico.

Maybe it is psychoactive in some sense, but comparing it to Salvia is a very dubious claim. It is legal and a lot of people have experimented with it and there are no reports of it being anything like Salvia.

Edited by Archaea
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they prepared it the same way they prepared salvia...blumei & pumila well as was said by indians..

http://www.sagewisdom.org/wasson1.html

maybe coleus has to be tweaked with some kinda indian shamanic backwards upside down handstand rain dance to be active? :blink:

Edited by applesnail
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they prepared it the same way they prepared salvia...blumei & pumila well as was said by indians..

http://www.sagewisdom.org/wasson1.html

 

from the link you provide:

Salvia divinorum is, in the minds of the Mazatecs, only the most important of several plants, all Labiatae, that they regard as members of the same "family." Salvia divinorum is known as la hembra, "the female." El macho, or "the male" is Coleus pumila, of European origin. Then there is el nene, "the child," and el ahijado, "the godson," which are both forms of Coleus Blumei. Some Indians insist that these others are likewise psychotropic, but we have not tried them; others say these are merely medicinal.

Emphasis mine.

Note that these plants are in the same family, and the natives ascribe them a family relationship, could this conflation reflect a taxonomic awareness? Clearly Wasson did not witness any use of Coleus and mentioned "others say these are merely medicinal"

This is far cry from proof of use in a traditional sense. Rather he is specific with Salvia and vague with Coleus, even claiming that he was given mixed information, told by some of the indians that they were merely medicinal.

He closes:

We know that Salvia divinorum is so employed in the Sierra Mazateca, and Coleus pumila and two "forms" of C. Blumei are said by some of the Indians to be similiarly used.

this line could also be restated like this:

We know that Salvia divinorum is so employed in the Sierra Mazateca, and Coleus pumila and two "forms" of C. Blumei are said by some of the Indians to not be similiarly used.

after all if he was told by some of them that they were only medicinal then they were said by some of the indians to not be used like Salvia.

He only said he "knew" that Salvia was used and gives vague and even contrary claims that the other plants were used. There is nothing in them being said to be related to Salvia that suggests use. It is well known they are Salvia relatives and that they are not from Mexico.

Wasson himself never claims that Coleus is used or active. Ratsch does, but cites Wasson!

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That is very interesting..... a closer reading of some of these texts can reveal more if you look for it.

First-hand experience is often the only way to ascertain the validity of some claims, especially if someone is trying to gain something from their statement, like selling more copies of a book.

I do like these texts though but you make a good point that they have their limitations and errors.

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huichol is a veteran, if he say's it didn't work, it didn't, this could have many reasons why...

one of which is he did not test the right strain or he cannot feel mild psychoactives like many hardheads do.

nevertheless, there have been people reporting it is active, me being one of them supporting the "myth" of Coleus psychoactivity, since 2007, so I might have played a role in keeping the myth alive. I know I tried, for one.

In particular, I have supported that Coleus is a pretty mild psychedelic but it synergises notably with cannabis. People have commented on its impact in dreams too. Some say go quid.

Actually I think my first post here was about Coleus. I am still of the same opinion, but have a diminished interest in the plant. I might vaporise some these days, thankfully and despite the neglect, the strain is alive.

It is a tall strain, with bold colours, unlike the usual dwarf nursery Coleus... The colours fade quickly and wear off more in intense sun, it doesn't like it, in shade it eventually takes on more intense colours and it keeps the leaves more.

People wonder why the Coleus myth pertains. Well I have offered to send my material to anyone willing to try, but noone ever asked. Do you want to prove it's a myth? Here's the active strain. Come and get it!

I never archieved anything so far from eating/smoking an extract too, but smoking dried leaf has always proven mildly but safely psychoactive for me.

People who claim noone's still supporting Coleus psychoactivity or who expect S.divinorums's like effects clearly haven't tried too much.

Many if not all Salvias are psychoactive, most are sedative.

Shadow2>

I never tried S.coccinea other than smoked, but it is very psychoactive, narcotic and emo-numbing in particular.

Coleus blumei , if it is active, on the other hand would synergise with the pot and making it more psychedelic and / or stimulating, if it werent't for the sedative coccinea. All in all, you would only fee an active coleus taken along with cannabis, by distinguishing the high from cannabis itself.

This can be easily done in a sleepy / bad pot batch. Replace tobacco with 50% coleus leaf and the joint suddenly feels like it's got some high quality bud in.

=====

Seeing how some particular types of hardhead people completely dismiss or challenge the psychoactivity of minor psychoactives , has me not wondering at all on how minor psychoactives might be dismissed.

For me it's more or less the same subject as people saying "Datura is evil, worthless, dangerous, I did it and look what happened to me" , but they have only overdosed on datura and passed it out as knowledge, or normal experience.

Being idiot is normal and idiots have a long tradition on ODing on daturas. Does this justify "stay the fuck away?"

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Thanks for that info mutant, I like getting firsthand reports. I'd love to get a cutting or two if you could spare it?

The leaves are worth growing this plant even if it has no psychoactivity 'for me'.

I have dozens of different salvia's at home but I always thought the ornamental varieties were devoid of any activity, might be worth another look.

PM me if you're able to do cuttings and we'll work something out.

Cheers

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mutant: that sounds about right, even tho i've never gotten effects. I feel the effects from damiana from both tea and smoke. I'v only ever tried coleus smoking plain leaf, tea, quid, and smoking extract to no avail. But i'v never smoked it with pot. Later in the month i'll pm you and get some bits and bob off you ;)

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Problem is I am not in Autralia

but sure, I will send some if you take the risk.

I think I have some seeds somewhere

ubza have you got a photo of the plant you sampled?

for what it's worth, this strain I am talking about is even more beautiful than the usual nursery one.

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