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Doopie sp.

Advice needed - Mimosa Hostilis Root Bark held at quarantine

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Gday I need some law related advice from Aussies who know how quarantine works.

I should be posting this request over at the Nexus but its been down last few days.

Ok I took a risk and ordered some mimosa hostilis root bark. I ordered it to my home address but under a different name, my thinking being I could claim Id never ordered it if things got dicey.

So today I got a letter from Quarantine saying they had a package for me that contained an unidentified bark material and that it didnt satisfy quarantine regulations as there is a likelihood that it might introduce pests or disease. They give me two options:

Either I can pay $40 to have it treated (gamma irradiation), after which they will post it to me. Or I can return to sender.

It seems like they are not after me for importing MHRB, just that it needs to be treated...

Im uncertain what to do, especially because I gave a false name for the delivery. Is there any chance this is a trap, if I send payment for the treatment am I in effect accepting ownership at which point they might hit me with a charge for 1. using a false name and 2. importing material containing a prohibited substance?

Any advice is appreciated.

Cheers

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Ditch it ! It isn't worth the risk if you don't reply they will destroy it and then there is no evidence of any crime!

Edited by dworx

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I think it's unlikely that it's a trap, but I agree with Dworx, it's not worth the risk. Cop the loss and be thankful it didn't turn out worse.

Edited by Alice

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I think it's unlikely that it's a trap, but I agree with Dworx, it's not worth the risk. Cop the loss and be thankful it didn't turn out worse.

 

Yeah you are both right... its a stupid risk to take. It would be too cheeky to pay for the treatment and have them send it to me...

Dammit, thats $60 down the drain... if anyone knows how I can get MHRB in Aussie please feel free to pm me.

And thanks very much for your advice dworx and Alice, u probably saved me a lot of trouble cause I was seriously considering paying for the treatment and just hoping it was all good :P

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Yeah quarantine charges $42.00 dollars to return send to the sender, this is a letter i got for some seeds i ordered, or they destroy them for free(I cant decide what the better option is :blink: ) just give me the goods and i can return send for $6.00 quarantine must use those special gold sealed envelopes or stamps that cost $40.00....Actually they sent me quite a friendly letter and even gave me the seeds i wanted the most and kept the ones that were not so important...keep up the good work AQIS love ya work and a pleasure doin business with ya! Destroy the goods for free, cant get a better deal then that! I guess to light a fire costs zilch compared to government envelopes and stamps!

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Despite what Alice said, please keep in mind that this is exactly how customs trapped me for a similar import. By getting you to agree to quarantine treatment you are confirming intention to import and hence legal liability for customs. It's a remote chance, but it has certainly happened before.

  • Like 1

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Despite what Alice said, please keep in mind that this is exactly how customs trapped me for a similar import. By getting you to agree to quarantine treatment you are confirming intention to import and hence legal liability for customs. It's a remote chance, but it has certainly happened before.

 

Torsten that scenario is exactly what I was most worried about. If somebody came to my door at this stage, I could say 'the name on the packagae isn't me, there has been a mistake.' and I think id be in the clear.

But the moment I send payment I am accepting ownership of that package and therefore basically admitting to arranging importation...

Anyway I have decided that its not worth the risk. Ill leave it and they can destroy it, although it shits me to the point of tears that there are so many restrictions our supposedly liberal society places on us! :ana:

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Torsten: can we ask what it was that you were importing when customs trapped you? Was it live plant matter, seeds or dry plant matter, like Doopie's MHRB?

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This happens with any plant matter you import into Australia... at any time.

I know a lot of people who have brought in various plant matters that quarantine have heat or gamma irradiated.

Customs will generally just send you a letter saying the item is a prohibited item, unless you have tried to import other plants they deem to be "illegal". Or you just wont receive your package at all.

Apart from Torsten, I haven't heard of anyone else really getting into trouble for importing plant materials into Australia.

Julian.

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I haven't heard of anyone else really getting into trouble for importing plant materials into Australia.

Julian.

 

hi, julian!

maybe you are only refering to bark and stems, but the term, "plant matter" would have to include seeds aswell, and i know, quite a few stories were people got in trouble for importing them.

those authoreties definately suck, but i would not mess with them too much.

tort explained to us once that, if quarantine clears your stuff, you could still be in trouble at the next hurdle, if it's a prohibited import or contains prohibited stuff....

if it's a minor offence, they let you off, the first time, but with repeat offences you might not get so lucky.

Edited by planthelper

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!

Edited by Magicdirt

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I have paid for the heat treatment and got some nice thick Caapi thru.

They sent the Psycotria straight to me being leaf,they only had issues with bark or wood.

This was maybe 8 yrs ago.

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Maybe Torsten won't be forthcoming with his story, but it would really be unusual, unethical, and probably unprocedural for Q to send a letter asking for payment to clear an item they knew to be prohibited. In some US states they have entrapment laws to prevent beauracracies from pulling tricks like this. If it happened to me I'm sure a good lawyer could put the ball back in the court of Q.

All in all, I'd say with 99% certainty if you paid the fee it would come to your address...except you can't pay the fee because it's a false name....which sometimes works against you, eh?

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Maybe Torsten won't be forthcoming with his story, but it would really be unusual, unethical, and probably unprocedural for Q to send a letter asking for payment to clear an item they knew to be prohibited. In some US states they have entrapment laws to prevent beauracracies from pulling tricks like this. If it happened to me I'm sure a good lawyer could put the ball back in the court of Q.

All in all, I'd say with 99% certainty if you paid the fee it would come to your address...except you can't pay the fee because it's a false name....which sometimes works against you, eh?

 

Well... I think using a false name could probably still be useful coz if the plant material is somehow identified by Q or customs a person could still hide behind the argument "Thats not my name, I never ordered that, theres been a mistake...".

Also, there would be nothing stopping an individual from paying for the treatment right now, regardless of the name it was ordered under.

But its still not worth the risk.

I should probably state at this point that this whole thread has been one big hypothetical scenario right? This actual scenario isnt happening to anyone that I know, rather I was just wondering out loud what the implications would be if a similar scenario did arise. Im sure everyone knows that already though.

Cheers for all contributions, an informative discussion.

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The item I was importing was iboga seed. This was a quarantine unasseessed item at the time and they gave me the option to assess. I did not immediately pay for the AQIS fees because I wasn't sure if I could get the details needed for assessment. Either way, up to this point it is no different to any other plant material bein stopped by AQIS for futher processing.

A week later I get a letter from customs stating that they seized the item and that they intend to prosecute pending confirmatory analysis for ibogaine content which is a customs prohibited drug import. They cited my communicatiosn with AQIS as evidence that i was prepared to proceed with the import.

Solicitor advised to wait for the customs court order, which never came. On later enquiry he was told that there would be no prosecution because AQIS had not passed the item onto customs and it was in their care when the quarantine assessment deadline passed, so they destroyed it. This made analysis impossible and customs decided it was not a solid case.

There is no entrapment here as customs or quarantine weren't offering me anything other than their usual procedure, which is to return, destroy or assess. Them using such a confirmation as proof of intent to import is no different than them using a courier signature as proof of receipt.

While Julian and others are quite right that most plant matter imports make it through, there are certainly quite a few cases where this did not go as smoothly as often presented. There are certainly convictions for mescaline containing material, harmaline containing material, salvia, wormwood oil and calamus oil [that's all I can remember right now, but there are more]. In most cases the penalties were fairly low due mostly to the circumstances [naivety of importer and no priors or known associations], but as all of them are in lower courts ther eis no precedent and hence nothing stopping a judge to put you in jail for 10 years for a kilo of caapi vine.

One of the reasons most of you don't hear much about such cases is because the first thing a solicitor will recommend is to cut all ties with anyone involved with this community or drugs. These people often dropp off the radar suddenly. As the case often takes 6-12 months to be heard and the penalties usually involve at least 2-3 years good behaviour, most of the people don't come back. They certainly don't post details about the case on the forums and solicitor advice is usually to not discuss with friends either. A good example are the mephedrone busts 14 months ago. How many do you think there were? only a couple were reported on bluelight and one here. Yet I've had more than 10 people contact me privately about them. most of them after the case was finished, ie nealry a year after it happened. My guess is there were dozens.

Similar situation in regards to psilo spore imports. if you search the forums here you will see that i reported several such cases over the years yet none of these people stayed in the community and hence people still naively think this is a grey area.

Statements like colhawk's and magicdirt's don't change the actual legality. They only give you some indication that you can get away with it. I think if you asked them same questionabout mdma you'd probably get the same replies - the vast majority will get away with it. But are you willing to take the risk. Many are willing and that's their choice, but I think it is unfair to let noobs fall into the trap of assessing these risks by looking at the successes rather than the failures. It's the failures that at the very least screw up your record and travel plans, and at worst land you in jail after spending 30K on a solicitor.

  • Like 2

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I was just reading your store website, Torsten, under the T. iboga entry, and I find it incredible that it's illegal to import ibogaine containing material, but it's not illegal to possess it. That's very different from things like B. caapi, no? What else exists in this funny area of in-between-ness?

Thanks for telling us the story, by the way. Especially in light of your experience and your lawyer's advice...

Edited by Marcel

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What else exists in this funny area of in-between-ness?

 

There are various levels of legislation and any plant or substance that is in one, but not in another may be seen in some sort of inbetween state. Prohibiting customs entry is usually the first line of defence, so anything that has made it that far, but not further will be in a similar situation. Peyote seeds are a good example in most states, but there are loads more. You really need to read the schedules to get a grasp on these.

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thats funny about possession. Canada has a law with Ephedra sp. that is the same. cant import or export it, but can have it. Im happier with that kind of law compared to outright ban wagon.

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The DMT-Nexus.... Oh that place, LOL...

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I think the Nexus is hot.

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Just in case it's useful to readers, and also for the sake of closure on this thread:

Me 1 / Quarantine 0

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I think what teotz means by hot is its being watched by some government(s) or their law enforcement agencies, but i think most ethno and drug forums are anyway.

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I thought the nexus was sexy?

Doobie just some clarification, you let them burn it and then had no follow up visit, or you paid the price and have received your package?

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