freaks!!!!

[Gunter]

here are 2 of the Nitrogen cross, Peruvianus monstrose X SS02:

These do very well on their own roots!

They are also vigorous in general.

[kadakuda]

start producing or is it already there just masked by the red colour much like seedlings turning red??

 

ya many times there is green under the flesh that is not at all noticeable until you cut it into pieces. But i have seen some, as far as i can tell, pure red ones root and grow some gren. But who knows what cells are hidden in there? could just be some green and we cant see.

arch, lovely shots. those crests sure dont waste any time, do they?

[Gunter]

those crests sure dont waste any time, do they?

 

Nope, two of them have more mass than their siblings that are growing non-crested, they are marvelous.

[Evil Genius]

I´d like to contribute a little bit to this Thread if you dont mind, Archaea. This is one Peruvianus that developed very interesting. Note it pups in basically all directions. Not sure if you´ll see this on the pic but it also pupped on the backside. In total, it has about five or six pups and its still a very small seedling. Im still not sure if i should graft it, as it looked kinda weak for some time. Plus i dont like the color compared to the others. Now its finally looking like it would pick up some growth so i´ll might graft it at some point. But i´m a little bit hesistant as i dont wanna lose it. What would you do?

[Philocacti]

Evil Genius - are you sure that your cactus is not infected with "witches broom"?

The picture is not so clear, but does it have white cottony specs on some areols?

[Evil Genius]

Hi Philocacti, well it definately doesnt look healthy to me. The Color of the seedling is just not right. I´m glad you mentioned that as i wasnt even aware that such an infection exists. I never had a seedling like this. I just checked and it definately has some cottony specs on some of the areoles. Do you have personal experiences with that? I´ll probably put it under quarantine. But its funny because there are some other seedlings from the same seed batch growing right beside it and they arent sick at all. Seems like it might have been caused because the weak seedling has a bad immune system. bye Eg

edit: I think about destroying the plant to stop the disease from spreading. Or do you think it can be healed?

Edited May 13, 2011 by Evil Genius

[Gunter]

I'd leave it alone and see how it grows. I don't favor grafting things that can't survive well on their own roots.

[Philocacti]

I think about destroying the plant to stop the disease from spreading. Or do you think it can be healed?

i would do the same thing, one time i bought a melted wax bridgesii that was infected with witches broom, i thought it looks very cool. But in one season it infected a lot of my other cacti and i couldn't get rid of it util i got rid of most of the infected specimen, the valuable specimen i cut the infected parts. However, in my experience some individuals are immune to it.

My problem with this disease is that the cactus doesn't grow in a normal way, but it keeps pupping and every pup pups again from all areols.

here's a pic of the melted wax bridgesii

PS Archaea - don't mean to hijack your thread. I really like your crests and other mutants. Im hoping one of my SS01XTPM would turn monstrose or a crest.

Keep this thread updated

[planthelper]

good to see this tread getting lot's of momentum and views latly! ;)

this thread rocks, archaea, those rascals are amazing, and are capable of producing feelings of envy!!

i often had albino lophs if the seeds were bought, but my own seeds never seem to produce freaks.

although a good grafter, none of my freak chlorophyll lophs ever survived grafting.

but now, i have a new plan, to produce freaks by trying to x lophs with loph alikes.

probably once you have a freak, that pollen could produce more freaks with more ease.

now i realy want a loph freak,

off to the trade forum, in a hurry....

[Gunter]

i think that with some freaks the trait is cytoplasmic and therefor not always passed through pollens, but may be passed to seeds by the ovary. So in some cases freak moms are more likely to create freak kids than freak dads, so to speak.

I read in an old cactus book that X-rays used to be used to generate higher rates of cactus mutants. And wiki has this to say:

Exposing plants to radiation is sometimes called radiation breeding and is a sub class or mutagenic breeding. Radiation breeding was was discovered in the 1920s when Lewis J. Stadler of the University of Missouri used X-rays on barley seeds. The resulting plants were white, yellow, pale yellow and some had white stripes.[3] During the period 1930 - 2004 Gamma rays were employed to develop 64% of the radiation-induced mutant varieties, followed by X-rays (22%).[2]

One can irradiate pollen, embryos (including seeds) and ovary tissues to attempt this, if one had the means.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/28/science/28crop.html

Someone would still have to use selection to screen out the deleterious mutations, but if one had the means to X-ray large batches of seeds then there could be some very interesting mutations.

h++p://www.jstor.org/action/showArticleImage?image=images%2Fpages%2Fdtc.218.tif.gif&doi=10.2307%2F4257260

h++p://www.jstor.org/pss/4257260

h++p://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1601-5223.1960.tb03105.x/pdf

 

SOMATIC MUTATIONS OF FOUR GENES

FOR ALBINISM IN BARLEY INDUCED

SULPHONATE

BY X-RAYS AND ETHYL METHANEBy

EWALD A. FAVREI

 

 

The X-ray treatments were performed

at 175 and 240 KV and 15 mA, delivering 800-1 000 r/niin., the seeds

having a water content of about 11 %. The EMS treatments were made

by soaking the seeds in solutions of different concentrations for 24

hours with continuous shaking and using 10 times more solution than

the corresponding volume of the seeds. After the treatment, the seeds

were washed thoroughly in tap water arid sown within the next 12

hours.

Spontaneous mutation occurs in a very low frequency, 1 streak on

3 049 leaves. On the other hand, X-ray and EMS treatments increase

the mean frequency from 30 to 250 times in the homozygous strains.

unpublished data on X-ray treatments of pregerniinated seeds show a much

higher mutation frequency than on dry ones.

There should be an easy way to induce chemical mutation on seeds as a means to produce plants that have some albino traits, if that was what you were after.

In terms of bromeliads I read the following online:

I do hybridize lots of Neo. each years. I still don't have variegated hybrids. I had variegated mom pollinated. Some seedlings grew up white and then gone. Even I pollinated them with non-variegated plants. Some seedlings are all green.

When I hybridize the non-variegated plants with variegated one. The result is the same. Seedlings are usually all greens. There is no sign of variegated plants. Is that variegated trait on mother plant? What shoult I do to get the variegated hybrids.

In this case the cause of the variagation is likely to be somatic, inherited with the cytoplasm from the mother, but not passed through pollen and thus not genetic.

h++p://jhered.oxfordjournals.org/content/54/1/23.extract

h++p://jhered.oxfordjournals.org/content/54/1/23.extract.jpg

Another case of somatic mutation variegation, in this case the tobacco produced seedlings where some were variegated, some were normal and many albino, this description is very close to what i got with the T huascha X SS02 seedlings. It would be interesting to see what other seed lots produced by the same mother would produce.

[mutant]

I think I have come across this witches broom, that Philocacti is describing. I have destroyed or left ot die some specimens that looked helpless. I have noticed that this has a co-occurence with mealies [mealy bugs] in some occasions.

A guarantine should be considered.

well this isn't from seed, but it looks cool.

this is a pachanoi mostrosa which was columnar when I got it from kada, it grew a bit and became 100% crest, then in some point it threw a 'hand' branch with 3 normal tips. I repotted in biggish pot and did not cut the normal tips. They have all three turnt mostrosa and one of them is now doing this... I wonder if the tips will in turn become crests next on!

Edited May 15, 2011 by mutant

[Moses]

http://www.lapshin.org/cultivar/list-e.htm

here's an interesting site with some articles on irradiating cactus seed to produce coloured cacti.

a good site to bookmark for later reference and has some awesome freak pix.

here is an article on irradiating seed

http://www.lapshin.org/cultivar/N39/smirnov-e.htm

Edited May 16, 2011 by Moses

[tipz]

Loving this thread archaea, wish i could get a batch of seed that produced these results.. but i have to ask ?

How many freaky variagates did you let perish ( as they would not survive without grafting )?

[Gunter]

a lot of the variegated ones didn't grow much or at all, a few of them threw green pups that grew well...

i forget how many died... most of them that had no color died... only a few variegated ones lived...

i'd show updates but i am nowhere near them.

[planthelper]

most of the commercial seeds that go around produce a decent ammount of colored/albino seeds.

but grafting albinos, is most of the time much harder than, grafting a normal seedling, that's because they are softer to the touch, and often stay very small, so it's hard to handle them.

i use a razorblade removed from a throw away razor, and because the albino's are too smal to handle with your fingers, i slide the scion, off the razorblade, onto the stock. in other words, i use the razor blade, like a hamburger cook, uses his spatula, to slide a paddy onto the bun. than very quickly check from two sides if it's well centered. i try to have a perfect fit, with albinos, because they are so far more sensitive.

if all goes well, i might have the beginning of a varigated ariocarpus retusus!

[tipz]

Thanks for the tipz planthelper.

I have sowed seed en masse over the last month and have quite a few albino/mutant looking seeds.Ill try that technique this week.

And gunter... i would love to take those terminally ill patients off your hands When will you be able to get some updated pics up ?

Look forward to it