Jump to content
The Corroboree
nabraxas

Have Humans Evolved to Believe in God?

Recommended Posts

If this is your concept of god I'm worried.

 

Hehe - obviously I wasn't referring to myself ;)

Edited by botanika

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

. Ready to

? I

 

holy shit. maybe god didnt forget us. Ole mates been busy...maybe hes lost ?

some interesting thoughts in this thread:)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hehe - obviously I wasn't referring to myself ;)

 

So what would you say if you were referring to yourself?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What is self? :devil:

Awesome little discussion. I've had fun reading it, apart from learning that arrogant douchebag dawkins coined such a useful term.

Edited by The Dude

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

5-7-08-sliding-shelf.jpg

Edit: Oh, sorry about that. I must have to get my eyes tested...

:P

Edited by synchromesh

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i think religion and spirituality was a turning point in human development.

to be able to believe, that something 'might' be - the ability to imagine, and not just the neural pathway that told them "this action, results in this action." i believe this is also linked to art - the ability to perceive something, and then express it as a seperate entity.

religion also helped spurn a very social complexity, and this in turn helped to develop trade, advanced language and a higher sense of awareness for surroundings(people, nature etc).

having said that, it likely wasn't the be all and end all of human evolution. everything played a part, and no doubt some cultures were more spiritual than others, who developed just fine.

i wonder if cro-magnans had the ability of art? anyone know the answer...? :wink:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i don't think we "evolve(d) to believe in god"

we evolved to have perceptive & inquiring minds.. the state of modern religion is probably misleading if we're thinking about the evolution of the concept of "god." modern religion is a completely bastardized & institutionalized version of what i see as a very natural human impulse.. the desire to understand the unknown & the incredibly profound states of experience we're capable of as human beings..

we are perceptive creatures of consciousness & throughout all of human evolution there surly is always going to be the realms of what we know & outside of that is the realms of the unknown... a perfectly natural thing for a human mind to do is to attempt to understand that which is unknown to them.. further back in our history & pre-history we obviously did not have concise structures for scientific enquiry... there was so much that was beyond the realms of our understanding & i think it's a perfectly natural human impulse in the absence of any better alternatives, to make up explanations about this infinite mystery which fit into the realms of their known universe..

for all the brilliance of modern science & what that has allowed us to do, if anything, the more we learn, the less we realize we know... unfortunately (for our sense of intellectual bravado) the universe is somewhat of a fractal & the deeper you go, the bigger it gets.. so these realms of the unknown are bound to grow, the larger the realms of the known become.. which brings us to the crux...

we live in an infinitely mysterious universe which exists & manifests itself on levels that we will never be able to percieve, let alone create meaningful structures for intellectual inquiry into... to believe that science will teach us all the mysteries that brought religion into existence is as foolish as believing in god in the first place..

for collectivized knowledge science is by far our best bet, but that doesn't address the fact that there is a whole other realm of internal human experience (which, depending on the individual may or may not be consciously perceived) which is almost entirely beyond the scope of any form of science.. it cannot be measured or even talked about with any real meaning... these experiences belong to an order that we do not & possibly cannot have an adequate structure with which to define... so the original problem still & probably always will remain...

the concept of god, or religion itself i feel is extremely 'primitive..' but the fact remains that no matter how much we know, we are still & surly always will be surrounded by an (possibly) infinite mystery & to not acknowledge that that is the case & be humbled & injected with a deep sense of wonder at the bizarreness of our own existence then i feel we are missing the point entirely..

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So what would you say if you were referring to yourself?

 

Atheist...'positive atheist'

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i wonder if cro-magnans had the ability of art? anyone know the answer...? :wink:

 

I wouldn't be surprised if homo erectus had art. I'll go ask my neighbor now :wink:

Edited by botanika

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The concept that 'god' is so complicated that we cannot sufficiently comprehend is convenient for the theist thought in that it renders an idea that can be proven ridiculous anytime [god] into an idea you cannot argue against [incomprehensible god]

So people cannot grasp the notion of god completely for it is ... too much for us. They can grasp it well enough so as to dictate you can only comprehend believing it, and not in any comprehensible way of any kind...

I think religious spirituality is a big part of what we've become. I think we couldn't make it without being able to believe in any type of such things. So I think we evolved to have a god-circuit, a pattern of grasping a bigger picture, even if it's an illusional one.

What I find even more intriguing is what's the modern function of the god circuit in a modern, godless society? Is it really spiritual and important, or in the big picture it's just a kind of 'opium for the masses' thing to convince about us being really important?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

TI, I know you by now , so I know that if you respond like that to something I say, I have said something good. So, thanks!

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Edited by mutant

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i don't think its a matter of have but how, and instead of god more of a question of values, how we have become to have beliefs in what we value.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If this is your concept of god I'm worried.

 

Agreed dude,life is full of illusions,we can't say what we feel/see etc is the same as anyone elses "viewpoint" as being homogenous and proof of anything.

I like this:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o&feature=related

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i think religion and spirituality was a turning point in human development.

 

Shit yeah!

religion also helped spurn a very social complexity, and this in turn helped to develop trade, advanced language and a higher sense of awareness for surroundings(people, nature etc).

 

RELIGION HELPED!!!???

Religion has been the main cause of deceipt/death/destruction/oppression/violence/corruption/separatisation/poverty/Illusion of freedom/fear.......I actually can't think of anything positive with regards to "Religion" except the Illusion it does good.....without the underlying fact that it's about GREED and $$.

To me the past cannot be proven really albeit stories,documentation(falsified/mistakes/orders to change such writings, that have been pasted here in this thread as though they are some kind of PROOF?) and the trustworthy scientist LOL and his fine pieces of carbon-dating apparatus.....shit man 3 generations ago we couldn't have this communication,so what's around the corner?

If you weren't there then how do you know anything about the past?

Just as I chose to edit your quote to suit my angle instead of leaving it in it's entirety :P

How can you trust your memory?....I know I sometimes can't and I'm not the Lone Ranger.

They are as far as we "know" impulses of energy re-forming from an organ in our heads into a scenario that vibrates into something we "recognise" then place in "time" and say that happened yesterday at 4PM....your senses cannot connect with this at all!

Yet we trust them(some do,some question :wink:)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

TI, I know you by now , so I know that if you respond like that to something I say, I have said something good. So, thanks!

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

nah. the first paragraph was shit. the second one generalised. the rest did not bother me.

i saved a few emoticons and then made a folder called 'derisive'. then i moved about 2/3 of them into that folder. nothing like a derisive emoticon to make us both look like dickheads.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
(PhysOrg.com) -- Unusual behaviors have been observed in wild chimpanzees in West Africa in the face of grass fires. The chimps did not panic or flee, and some made ritualistic displays that suggest they understand fire and do not fear it, and they may even be able to control it. Since chimpanzees are the nearest relatives to humans, the observations may shed some light on how our early ancestors harnessed fire.

Barracuda Spam Firewall - 50,000 customers worldwide. No Per User Fees. Free Eval! - www.barracudanetworks.com

The chimpanzees faced with a wildfire appeared to monitor the fire, and showed no fear. The alpha male even performed a kind of ritualistic display toward the fire front. Anthropologist Dr Jill Pruetz from Iowa State University made the observations at her Fongoli research site in southeastern Senegal, where hot and fast-moving wildfires are common in the savannah region towards the end of the long dry season.

Dr Pruetz saw the behavior, including "fire dancing" on two occasions in 2006, and said she was surprised at how well the chimps could predict the behavior of the fires, which was better than her own ability. She said in once case there was fire on three sides, and yet the chimps remained calm, even though the flames and smoke were clearly visible. Pruetz said she thought their calmness could represent a key stage in controlling fire since it is necessary to overcome the fear before control becomes a possibility.

The leader of the group, the alpha male, emitted a barking sound unlike the usual warning calls, and then danced in a similar way to the rain dances noted by primatologist Jane Goodall, in which the chimps swayed in slow motion as thunderstorms approached. Male chimps elsewhere have been seen displaying in this way, in a slow-motion dance to show their dominance. The fire dance was a similar exaggerated dance, but directed towards the approaching blaze, and beginning when the fire sounds were quite deafening.

Dr Pruetz is convinced the chimps conceptualize fire, and it is known that captive apes can control fire. She said that if chimpanzees can understand fire, the ape-like, small-brained ancestors of humans who lived in similar habitats around five million years ago could have done the same. This means the control of fire could have occurred at a very early stage in human evolution, and long before the earliest archaeological evidence so far found of burnt remnants associated with human ancestors, which date to less than one million years ago. Dr Pruetz said the main question is why they would try to control it; what is the impetus?

Dr Pruetz is able to get close to the chimpanzees because, although they are wary of humans, they apparently do not view people as predators because people in Senegal do not eat them and consider them close relatives. The Fongoli chimpanzees, living in a habitat that is mostly grassland, are different to forest-dwelling chimps in many ways, including their habits of using caves, soaking in pools of water, and hunting with tools.

The findings are to be published in the American Journal of Physical Anthropology.

More information: Reaction to fire by savanna chimpanzees (Pan troglodytes verus) at Fongoli, Senegal: Conceptualization of fire behavior and the case for a chimpanzee model, American Journal of Physical Anthropology, DOI:10.1002/ajpa.21245

http://www.physorg.com/news183101385.html

all this talk of the evolution of religion reminded me of this. even though the chimps "dance" reflects movements toward other chimps of displays of dominance, it kind of reminds me of primitive ritualistic worship. could the chimps be displaying a primitive kind of worship?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Humans who believe in God will evolve, I believe, once they accept that evolution is a fact. Lots of things stand in the way between religion and truth. Too much, I am afraid, in this age.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×