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Heffa

Wattle We Ban Next?

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this all sounds a bit extreme, i think the community is safe while the greens still have a say in the big house... The costs of policing or eradicating certain species would be to much for our goverment to justify. These laws would almost only be aimed at large suppliers of plant material or people known by police that are doing large scale preperations.

I think the everyday guy that likes to have a few interesting plants in his garden will be safe.

If anything maybe us, as a community, needs to be a bit more aware of big brother so that our information isnt getting used against ourselves. I think in alot of ways that is the case with this situation. IMO :wacko:

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dr d,

One of the big problems with these laws is the fact that they are unenforcible. This is because they will be enforced selectively. If you are a left wing political activist and they don't like it, they will be able to arrest, charge, and convict you on the basis of a brugmansia growing in your backyard. This charge will stick in court because if these laws are in place, you will be a criminal simply for growing the plants. Allowing these laws to come into place is equivalent to giving up our rights to free speech, privacy, freedom, etc. These rights are as good as us being unprotected by law if we can be convicted of something that almost anyone in Australia could be convicted of at the discretion of those in power.

Edited by ballzac

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avoid sending 'the devils trumpet' or 'devils weed' to any christian faith type people... I don't think that would have the desired result.

hmmm anyone remember reading about how the spanish conquistadors wreaked their havoc in South America and got rid of all those pagan practices read: Ololiuqui, mushrooms and other stuff.

I don't think that sending or planting any datura family plants even needs to be done... I've send plenty of cop shops with them growing outside... and mushrooms... and poppies.

It is a fair conundrum isn't it.... do we raise consciousness to know and understand thereby maybe changing the laws that currently can oppress us... our do we continue to maintain a low profile and just keep growing those daturas, psychots and column cacti regardless of whatever they say?

The O poppy is illegal right? Well I know PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPlenty of old school gardens that have some real nice old varieties going in them. The people just like the flowers, (and they ain't setigerum either). Heck, they grow at local schools lol.

In response to the original post 'wattle we blah blah' - that is never going to happen, clearly. It is just the sort of hyped up weird misinformed sort of stuff that people love to feed on. 'ooooh the death toll is 15 now' 'oooooh they are banning wattles cause they are used by the mafia for making cocaine'. What fucken ever.

Remember NWA or was it public enemy? well... maybe don't believe the hype?

Edited by kindness

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The O poppy is illegal right? Well I know PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPlenty of old school gardens that have some real nice old varieties going in them. The people just like the flowers, (and they ain't setigerum either). Heck, they grow at local schools lol.

And every year people get prosecuted for them. Some because they grew them intentionally, others innocently. In vic the cops recently raided several large nurseries because they were still selling perennial poppies. Ebay poppy seeds sellers have been raided and prosecuted - lifes ruined.

In Qld the law now states that the sale of viable poppy seed is illegal. Sounds fanciful, but I predict that spice poppy from the supermarket will soon be unviable from the factory.

In response to the original post 'wattle we blah blah' - that is never going to happen, clearly. It is just the sort of hyped up weird misinformed sort of stuff that people love to feed on.

You are the one who is misinformed because it has already happened. These laws aren't entirely new. We already have them in two states and they are already being selectively enforced there. I suggest you actually inform yourself of the existing legislation, the proposed legislation and the court records before making such ignorant statements.

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I have availed myself of what information I am able to absorb dude. I don't follow the court cases, presedents, convictions of whatever unless it is someone I know. The point I was trying to arrogantly, (thanks for the feedback bro) make was that make acacias as illegL as dope or poppy but is not going to stop them growing in the bush. In fact logging is really giving some species a real shot at what mono cropped land and plants must feel like..

Anyhow, I say glad youse are fighting the good fight and representing. I will leave on saying that laws in some places are at times quite subjective in their enforcement. pm me some case / court reports if you could be bothered helping me learn more?

Cheers

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On 26/02/2011 at 12:51 PM, WoodDragon said:

Hey, I just realised - I've seen violets pressed into hand-made gift-wrapping paper...

Are gift shops now suppliers?

sdasaasdas

Edited by Teljkon

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If we did it as a group effort, it would be a lot harder for them to prosecute us, no? Especially if we had some media on our side...

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Just curious, with this legislation is the weight of the plant considered to be the weight of the drug?

You'd need to ask the staff first but maybe have a sign in front of a wattle in the bot gardens saying:

"If you like to view these beautiful trees in your garden you risk going to jail for.. (such and such an amount of time). If you like to pick flowers then you're well on your way to a narcotics manufacturing charge, oh and by the way this plant contains a psycho-active substance which you've never heard of because it hasn't harmed anyone, yet demands immediate law enforcement at your cost" - maybe make it more concise.

Edited by The Dude

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Just curious, with this legislation is the weight of the plant considered to be the weight of the drug?

on the face of it I would suggest that the federal law will only count the number of plants and prosecute according to the levels set for each species/group.

However, these are MODEL SCHEDULES with the aim of having them implemented into state law [as has already happened in SA and Qld for the rpevious version]. As the models are being adopted wihtou the corresponding offences, state law can then do it either way as they have both options. if you have 100 seedlings then they'll nail you for 100 plants, if you have 10 trees then they will do you for the weight.

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I know knowledge of this subject is still preliminary and it is really up to the police officer but I'm going to throw in a scenario.

So say the local 5-0 come door knocking in relation to a string of robberies/assaults/noise complaints around the neighborhood. As the approach the door, they notice a moderately sized collection of a wide variety of cacti. The police are in a pretty power hungry mood that day, and decide to confiscate the cacti and lay charges.

Say, the person mentioned above has a huge property with literally hundreds of wattle trees of all different varieties, most, if not all, possibly containing scheduled substances, which the police notice...

Would they be heading for a life sentence?

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Heads up, everyone.

There is an episode of the ABC's Australia Talks scheduled for next Wednesday, 9 March, with the running title of "Banned plants". For those who aren't familiar with the program, it's an hour-long talk-back on Radio National that is broadcast nation-wide. It's on at 6:00 pm in Eastern Australia - other time zones should check their local timetables. It's also broadcast live on the internet.

Australia Talks samples from the comments that are posted to its site, to read out during the show, and they will have two or three guest interviewees, as well as receiving calls from all around Australia. Their guests are likely to represent both pro and con, and it's quite possible that the con side will try to pull the wool over the listeners' eyes.

This is a good 11th-hour chance to get the message across, and if there's anyone who is media-savvy and clued-in on the matter, I beseech them to call in and be heard on-air. If possible, tell the producer if you're in any way 'expert', and perhaps ask to be held back a bit in the queue so that you can address any nonsense that is bound to come up. I've spoken on this program in the past, and the producer will try to get a handle on what you want to say before putting you on, so you get the chance to convince them that you're worth putting on the queue at all. People outside of the Eastern time zone can call in "live time" if they call the number 1300 22 55 76 (1300 CALL RN) during the AEST 6:00 - 7:00 pm period.

If you're not confident with the idea of speaking live to tens of thousands of Australians (and foreigners) at once, it would be better just to listen and leave it to the more eloquent folk to put our case forward. And for anyone who talks, be aware that if you ramble or go off-topic you'll be quickly canned. The idea is to make quick, important, and focussed points, and to do so in a fluent and interesting way. The more expert and relevant you sound, the longer you'll get. Don't labour on any one point - you'll be gonged - but make sure that each point you make is clear and self-evident. Usually they only give people one point or about 30 second's worth, whichever comes first, but with a bit of finesse it's possible to get a few points across.

A good strategy if you're not familiar with the program is to listen to a few other episodes first, to get an idea of how it runs. If you don't think that you can get everything across in your own effort, coordinate with others and divide up a list of points to make. In this case, best to share the list and tick off points as they are made, because repeating a point is a sure way to be quickly gonged - unless you say something to the effect that before you make your point you just want to agree with what so-an-so said.

So, the loquatious amongst us should think about calling, and the rest of us should be posting on their comments page (see the web page) as politely as we can and with as much detail as we are able to muster. Do it sooner rather than later, so that the regular ABC listeners and readers of the site can get an idea of the consequences. I'll post, but unfortunately I'll be at a seminar during the live broadcast.

This is a big chance to be heard across a wide section of Australia, and to get people to make IMMEDIATE submissions to the government - be sure to include http://www.gardenfreedom.com in your posts on the comments page.

Edited by WoodDragon
  • Like 2

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Would they be heading for a life sentence?

 

In Qld that is TECHNICALLY possible, but practically very very unlikely. Law is not just what is written, but also what the previous higher judges decide. So such an untested law would probably be challenged and hence watered down if the judge decides it is unreasonable. Judges decide on the basis of the mood of the population. So if we are in the middle of a dmt epidemic [lol] then they will probably go hard, but if they do not have that social pressure then the outcome will be better.

Realistically you probably won't get more than a slap on the wrist but the problem is that it would have probably cost you 25K in legal costs to achieve that. These laws allow law enforcement to use the legal process itself as the punishment.

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I don't think we need to post anything, 2 out of 3 (don't know where any more be) Pollies living around here will be having to explain to the constabulary why they are cultivating scheduled plants.

After all, it is our civic duty to ensure the laws of the land are adhered to :wink:

And there are processes designed to investigate police misconduct and or inaction!

And let us not forget once a precedence is set the law will take that path every time until the law is amended.

Also anyone convicted of a serious offence can never run for office again B)

Torsten hasn't the legal process itself been used as the deterrent and the punishment for the past century or two?

Edited by shortly

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In Qld that is TECHNICALLY possible...

...Realistically you probably won't get more than a slap on the wrist...

 

"slap on the wrist" doesn't exactly mean let off unscathed though does it?

Because this wouldn't be the best thing to hear if someone needed a completely clean criminal record keep their job and advance in their career.

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Heffa, that's exactly why I am against these laws the way they are written. I mean, I am against them because I love plants, but even if I agreed to a need for plant control, I would still dislike these laws because they are ambiguous and far reaching. My idea of democracy is that everyone is supposed to be equal. Bad enough that money corrupts this, but at the very least I feel our laws should be written in a way that leaves no ambiguity so that everyone knows exactly where they stand.

  • Like 3

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it's kinda funny that if this goes ahead, many of you guys would be perfectly capable of dobbing in all the right people for cultivating prohibited plants. provided you know where they live that is, which is one reason that politicians would be a good start. might not be too hard to locate judges either.

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mod delete.wrote post only realised was nonsensical last second. to many bamboo schooners :bong:

very informative discussion. thanks guys :wub:

Edited by incognito

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sdfsdfs

Edited by Teljkon
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The guest list has changed:

Guests

Peter Mouatt

Research Associate in Plant Science, Southern Cross University

Dr Anthony Kachenko

National Environmental & Technical Policy Manager Nursery and Garden Industry Australia

Professor Ian Leader-Elliott

Adjunct Professor, School of Law, University of South Australia

Dr Christian Narkowicz

School of Pharmacy, University of Tasmania

Geoff Munro

Director Policy, Australian Drug Foundation

I'm not sure where Munro will come from, so it might be worth a quick background check and preparation to counter any lobbyist ideology. The ADF's mission statement doesn't sound too promising:

What we stand for

Vision

Healthy People, Strong Communities

Mission

Working together to prevent alcohol and other drug problems in communities

Principles

* Our core interest is alcohol and other drugs

* We aim to prevent harm caused by alcohol and other drugs

* We educate and motivate Australians to prevent alcohol and other drug-related harm, particularly aiming at those aged under 30 years

* Our work is effective because it is based on sound evidence

* We are proudly independent and not-for-profit

* We seek partnerships and alliances to help us minimise alcohol and other drug harm

And Munro's bio soundly awfully right-wing... I'm more than a little worried that he has an ideological drug hammer, and that every substance that he sees will look to him (and his organisation) like a drug nail. I'm hoping that their apparent focus on alcohol indicates that they are mostly concerned about the very real problems associated with drinking, but the hint of the abstinence fervour of tee-totallers rings alarm bells for me.

Anyway, I am now just about completely without my voice, so it seems that I might miss out on both my seminar and the chance to 'phone in. I hope that others are able to catch the glossings-over that might come from someof the guests, or from government stiffs calling in.

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afsdf

Edited by Teljkon

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Sometimes I still can't believe we're hacking and slashing adults' availability to plants. I'm in the U.S. and was absolutely crushed when they banned ephedra. It was the only thing that really gave me energy by helping me to breathe easier.

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