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platypus, i'm not sure what to say. that is fucking heavy.

I had a lucid dream on the weekend. When I realised I was dreaming I tried to find someone to talk to. As soon as I entered the next room 2 people just turned straight at me with a weird stare. I wanted to talk to them and ask them questions I needed answers too, but as soon as I opened my mouth I woke up.

Does anyone have any techniques they use to stay asleep.,

 

it's akin to meditation i reckon, as soon as thoughts get stirred up you are moving very quickly towards wakefulness. the more tranquil your waking mind, the more tranquil your sleeping mind, i'm sure. you can practice as much as you want during the day, but when a dream goes lucid the game is on.

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Does anyone have any techniques they use to stay asleep.

Maybe one thing that helps me is to relax. Don't get over-excited and run off trying to do something before you wake up. Don't move, sit/stand or lie there and just look at what's around you... enjoy your immediate environment and just test out the sensations of the experience...

If you act like you have to do stuff because you might just wake up any minute, then you probably will.

But I think hypnagogic states are easier to stay in than lucid dreams... like TI said, you can usually stay in them for as long as you want.

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i actually said that hypnagogic states usually carry you off to sleep quickly, which is true for me, but maybe not all.

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I think I had my first proper lucid dream last night, though I'm still quite confused by it.

I can't recall all to much of it unfortunately, but I remember feelings where I'd be laying then I'd maybe roll over but then would not be able to stop moving where eventually it would end up there was someone or something physically forcing me. I was really confused and fairly scared by the idea and remember thinking wtf is going on, but the fact I was laying down in the dream must have sparked the thought it my head that perhaps I was dreaming. I really could't tell at the time, but then at another point where I was walking in this dark space ad again I started being physically forced by nothing, which then turned into unrecognisable people doing it. By this stage I was questioning whether or not what was happening was real again, and really wanted to get out as I was very uncomfortable, so I started trying to pay attention to detail and noticed things that I just knew in my gut weren't real. In doing so things started to calm down dramatically to the point where I was able to pause these people, who had turned into recognisable people, and move around freely whilst changing their identities. I don't remember much after this point, although I was still confused as to the whole situation and what I had done, but knew I was safe.

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I think I had my first proper lucid dream last night, though I'm still quite confused by it.

I can't recall all to much of it unfortunately, but I remember feelings where I'd be laying then I'd maybe roll over but then would not be able to stop moving where eventually it would end up there was someone or something physically forcing me. I was really confused and fairly scared by the idea and remember thinking wtf is going on, but the fact I was laying down in the dream must have sparked the thought it my head that perhaps I was dreaming. I really could't tell at the time, but then at another point where I was walking in this dark space ad again I started being physically forced by nothing, which then turned into unrecognisable people doing it. By this stage I was questioning whether or not what was happening was real again, and really wanted to get out as I was very uncomfortable, so I started trying to pay attention to detail and noticed things that I just knew in my gut weren't real. In doing so things started to calm down dramatically to the point where I was able to pause these people, who had turned into recognisable people, and move around freely whilst changing their identities. I don't remember much after this point, although I was still confused as to the whole situation and what I had done, but knew I was safe.

 

So you were asleep when this happened or lying in bed but awake? Sounds like you weren't sure... so I think this might be a hypnagogic state/OBE experience, as opposed to a lucid dream, where the experience is more fantasy-based and dream-like, and usually doesn't happen in your own home.

Rolling/floating/spinning is pretty common OBE and pre-OBE phenomenon... Especially being 'forced' uncontrollably in some direction... they call it astral wind. If you get into that situation again, try spinning on the spot to break free of the 'force'. Like a spinning top you gain your own momentum and get a hold of yourself. Then try jumping and flying! I'm Peter Pan bitch!!

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Now that you mention it I'm not entirely sure, before hand though I just assumed I was asleep and dreaming.

I don't know if this adds much but where I was in real life was a place very strange for me to have slept there, whereas during the experience I was in a very dark space, which felt like I hadn't been there before, if it was even a 'real' place at all.

That's really quite interesting the astral wind, had not heard of it before. But will try that if I experience something like that again.

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i don't know if you would call it lucid dreaming, in a way i guess it is, Anyhow to the point others who have no effect from most ethnobotanical dream herbs may find this interesting

some of my most lucid dreams have been when using nicotine patches, usually unpleasant dreams related to things in the past where you may even wake up sobbing, but the recall of nicotine induced dreams is freaky to the point you can think about it for days :blink:

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I don't know if this adds much but where I was in real life was a place very strange for me to have slept there, whereas during the experience I was in a very dark space, which felt like I hadn't been there before, if it was even a 'real' place at all.

This is very interesting, because sleeping in an unfamiliar place is often a trigger for hypnagogic experiences. I've had the strongest ones (usually with complete body paralysis and phantom limb movements) after falling asleep on the couch, or at the library or something. I'm not sure whether the reason is because you're more aware of your environment as you fall asleep in an unfamiliar place, or because you tend to fall asleep in weird places simply when you're over-tired (which happens to be another common trigger).

As for the dark space, perhaps you had a case of 'astral blindness'. I used to have a serious problem with this, where I'd have many OBEs, but would be stumbling around in the dark, unable to touch and feel things, (sometimes I could imagine or see visions of things, but generally be unable to see in real-life detail). Maybe it wasn't a case of 'blindness', but certainly being able to hear, touch and feel forces in a dark environment is the stereotypical situation for an OBE experience. I find I get get detailed vision in the accidental experiences - like projecting from a lucid dream or during the hypnopompic state (waking up). If I consciously try to astral project when going to sleep, blindness is often a problem.

i don't know if you would call it lucid dreaming, in a way i guess it is, Anyhow to the point others who have no effect from most ethnobotanical dream herbs may find this interesting

some of my most lucid dreams have been when using nicotine patches, usually unpleasant dreams related to things in the past where you may even wake up sobbing, but the recall of nicotine induced dreams is freaky to the point you can think about it for days :blink:

 

That's also interesting because standard practice from doctors for people who get a range of sleep disorders (like sleepwalking, night terrors, etc.) is that they mustn't smoke before bed. Apparently nicotine is a stimulant, and stimulants in general increase the chances of having sleep-related experiences. Caffeine and alcohol are also bad. Basically anything that messes with the body's natural process of sleep.

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When I need to stay asleep I literally try to "forget" that I'm aware of the dream. I immediately look at something and focus on it, forcing more thoughts, more observation. I lose some of the lucid aspect but it works.

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I can't not have lucid dreams. I'v had them; along with sleepwalking/talking/extreme hypnagogic hallucinogenia since I was a youngster, as well as almost permamenet insomnia. The sleep I do have is almost always that deep type, almost immediately plunged into incredibly bizarre dreamscapes- which iteself can almost immediately wake me up.

In my own experience, cannabis dulls this a fair bit; caffeine stimulates it; any psychedelic or entheogen colours it darkly, and removes luciditiy to a degree; opiates make lucidity total. I would say that the lucid "dream" state feels like returning to an ongoing train of thought that is supressed during "waking" moments.

An interesting phenomemon is deja vu within a dream, or the sense of "waking" life having the same ethereal quality that dreamland does, just inverted. A frigtening feeling is a dream within a dream- if this happens (for me) it tends to be multiple layers of dream-wthin-ness. The sense of deja vu almost feels dangerous.

See you in your dreams ahahahaha....sorry :D

 

Two odd years ago not long after starting ropinirole (a dopamine-receptor agonist) for Restless Legs Syndrome, I had a dream in which I'd "woken" up to six or seven times to almost-same scenarios, like a dream Groundhog Day. I'd "wake up" and go through the loungeroom to the kitchen to make a cup of tea (as is my normal morning routine), but it would look and feel like a horror-house-carnival-ride type version of my house, with a recurrent elephant. Ropinirole pretty much always gives me far more lucid dreams than I normally have (which are pretty vivid anyway) just before I wake; and almost always with a dark edge right up to downright deeply disturbing content. They also feel distinctly different to a regular nightmare somehow.

The other morning pre-waking, I dreamt vividly of reliving the death of much-loved pets and bawling my eyes out the entire time of the dream. Then I woke up. Went back to sleep trying to get happy thoughts going then ended up dreaming I'd "googled" into the satnav system in my parents' car, somehow causing their brakes to fail and to crash - thankfully not dying - but was still my fault! Needed more sleep but decided to get up anyway.

So I wonder how much brain chemistry is going on to influence aspects of dreams.

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Benzo's seem to prevent REM sleep. hence the vivid dreams when you on it.

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These ideas of using herbs intrigues me... There has got to be something out there in nature that can aid in controlled dreaming whilst staying asleep.

I can be fully aware that I am dreaming without waking up, the problem is, if I try to control the dream, the effort seems to wake me..

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L-Dopa extract from velvet bean makes me dream. The last few days of 5HTP and GABA have brought some interesting dreams.

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I've been experimenting with Calea zacatechichi the last couple of weeks and had some pretty positive results so far, including a couple of times where I believe I was on the edge of having an OBE - That extreme sense of energy all over your body as if it's vibrating and tingling, and what sounded like strong gusts of wind blowing right past my ear. Though each time I lose it as I get quite excited. Dream recall has been improved and the vividness has also increased.

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