rahli Posted March 29, 2011 What the hell is getup doing going well out of their way to back the government on an issue that was strongly opposed by a significant number of it's members. I think I smell a rat!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ballzac Posted March 29, 2011 (edited) Do I have to 'like' Brendan O'Connor MP in order to participate in the discussion? EDIT: I don't use facebook very much Edited March 29, 2011 by ballzac Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted March 29, 2011 Hey Torsten, check out GetUp coming to Brendan's rescue on FB! yep, loving the fact they jumped in. That means even if I don't get any satisfaction with the minister's office at least I can shred GetUp for what they did. I am curious about the reply the minister is supposedly going to send. If they answer my question then they either have to admit the impact or they have to outright deny what is written in the proposal. Though I am not holding my breath. Given the nonsensical babble that dom got as a reply I doubt they can actually answer that question. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
J Smith Posted March 29, 2011 I wonder how many calm, sensible, well worded fb questions it would take before they just started deleting them? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WoodDragon Posted March 29, 2011 Do I have to 'like' Brendan O'Connor MP in order to participate in the discussion? Like Ballzac I'm wondering what else one has to do besides having a FB account in order to comment. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mescalito Posted March 29, 2011 Firstly T YOU said that you would pm me after your holiday and now ya havin a go in the public domain and making things worse! I trust you no more LOL.....you're just pissed at me. All could have been abated with a simple "friendly,non-judgmental PM! Geez, so much misinformation. Secondly, mescalito, proposals that are unopposed usually sail through the legislation process with little or no amendment. proposals are released because the minister feels that they would make good laws! Why else spend millions of dollars on such a process? Umm because that's what they do to keep their fat checks in the bank for when they retire.They have their drugs. Your suggestion of sitting back and waiting to see what happens would have gotten us exactly those laws - there is no question about it. That's exactly what happened with the first version - how else do you think we ended up with the model schedules in the first place? Whoa up on the attacks please T, you must've been foaming at the mouth as I corrected your typo's^^^^^...that makes you look like a raving looney bashing the keyboard and not looking at what you are writing....calm down,we now have time! Why is there no question about it? Because you say so? If you maybe had have given some people(not just me) the reasons how we ended up with the model schedules in the first place,WE might have had a better understanding. If you think the result would have been any different this time around you're either a hopeless optimist or a complete idiot.... neither of which is helpful in the real world.It's almost like you guys haven't read the damn thing and are just making up whatever story scores the most tinfoil hat points. Umm are you addressing ME or "you guys" ? Nice touch with the tinfoil hat thing ROTFLMAO. Hopeless...no way I'm recovering and have a Family Idiot...not so far as I, nor my peers would say or think of me. FYI someone had to play the Devil's Advocate,stir the pot,yes that was part of my agenda,to get people thinking laterally as well. I'm pretty sure no-one did sit back and just wait....and I think you underestimate my strength and progress,understanding and coping mechanisms with "my problems"...so can we drop the "mesc is fucked up on Benzo's" and "Paranoid" shit please? I know more about this shit than you will ever understand and I function extremely well under the circumstances thank you...this shit hit the fan after the most dangerous dose drop.....yet you knew about the proposal well before someone else posted it? Please explain,don't PM me. I have since re-instated due to the seriousness at this point.AKA life v Death. And if you know so much about "my type",then you wouldn't have approached things in such a way as to ramp up the symptoms the way you did! Besides I exhausted ALL resources I could in my town and via the Internets to get the message out,just not to dick-heads. Thirdly - stories of conspiracies and AFP taking pics etc make this community look ridiculous. Paranoia is a major symptom of GABA depletion/dysfunction so not surprising from mesc, but what is everyone else's excuse? get a grip folks. Really? I must re-read my Benzo-Wise Recovery Manual,Ashton Manual,practice more EFT,oh and shit I forgot it's pasted in the huge list of "possible symptoms" everywhere..damn! BTW there is someone walking around outside right now,there has been a lot of bashings and break-in's in this immediate area.The dog's are going off tap and I just spotted someone in the next door neighbors yard,they saw me come out back and hiked it. So what is everyone elses excuse?....I am actually asking that to everyone here? I don't drink nor smoke or take any other drugs......it's part of the protocol. Why didn't they just go to the Botanical Gardens? Because it was bullshit! And lastly, why would the current mescaline wording be a better outcome than having a list of species scheduled? With the current wording all of the common mescaline sources, plus any cactus that tests positive can land you in jail, while a list of species will at least give some certainty as to what is still legal. ie would you rather lose access to all the genera listed on gardenfreedom [about a dozen?] or would you prefer if just 2 or 3 genera were listed? Keeping in mind that local seed sales, seed trades and seed imports will be covered by the law as well. I still don't think the people would stand for this...and where would they put us all?....not just this tiny spec of plant collectors on this tiny forum. btw, if anyone still doesn't know, this proposal was commissioned by Kevin Rudd when he was PM. That's a fact. It is my conjecture that the dismal quality of this proposal was due to the leadership change and the uncertainty in the public service at the time. I think both aspects can be exploited in the fight against it. Would have been nice to know and yeah and she fucked off to the U.S. at the time,I don't watch TV or trust politicians. My life doesn't revolve around plants alone,but I've done what I can thus far. That story didn't come from mesc, it came via me, but from someone who rarely frequents the forums. Thanks for pointing this out dude,T must have missed that part. What the hell is getup doing going well out of their way to back the government on an issue that was strongly opposed by a significant number of it's members. I think I smell a rat!!! rahli,you're just paranoid I'll put the bat down if you stop throwing the ball T ,it's beyond ridiculous. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rahli Posted March 29, 2011 rahli,you're just paranoid mescalito you are right. Next time I'll think twice before using this thread as my own private pissing post. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted March 30, 2011 Firstly T YOU said that you would pm me after your holiday got better things to do. you must've been foaming at the mouth as I corrected your typo's^^^^^...that makes you look like a raving looney bashing the keyboard No idea what you are talking about. Why is there no question about it? Because you say so? If you maybe had have given some people(not just me) the reasons how we ended up with the model schedules in the first place,WE might have had a better understanding. There is no question about it because there are hundreds of precedents. look at the NT intervention - thousands of submissions and not a single substantial edit to the draft. Look at any of the plant schedules and have a read of the 'record of reason' where they thank everyone for the input and then ignore every bit of it. So why don't you ask about why we have model schedules int he first place rather than making nonsensical statements? I did my research and made my comments and actions based on that research. if your research is lacking then why attack my actions? Umm are you addressing ME or "you guys" ? Nice touch with the tinfoil hat thing ROTFLMAO. Since the hamiltons story had nothing to do with you I wonder why you think my comment was about you? or maybe you just made my point about being paranoid [one that i wasn't even trying to make]. FYI someone had to play the Devil's Advocate,stir the pot,yes that was part of my agenda,to get people thinking laterally as well. Thinking laterally si always a good diea if you're actually playing with a full set of cards. Coming up with alternative ideas that completely ignore history [like you did] is just a waste of time. I know more about this shit than you will ever understand and I function extremely well under the circumstances thank you...this shit hit the fan after the most dangerous dose drop.....yet you knew about the proposal well before someone else posted it? I presume you are talkign about two different sets of shit in the previous sentence? or are you saying you know more about the legislation than i ever will? Are we now measuring time scales in terms of your treatment? As important as that might be to you, it means diddly squat to most others, incl me. I knew about the proposal the day after tripsis posted it here. However for me the existing legislation that this proposal seeks to amend and the general political process these things take is extremely familiar. So while everyone else was still trying to decipher the proposal I already had a pretty good idea of the whole background, including why the federal influence is growing and why certain plants are on there. I still don't think the people would stand for this...and where would they put us all?....not just this tiny spec of plant collectors on this tiny forum. You mean like how there was a revolution when pretty much exactly these schedules were implemented in SA and Qld? I must have missed it. Or maybe you've got your head in the clouds. You are also not getting what the ACTUAL implications are. These laws are not about locking everyone up. I have stated this numerous times in this thread: These laws are designed to give LE powers they can use selectively. eg, two yards, both with Trichocereus in them, one owned by old granny, the other by a hippy. Neighbours complain about potential drug consumption at the hippy's house [not enough for a warrant] so the cops can now enter the hippy's yard because he is growing a known drug plant [but they don't have to do the same at granny's place]. THAT'S what the law is about. It is also no longer about intent, which is what state laws are based on [ie if you can PROVE that you had no drug intentions then you are innocent]. The fed law is based on recklessness. That means that ignorance is no longer an excuse. Thanks for pointing this out dude,T must have missed that part. Nope, at no point did I attribute that story to you, so not sure why tripsis assumed so and why you bought into it too. I'll put the bat down if you stop throwing the ball T ,it's beyond ridiculous. If you stop posting ridiculous stuff about this proposal then I am happy to drop it, but as long as you keep adding uninformed 'alternatives' I will dismantle them. Your uninformed 'stirring' has wasted a huge amount of valuable time that would ahve been far better spent hassling the minister. These days I value my time more than just about anything else and hence I very quickly develop a dislike for people who waste it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ballzac Posted March 30, 2011 Not sure how constructive this all is in relation to the topic. I realise that you, Mescalito, have expressed opinions that relate to the topic at hand and, regardless of whether others agree with you or not, you are entitled to express those opinions in this thread. However, the majority of this discussion between both of you has little to do with the actual topic, and I can't really see how most of it is helping. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tripsis Posted March 30, 2011 I knew about the proposal the day after tripsis posted it here. To give credit where credit is due, madhouse visites actually posted it here. I just took it very seriously from the beginning and made a submission to GetUp about in the hope that they would actually care. Nope, at no point did I attribute that story to you, so not sure why tripsis assumed so and why you bought into it too. My bad, I misread your post. Anyway, the point was that that story didn't stem from the paranoia of anyone here (not an active member anyway), but from someone who for some reason appears that they felt compelled to lie to me about it. Unfortunately, it doesn't really seem to matter that it was a lie, it is likely that at least some of these proposed changes will come into effect and we'll lose our rights to legally grow even more plants. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Francois le Danque Posted April 4, 2011 how come on the facebook page i can see what appear to be o'connor's replies to things, such as one addressed to "nick", but there is no original post BY this person? do i need to do something to be able to see the full conversation? also is it any use to pester the asshole at his email address? i mean sure it's fun, i'm just wondering if it will amount to anything. is he obligated to reply to any personal emails? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yeti101 Posted April 4, 2011 Depends what you mean by pestering. Harassing the minister is at best unhelpful and at at worst could jeopardise serious efforts to fight the proposal. I think one polite and well-reasoned email would not hurt. If you want to correspond with O'Connor, go for snail-mail instead (write one to your MP while you are at it). You will generally get a reply, even if it is usually not the one you want. I don't know about ministers, but I think MP's are obligated to reply to letters, though not necessarily to emails. As for the FB page, you probably need to click on 'view all 15 comments' or something like that. Also, not all comments will appear unless you are logged into FB - eg Torsten's last two comments on Brendan's page don't appear to me unless I'm logged in. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted April 4, 2011 the minister sent a mesage today saying that they will not reply by email and that i need to provide a snail mail address. It took them a week to get that far - I wonder how long the actual reply will take Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sola Posted April 5, 2011 I've heard bugger all in the media about this proposed legislation, similarly conservation groups involved in preserving our native flora and fauna have been very quiet, at least in my area. Indigenous groups must be furious about this as well, where are their voices. Public discussion my arse. Are there any countries that aren't ruled by short-sighted greed mongers with even worse legislation to legitimise their agenda. If there's anywhere left on this planet where people can truly be free, please tell me because I'm emigrating there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
qualia Posted April 5, 2011 can someone please tell me why swainsona formosa falls under the legislation? i'm having a hard time finding any info Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ThunderIdeal Posted April 5, 2011 (edited) wisteria was in the dmt list at garden freedom. edit actually both were under dmt Edited April 5, 2011 by ThunderIdeal Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
qualia Posted April 5, 2011 yeah i mean pharmacological studies, not just anecdotal .. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
∂an Posted April 6, 2011 Like Ballzac I'm wondering what else one has to do besides having a FB account in order to comment. yeah if you like him the comment box appears. I wonder if you can like, comment, then unlike and keep the message up? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ballzac Posted April 6, 2011 I don't really wanna have "Zac likes Brendan O'Connor MP" on my facebook page, lol. Not that I really use it much, but it would still be embarrassing, lol. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
∂an Posted April 6, 2011 I don't really wanna have "Zac likes Brendan O'Connor MP" on my facebook page, lol. Not that I really use it much, but it would still be embarrassing, lol. my thinking too. might be a good way to get peoples attention though... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Francois le Danque Posted April 6, 2011 Depends what you mean by pestering. Harassing the minister is at best unhelpful and at at worst could jeopardise serious efforts to fight the proposal. yeah sorry i should have qualified, i didn't mean i plan to send him spam being like "you are a cunt lol" (it's true though) but rather serious queries on such things as his assistants' insistence (there's a tongue twister) that native plants are not covered, when they clearly are. this is mainly because i was not aware of these statements (if they had even been made yet) when i submitted my submission, not because i want to be a trouble maker ;) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shortly Posted April 13, 2011 I know its somewhat off track, and a very long tread but it does seem to show a pattern of behavior from government depts in the way they wield power in a "consultative manner" http://www.aquariumlife.com.au/showthread.php/27312-Biosecurity-appeals-rejected Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marcel Posted April 25, 2011 I just looked at Brendan O'Connor's facebook page. Among his favourite books is "Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas" and among his favourite movies is Ken Kesey's "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest". Need I say any more? Case closed, ladies and gentlemen. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yeti101 Posted April 25, 2011 Has Weeds as one of his favourite tv shows Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
