Magicdirt Posted March 20, 2011 (edited) ` Edited May 8, 2011 by Magicdirt Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ballzac Posted March 20, 2011 I don't believe there is any constitutional protection for use of sacraments in a religious setting in Australia, though I'm happy to be corrected if I'm wrong. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hutch Posted March 20, 2011 Australian church of Shamanism ? Religious beliefs are tricky ground for prosecutors in a court. Maybe if we were all registered members of a so called church well before the legislation comes in (if it does get through) it could offer some insulation if any legal difficulties arise later on. I will join...hell I will even build the alter Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DarkSpark Posted March 20, 2011 I don't believe there is any constitutional protection for use of sacraments in a religious setting in Australia, though I'm happy to be corrected if I'm wrong. I think that is the case as well, sadly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alchemica Posted March 20, 2011 "What a dopey idea" Our treasured floral emblems may join marijuana on blacklist THE national and SA floral emblems will join marijuana as banned plants under a Federal law proposal. The Sturt Desert Pea and several species of wattle - the national floral emblem - and many other popular plants such as wisteria and ornamental cacti would also be included on the List of Controlled Plants because they contain traces of naturally occurring drugs, according to a document released by the Attorney-General's Department. Law experts and the nursery industry say the proposed changes will make it illegal to sell these plants. The Law Society of SA said while possession of these plants would not be illegal, nurseries selling them would face the same penalties - up to life in jail - as those caught trafficking large quantities of marijuana. "In reality, what they are doing is those people in nurseries could be prosecuted exactly the same as those trafficking in cannabis," society president Ralph Bonig said. The proposed changes are detailed in a discussion paper titled Implementation of Model Schedules for Commonwealth Serious Drug Offences, which was released by the Attorney-General's Department. In a submission to the discussion paper last week, Nursery and Gardening Industry Australia said the proposal would "have huge repercussions on the Australian nursery industry and the wider gardening public". The CEO of the SA branch of the industry body, Geoffrey Fuller, urged the Government to use "common sense" and review its proposal or jobs could be lost and small businesses could go to the wall. "The Government has not thought this through - some bureaucrat has made an arbitrary list of plants but a more scientific approach must be taken," he said. Mr Fuller said the levels of drugs in these plants were sometimes so low that tonnes of plant material would be needed to produce any consumable quantity of the drug. "It beggars belief that someone would go into a person's garden to steal these plants and turn them into drugs for consumption," he said. The Government's discussion paper acknowledges the proposals could have "adverse impacts on industry". The Minister responsible for Drug Strategy, Brendan O'Connor, said "some ingredients used for manufacturing illegal drugs are contained in commonly occurring plants". "However, the Commonwealth's drug laws target people who are involved in the illicit drug trade and that will continue to be the case." With the consultation period ending on Friday, the Minister said he will now "consider the views presented and determine appropriate action". Detective Superintendent Scott Duval, Officer in Charge, SA Drug Investigation Branch, said "there is little evidence of criminality associated with these plants as cannabis is by far the predominant controlled plant sold, supplied and trafficked". HERE is the list of plants proposed to be banned for sale under new Federal legislation: * Any plant containing mescaline, includes the ornamental Beavertail cactus and tree-like cactus Tunillo. * Any plant containing dimethyltryptamine, includes the Sturt's desert pea, several wattles such as Maiden's wattle tree, common reed and reed canary grass. * Kratom - South-East Asian tree. * Khat - African shrub. * Diviner's Sage - Mexican mint. * Any species of ephedra - includes European joint pine and green joint-fir. * Any species of brugmansia/datura - includes angel's trumpets. Source: Attorney-General's Department and Nursery & Garden Industry Australia --- To clarify current state legislation see pg 23 here Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted March 20, 2011 From what I understand the constitutional freedom of religion does not apply to the states so the only places where you could mount such a challenge is in ACT and NT. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tripsis Posted March 21, 2011 (edited) I have two interesting pieces of information I've been told recently. The first. At the most recent CSSNSW meeting, the feds turned up asking to photograph some of the cacti their, namely Trichos and Lophs. They also told the members of the society that they would be allowed to keep whatever plants they already had, just not get more. The second. Someone I know heard from a retired senior AFP officer that there is a secret list of plants containing the targetted chemicals that officers with be on the lookout for, regardless of how high or low the content may be. Seems to me that the government has every intention of implementing these laws and getting to work on them immediately. Feels like a storm is brewing... Edited March 23, 2011 by tripsis Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tripsis Posted March 21, 2011 The Law Society of SA said while possession of these plants would not be illegal, nurseries selling them would face the same penalties - up to life in jail - as those caught trafficking large quantities of marijuana. Is that a fact, that possession of these plants will remain legal, but selling/trading, etc., will be illegal? Detective Superintendent Scott Duval, Officer in Charge, SA Drug Investigation Branch, said "there is little evidence of criminality associated with these plants as cannabis is by far the predominant controlled plant sold, supplied and trafficked". Not surprising in the slightest. Not that it matters to the government, it's only a façade to extend their hand of control over this country. So far these proposed changes are are only serving to educate people about which plants contain which drugs. I for one had no idea that Sturt's desert peas and leopard trees contained DMT, nor that Stenocereus treleasei contained mescaline. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
altenate Posted March 21, 2011 According to the suggestions at the Getup site,as of today, it doesnt look or seem like they want to get involved at the moment for various reasons That might be old news. Are receiving 'donations' the same as trading or selling? Beside all that there are now a hell of lot more plants that i need to collect. Going to be busy....Whos got what before time runs out??Is there a date for this implementation?? This could start abuying frenzy. btw I have to say thanks to all who have helped me out in the past with various things... Maybe we need to start a seed bank like the one in Nth Europe. (forgot the name of the place)Whos got a massive Fridge/freezer? prob needs to be the size of a small town. Could be a group collective/co-op style of thing. We would therefore all own the plants etc that were donated by members & use/ grow them as needed. Now thats a big garden spanning many climates.Ha got to store these seeds & genetic material until they potentially change their minds as to how stupid all this is... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
synchromesh Posted March 21, 2011 The Minister responsible for Drug Strategy, Brendan O'Connor, said "some ingredients used for manufacturing illegal drugs are contained in commonly occurring plants"."However, the Commonwealth's drug laws target people who are involved in the illicit drug trade and that will continue to be the case." What's your point, O'Connor? That the proposed drug laws would be nothing like the Commonwealth drug laws? Curious name for the proposal then, isn't it? Implementation of Model Schedules for Commonwealth Serious Drug Offences Detective Superintendent Scott Duval, Officer in Charge, SA Drug Investigation Branch, said "there is little evidence of criminality associated with these plants as cannabis is by far the predominant controlled plant sold, supplied and trafficked". Surely that should mean something to the authoritarians? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shortly Posted March 21, 2011 Is that a fact, that possession of these plants will remain legal, but selling/trading, etc., will be illegal? Since a a few Brugs & number of species that can contain mesc are currently permissible imports, does that mean we cant buy them from bunnings anymore but we can still import them? So far these proposed changes are are only serving to educate people about which plants contain which drugs. I for one had no idea that Sturt's desert peas and leopard trees contained DMT, nor that Stenocereus treleasei contained mescaline. Your not the only one, i've learnt more about these particular drugs in the past few months than i had in the past 30 years What plants have them & what plants sometimes have them & other times not, one population does and the next doesn't They should definitely legislate to ensure absolute uniformity within all species, its time we put a stop to all nasty, messy diversity. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
migraineur Posted March 21, 2011 Could anyone tell me when this ban would likely take effect if it were to happen? SWIM might want to order lots of things from SAB if it's going to happen soon. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
synchromesh Posted March 21, 2011 A few people have already answered this. The consensus is approximately 2 years from memory. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
migraineur Posted March 21, 2011 Thanks, man. So I've still got plenty of time to build up my ethno garden before I have to get rid of it =P Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mescalito Posted March 21, 2011 (edited) Not yet.... Edited March 21, 2011 by mescalito Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mescalito Posted March 22, 2011 (edited) I have some interesting pieces of information I've been told recently. At the most recent CSSNSW meeting, the feds turned up asking to photograph some of the cacti their, namely Trichos and Lophs. Someone I know heard from a retired senior AFP officer that there is a secret list of plants containing the targetted chemicals that officers with be on the lookout for, regardless of how high or low the content may be. Seems to me that the government has every intention of implementing these laws and getting to work on them immediately. Feels like a storm is brewing... Tripsis can you prove this please? Not just second-hand info either,I posted something last night in response,therefore the retraction.I'm NOT getting in the shit if you jumped the gun!!!! I have a STRONG feeling I'm being watched dude,so I need to know. A criminal I aint man. Secondly why since the post has no-one else questioned the source? I think I will make a phone call to confirm today. I wrote a lengthy email to T a few nights ago and he said he didn't have time to respond as he was rushing to go on Holidays....if repeating that get's me in the shit so be it. I was doing the right thing by PM'ing him and told him some candid facts about myself explaining his mis-conception of my "poor drug-choice"..Y'all know I'm an Accidental Addict yeah? Like Prescribed and not given the facts,doc constantly upping the dose etc yeah? Scraped up the cash to buy http://www.benzo.org.uk/images/bzwise2.jpg Is he off to Mexico? How does this affect us as collectors? How do you know and who the fuck is Michael? Never sat well with me from day dot and now look...... Edited March 24, 2011 by mescalito Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tripsis Posted March 22, 2011 (edited) Tripsis can you prove this please? No, I can't. This is what I've been told, I'm just passing it on. Edited March 22, 2011 by tripsis Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shortly Posted March 22, 2011 I have a STRONG feeling I'm being watched dude,so I need to know. This forum and likely numerous others are being monitored by the feds, they said so in the background paper that was released with the discussion paper. So its not exactly a secret. And get used to being watched dude. The commonwealth has been paying a fortune in grants to ACERA to develop software that can "harvest data of interest from mobile phones and across the WWW". I have no idea how far away it is? Again not exactly top secret since it was on the ABC news and is all over the ACERA web page & newsletters. It could be the same software the SA Gov unveiled today that is touted as being to track down paedophiles? Calm down, being watched is just a fact of life in the nanny state, get used to it. Big brother isn't going away & neither are we. If its any consolation 99.99% of us are just pains in the ass, with all our crap that is of bugger all interest to anyone, so until the system is entirely automated we can all smile at the hundreds or thousands of hours the powers that be have to pour over our shite Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mescalito Posted March 22, 2011 (edited) Shortly...red,blue and spotlights mean anything? Quote"No, I can't. This is what I've been told, I'm just passing it on." In time you will see your source is well to say the least not the best AKA FOS. Ask Kim. And now for something completely different Edited March 22, 2011 by mescalito Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tripsis Posted March 22, 2011 In time you will see your source is well to say the least not the best AKA FOS.Ask Kim. Can you explain that a bit? I'm not getting you... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mescalito Posted March 22, 2011 NUP,hoping Kim will clear up this misleading information as it was all news to her. Picked up the Alexander and spoke to her. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tripsis Posted March 22, 2011 Really? That's interesting, I really see no reason why I would have been told a lie. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mescalito Posted March 23, 2011 (edited) OK well I did actually call Kim at Hamilton's and asked if this was the case. She was quite surprised and said "Absolutely not the case" there were no Fed's at the meeting,no photo's. She's familiar with the Consultation and this forum.She also agreed that it was a ridiculous proposal (as we all do)and a but stupid to spread this so wide to the general public for various reasons. i.e. damage to the ecology,public safety,fools going off half cocked using a little knowledge and causing damage to themselves,job losses,impingement on personal collectors...all the reasons myself and others feared by over advertising it. She was(hopefully will) join and have her say,I was waiting for her to post especially about the misinformation about the apparent Fed's turning up....she wasn't happy about that at all.(considering old goggle eyes hits bringing it to the top of the WWW) Oh and about the spotlights and red and blue,well there have been lots of vandalism and group bashing's around here lately.So excuse me for being a tad edgy,especially when my cacti can be seen plain as day and just today a Bluey knocked on the door! Turned out they wanted to know if I heard anything the night before,as there was a group of vandals who broke in to a school nearby and stole money,food and wrecked the joint. Imagine how I felt when I opened the door If anyone has doubts http://www.cactus-mall.com/hamilton/ has the contact details on the main page. Now are we all on the same page and friends? Please no more attacks for standing up for myself,trusting my gut....as for using my personal battles against me....well that was weak...I'm just honest and up-front. Always have been. Peace Edit:"Really? That's interesting, I really see no reason why I would have been told a lie." Same reason anybody lies Edited March 23, 2011 by mescalito 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tripsis Posted March 23, 2011 Well I must say that is good to know, but I'm still really quite surprised at having been blatantly lied to. My apologies to April and Hamilton's. I'm happy to edit my post to take their names out of it, but you'll have to do the same in your quote of me Mesc. I would really like to know why I was lied to. This is not just some random person either, many of you probably know him, but I suppose I best not name names now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
