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J Smith

Consultation on implementation of model drug schedules for Commonwealth serious drug offences

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Here is the latest response from the Getup admin via Kate.

Hi Everyone,

First off I'd like to extend a sincere apology for not getting back to you sooner with this response - its been an incredibly busy week in the GetUp office. I've been kept busy organising a delegation of refugees to visit Federal Parliament and unfortunately, I haven't had a moment to respond until now. GetUp, as I"m sure you can appreciate, has very limited resources and moderating this site is just one of my responsibilities. I'm sorry to anyone who was put out by this delay.

In regards to the questions asked about why GetUp declined to take on this campaign, I'd like to assure you we've researched quite extensively into your suggestion. Several of the team have taken the time to go through the paper, "Consultation on implementation of model drug schedules for Commonwealth serious drug offences" in detail. In addition, we've made sure to consult with the Attorney General's office and a criminal law professor at UNSW.

What we found was that many concerns raised in this thread about the law changes proposed were actually pointed out within the discussion paper itself, as issues that needed to be overcome.

There were two particularly that stood out to us. A number of participants here raised concerns that collectors of rare plants may be negatively affected by new legislation. This particular concern is actually anticipated within the dicussion paper, which notes that "The collection and use of certain plants by botanists and collectors raises the question of whether there is a need for a legitimate use defence, and on what grounds this would be available" (page 21). In other words, the paper anticipates that there will need to be exceptions drawn into any law changes that protect botanists and collectors of plants.

Another section which raised concerns is the table "Attachment 2.4: The Model Schedules - List of Controlled Plants" (page 38). This table does state that "any plant containing DMT" could be put on the controlled plants list. Some GetUp members have drawn the conclusion that this may affect many plants which are native to Australia. We decided that this warranted further attention and got in touch with the Attorney General's office, where a spokesperson gave us this statement:

"We recognise that some ingredients used for manufacturing illegal drugs are contained in commonly occurring plants. However, claims that backyard plants will be banned or their growers prosecuted is inaccurate. The Commonwealth’s drug laws target people who are involved in the illicit drug trade. This will continue to be the case."

The key focus of the discussion paper throughout, and the target of the proposed changes is to prevent the flow of funds to organised crime, via the supply of illegal drugs, not to target legitimate use of these plants.

In short, we don't believe the practical implications of this paper are as bad some commenters fear. It is also important to note this discussion paper is merely a consultaton paper. It's also a consultation paper which very clearly outlines gaps and issues with the work undertaken so far, and we've drawn the conclusion that the details which are of concern will continue to be worked out. As such, we don't believe that there is adequate risk posed to native plant species to run a campaign. We will monitor the situation over the coming months and we definitely encourage any members who have a concern about the discussion paper to lodge it wtih the Attorney Generals office. As for the moment, though, we will not be campainging on this particular issue.

 

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i'm surprised they took that statement at it's word,

considering the trouble they've had getting tony abbot to surf with he refugees

anyway a few of the getup posts showed some responses from the greens to someone,

some of them seemed to hold some glimmers of hope,

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The problem with the Attorney General's office's claims that collectors won't be affected, and with Kate's acceptance of this claim, is that there is no explicit exemption on this basis. The wordings are such that the schedule offers law enforcement a possession/cultivation trigger for arrest, no matter the innocence of the grower or the stated intention of the Attorney General.

Such a circumstance will inevitably lead to misuse of power. Anyone remember Mamdouh Habib...?

One 'alternative' suggested is for growers to be licenced in the way that keepers of native animals are registered, and such folk are intimately familiar with the enormous burden of paperwork and of the cost, for the privilege... Wildlife keepers know all about the documenting of numbers in possession, of breeding (= propagation), and of recording buyers' details.

And what purpose would licencing serve? Anyone who was eligible for licencing would likely not be of criminal intent anyway (the brug/loph/trich trade in Australia is as far from illicit trafficking as anything can be, including the trafficking in native wildlife), and real drug traffickers wouldn't give a rat's arse about licences anyway. It'd just be a burden on innocent people, and a non-issue for criminals.

Unless the government wanted to turn otherwise innocent people into criminals...

Which brings me back to the fundamental point - exactly where in Australia is the rampant criminal/terrorist trade in mescaline, DMT, and tropanes?

Heck, where are the morbidity/mortality figures for the consequences of the use of these substances? And how do they compare to the use of our socially-sanctioned recreational drugs, and to our pharmaceuticals?

Where is the cost/benefit analysis of this proposed scheduling?

Edited by WoodDragon
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If they only want to target the laws at certain groups of people then they need to write this into the laws. In a democracy a citizen has the right to know whether a law applies to him or not and can only consent to such a law if he can be sure of that. The word of a public servant counts for nothing in that respect. Hell, even the word of the minister counts for nothing these days. The only way to make sure we have fair laws is to make sure the laws are written fairly.

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"We recognise that some ingredients used for manufacturing illegal drugs are contained in commonly occurring plants. However, claims that backyard plants will be banned or their growers prosecuted is inaccurate. The Commonwealth’s drug laws target people who are involved in the illicit drug trade. This will continue to be the case."

The key focus of the discussion paper throughout, and the target of the proposed changes is to prevent the flow of funds to organised crime, via the supply of illegal drugs, not to target legitimate use of these plants.

Is this or is this not evidence that GetUp have their own agenda? I mean, what; she believes the guy? She believes that this supposed drug cartel actually exists? And that even though the proposal looks threatening, it wouldn't really change anything if it became law? QUESTION MARK. :P

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Kate needs a new job....I can't believe she wrote that.....they obviously see nothing wrong....maybe we need to run a campaign about them...

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From the getup website. I have emboldened some of it.

GetUp is an independent, grass-roots community advocacy organisation giving everyday Australians opportunities to get involved and hold politicians accountable on important issues.

Whether it is sending an email to a member of parliament, engaging with the media, attending an event or helping to get a television ad on the air, GetUp members take targeted, coordinated and strategic action.

GetUp does not back any particular party, but aims to build an accountable and progressive Parliament - a Parliament with economic fairness, social justice and environment at its core.

GetUp is a not-for-profit and receives no money from any political party or the government. We rely solely on funds and in-kind donations from the Australian public.

 

How can politicians be held accountable if their word is taken at face value? When has a politician ever admitted that a proposal is unfair and unwarranted? Kate, haven't you heard? Asylum seekers throw their children in the water. Maybe getup should stop campaigning for a compassionate policy on asylum seekers.

Although it would be a blow nonetheless, it would be a respectable response if Kate or another getup representative simply stated that they do not have the resources to investigate this or to take any action, or that they have higher priorities. It would be justifiable to claim that other causes are more deserving of their attention. There is a lot of bad stuff happening and this is just one of many issues, regardless of how passionate we as a community are about this. However, the response given by Kate is eerily reminiscent of the backspeak we hear from politicians all the time. It's dismissive and fails to adequately address the concerns raised by those opposed to the proposal.

I have not seen a shred of evidence that any of these plants provide funds to organised crime. I have not seen any in my own research, nor has any been shown to me by any government official or Kate herself, who seems to think that this is a reasonable action to take to achieve the aim. Of the plants that are currently legal, Ephedra is the only one that I could see having any potential whatsoever as a source of income for organised crime, yet I have seen no evidence (and more importantly, no evidence has been provided) to suggest that domestic cultivation of Ephedra species is in any way connected to the production of amphetamines.

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The arguments against the proposed scheduling of a bunch more plants that are contained in this thread I don't think I can really add to... my opinion of it allies closely with the thinking that this is just a way of 'vaguifing' what is morally okay in the eyes of those that represent and maintain the status quo.

I guess my question there or here, (whatever) is why? What the fuck is going to ban all these plants and new compounds going to do in the long term? Perhaps provide rationale for a few police operations looking into peoples criminal, (or otherwise) activities.... but still... why? Who has the time to really care what anyone else is doing anyway? I suppose I am looking for the fundamental reason for such a proposal - a question I have asked my self about a range of things in our current society anyway - is it just the pursuit of total power of the populous.. if so, so what? So a select few then control the masses, what do they really gain from it? Am I missing some part of my brain that sees that such a preoccupation would be fun or worthwhile? Maybe am I.

I think that politically arguing the point against the new proposal is really not that hard, keep the consciousness raising activities steered well away from any drug discussion and focus on our right to cultivate land/ground in whatever form we see fit. Perhaps expanding current legislation against the molecules in question or something... you know, whatever man... i guess in part to me it just seems like something to keep a bunch of people gainfully employed within the system and fighting the supposed 'good' fight against the baddies... but can such educated people that represent us at the highest level, (who are encouraged to practice yoga during their lunch breaks....) really be so blind to 50 odd years of research into prohibition of substances?

I really am struggling to comprehend the raw humaness behind forms of control like this... ? Is it fear and an inability to face the unknown taken to the extreme?

There are better things to be focusing time and attention on, well I think there are... perhaps I have just drifted to far from the hive/ant/insect collective to understand things like this that move further than,

'we think you can't do this'

'well reckon we should be able to because of xyz'

'well we don't because of abc'

'well maybe you can have yz but we are taking a'

'mmmkay'

'mmmmkay'

seriously... wtf is at the root of it as a species?

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It's good that GetUp has finally replied, but the answer is still a disappointing cop out. It seems to me that if they are being honest, then they are completely lacking skills in lateral thinking and extrapolating the outcome of such law changes. To take these proposed changes and the response from the AT on face value is ridiculous.

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Apon entering the Royal Botanical Gardens yesterday, i put up seven A4 posters around the place. Six hours later on my way out, all but two had been removed. One that didn't get removed was in the Female toilets, and the other was where we were hanging out (Melbourne plant meet). I had laminated up to the tear off strips so when it rained the message wasn't completely lost . So i had gone to a bit of trouble and was annoyed that they were gone. I don't see what the problem was. Maybe i should have got permission first.

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I understand the "Apparent" urgency in all this, and hat's off to those who have put in so much work....unfortunately I still think this has blown way out of proportion like I said earlier in this thread.

The whole idea behind this was to cause panic and knee-jerk reactions and that it has...350 something posts instead of planting 350 plants!???

Not much if anything will change, except I can gaurantee that places like HHH,Wandjina etc are well and truly going to be the first to be audited and we have given them waaay too much info,probably stuff they didn't know about and in turn has made us look like underground trippers defending themselves from an as yet,un-enforceable PROPOSAL, not a law as far as owning and collecting the new plants listed....the old stuff we knew about and their are already regulations in place.

Fear feeds fear and causes panic,this is well documented and utilised for the wrong reasons,to gain the upper-hand.

I've also noticed after going through all the posts again how much even T's perception was warped through this panic and is now changed,please re-read to confirm this if you want.

Now MORE people know there is mesc in cactus,you can bet ya bottom dollar we will have a fight on our hands,plus I, for one, am concerned that gardens including my large quantity of Pedro's will be raided.Not by the police..but by dumb-asses.Then as I said before it will be blown out of proportion and power will be handed over to the police without real plant laws instate.

I fear I will be seen as a criminal,and the other cacti collectors here in this small town as well,even losing 30-40-50 year old plants.

I also have noted that some things I have put on the table, are being extrapolated and added into others' posts,when my original posts received NO comments,yet now it's a good idea? Or new?

Somebody anybody respond ,please shoot me down....at least then I'll know my posts aren't just on my computer.

What I am saying is no more ridiculous than the proposal itself.....so how is the fight going?

No-where.Wait.See.Act.

In the meantime get back in the garden guys and do the non-compliancy dance under a Wattle Tree :)

EDIT:@Tripsis as quoted"It's good that GetUp has finally replied, but the answer is still a disappointing cop out. It seems to me that if they are being honest, then they are completely lacking skills in lateral thinking and extrapolating the outcome of such law changes. To take these proposed changes and the response from the AT on face value is ridiculous"

It's not on their agenda....there is no interest from them.

i.e. a waste of time.

And I didn't see meanies post onward as I typed this up.

Edited by mescalito
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word to that mesc'

Instead of doing the dance under the wattle tree out front here I might just hop in the car and go to some local bora rings and learn and sing some wattle songs into the land completely surrounded by them for a 300km radius?

once upon a time someone told me a story: There was a gathering of people by a river, having a fire and eating some great lunch they had caught. To the horror of the group a small child floated past, gasped for air and slowly slipped into the tea coloured water. A member of the group dived in to save the child which she did. To the increasing panic of the group two more children, both unable to swim floated past sinking beneath the surface of the river and were both retrieved and revived by the group.

By now, with three children needing such close attention to save them from dying there was only 4 more adults left in the group watching as 4 more children, all unable to swim, passed by. Three of the adults jumped in to save the kids. The remaining adult exclaimed, 'fuck this! Where the hell are they all falling in, I'm going up stream, we are never going to be able to save them all otherwise!'.

Do we fight the spot fires or do we look upstream?

One time it seemed like half of Australia turned out to say no to sending troops to Afghanistan... I'm pretty sure we were all there... and in the end, they did it anyway. Face offs don't work. Been there done that.

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hi res flyer looked great by the way, on A4 and A3. windows picture viewer cropped a bit of the top and bottom for A3, but it'll do.

amazonian i'm really not surprised that stuff you left in a garden was removed by people who are paid to... keep the gardens tidy. don't let it get you down. if you are really keen on having them spread all around the bot. gardens it's not too late to ask.

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There was a gathering of people by a river, having a fire and eating some great lunch they had caught. To the horror of the group a small child floated past, gasped for air and slowly slipped into the tea coloured water. A member of the group dived in to save the child which she did. To the increasing panic of the group two more children, both unable to swim floated past sinking beneath the surface of the river and were both retrieved and revived by the group.

By now, with three children needing such close attention to save them from dying there was only 4 more adults left in the group watching as 4 more children, all unable to swim, passed by. Three of the adults jumped in to save the kids. The remaining adult exclaimed, 'fuck this! Where the hell are they all falling in, I'm going up stream, we are never going to be able to save them all otherwise!'.

Do we fight the spot fires or do we look upstream?

 

Good idea for the guy to find out where the kids are falling in, but the rest should stay there and try to save the ones that have already fallen. If there's a bushfire, it's great that there are people out there fighting the major blaze, but you'll probably want to put out the spot fire in your own backyard too.

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Mesc, the point of all of us getting worked up about this and trying to facilitate action in others, is so we can try to direct the outcome of this proposal to one that is desirable, i.e. the proposal being dropped. While waiting to see what happens is inevitable, if we can garner enough support to make it clear that a significant percentage of the Australian population is opposed to these proposed changes, then perhaps the government will not go ahead with it. Yes, it is only a proposal at the moment, but it happens to be a highly dangerous proposal and if it were to pass, our liberties and rights are on the chopping board. There is no harm is trying to stop this proposal in its tracks. There is harm in sitting by and idly watching our rights to grow these plants get taken away from us, or see ourselves become criminals in the eyes of the law. Perhaps more people now know that some cacti contain mescaline and some Acacia species contain DMT, but that was inevitable. It was the government, not us, who has opened that can of worms to the greater public. We have undoubtedly help spread the message, but it was out of necessity. That information already existed to anyone who had the slightest bit of interest anyway.

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amazonian i'm really not surprised that stuff you left in a garden was removed by people who are paid to... keep the gardens tidy. don't let it get you down. if you are really keen on having them spread all around the bot. gardens it's not too late to ask.

 

I have pretty much exhausted my recourses.resources. My printer is out of ink and i need more paper. The other option , i suppose, would be to go to Office Works and get some photocopies done. I am a little disheartened at the moment. Ah, tomorrows another day , we'll see what happens.

Edit: Bloody spell checker.

Edited by Amazonian

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so in Australias history has there ever been a law that they decided not to pass because quite a few didnt like the idea? just curious

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I have pretty much exhausted my recourses. My printer is out of ink and i need more paper. The other option , i suppose, would be to go to Office Works and get some photocopies done. I am a little disheartened at the moment. Ah, tomorrows another day , we'll see what happens.

 

and if the staff there aren't agreeable you could always vandalise nearby power poles and stuff with your flyers, you know in the car park or whatever. power pole maintenance is pretty weak compared to botanical garden maintenance.

ah well top effort so far anyway :worship:

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^I knew the chances were high of my post being quoted after i realized i made an error with my wording.Don't you hate that. :blush:

Just trying to think of somewhere different to put up the poster (if i end up making more). I don't fancy a trip back into the city for a little while. Something will come to me.

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yep i'm currently wondering what to do with the number that i printed off, i think i will end up taping the extras onto bus stops, some parks have notice boards, power poles on busy footpaths. they won't last very long but there isn't much time left for submissions anyway.

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blowng. the internet filter is a good and recent example of what people power can do. not that it will stop a filter compeltely, but the next pollie who decides to risk his job for attempting to censor the internet will be a lot more careful and a lot less broad in his approach.

mescalito, I think you haven't quite got the message. This isn't just another law we can ignore. So far most plantheads didn't have to worry about the laws because in most states you can't get busted for having the plants in the ground. However in two states this has changed. Why? Because two states have adopted the 'model schedules', ie the very schedules we are fighting against in the proposal. SA has fully implemented the schedules, but did not implement the offences, which means that now people in SA are being prosecuted for having things like Trichs in their gardens - something unthinkable just 5 years ago. Ditto in queensland where a large scale Trich grower got busted and the cops didn't even bother trying to nail him for manufacture of mescaline cos they could just nail him for the possession of Trichs.

if the proposal goes ahead then in a few years all states will have adopted the schedules and Trichs will be as difficult to find as salvia. Which might not mean much to you and me, but it means a whole heap to the new generation of plant heads. Just check how desperate many noobs have been searching for salvia for example. And that's only 8 years after the plant got scheduled. if you live in the bush and can't get to any of the meetings then you've got no chance of sourcing these plants. In 5 or 10 years it will be just as hard to get Trichs as it is to get coca or kratom or salvia.

Your view is extremely short sighted. And the government knows that most people are similarly short sighted, which is why they didn't expect much of an opposition to this. I betcha when your neighbour dobs you in for growing san pedro in 10 years time you will regret your apathy to this.

With the powerful allies this fight now has I am certain that we can improve the outcome dramatically. It is obvious that we won't be able to get rid of this completely because too many agencies at too many levels want these laws, but I hope that the 'fear and panic' has mobilised enough people to let the government know they won't be passing this through partliament in its current form. If the only thing we achieve is to remove the ambiguity of the law and thus force the government to schedule by species rather than genus or group, then that is in my eyes already a HUGE victory for future plant heads. but I think it will go much further than that. I think the fight for some of our most controversial species will be an interesting one and I wouldn't be surprised if Echinopsis/Trichs will NOT end up on the list . Even if these are the only outcomes of this fight then it would have been worth it in my opinion. Probably not for us, but for future generations of plantheads.

Conversely I think not fighting this fight is selfish as it relinquishes the responsibilities we have to those that follow in our footsteps. I NEVER want to say to young plant enthusiasts again that 'sorry, but we didn't bother writing any submissions which is why this plant is now illegal' which is something we have to do in our nursery on a depressingly very regular basis. I want to have no regrets about this one. If we fail then I know I did all I could. If we win then i know I was part of it. Either way I can live with it.

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Mesc, the point of all of us getting worked up about this and trying to facilitate action in others, is so we can try to direct the outcome of this proposal to one that is desirable, i.e. the proposal being dropped. While waiting to see what happens is inevitable, if we can garner enough support to make it clear that a significant percentage of the Australian population is opposed to these proposed changes, then perhaps the government will not go ahead with it. Yes, it is only a proposal at the moment, but it happens to be a highly dangerous proposal and if it were to pass, our liberties and rights are on the chopping board. There is no harm is trying to stop this proposal in its tracks. There is harm in sitting by and idly watching our rights to grow these plants get taken away from us, or see ourselves become criminals in the eyes of the law. Perhaps more people now know that some cacti contain mescaline and some Acacia species contain DMT, but that was inevitable.. We have undoubtedly help spread the message, but it was out of necessity. That information already existed to anyone who had the slightest bit of interest anyway.

 

I have heaps to say but I may add that later....basically you actually believe that votes count?

I agree there's no harm in trying,but do you think they really do count them and consider us?

Being the cynic and lateral thinker I am this just doesn't sit right....their are probably better ways to adress this like rallying on the lawn of Parliament House.THAT will hit the television if that's what is needed...then again there was the whole Aboriginal Tent Embassy Fiasco.Does anyone think about them anymore?

I do 'cause it's THEIR TREES and CACTI.

It was the government, not us, who has opened that can of worms to the greater public

Nobody knew of this proposal!,and nothing has been on the local teev,nor the paper,nor anyone I have spoken to since it came out,so I opened the can here.

If it were to pass under the carpet,we would be the first to know and then bring it up to boiling point, as that would not be a democratic decision concerning many many Australians from ALL walks of life.It would be an Impingement on religious rights amongst other right we do have that do draw attention and are scruitinised.

As we've said most is not enforceable/workable or already in place.

GetUp's didn't really do shit if votes count and if you think that who you voted for...actually we didn't vote for her,did we? :scratchhead:

We are in the cusp of Globalisation and we do need to look up-stream and ACT.Do you really believe that they read all the submissions if any?.....Like really?

Look at America,apparently a democracy too right? and we're right up their arse.

ACTION and EDUCATION are more important.Not selling (sorry Ray) R.C. Chems and illegal plants/consumables from a franchise shop that to the eye says "Hey can't get fucked up? Worried about the legal system?,Then come on in,we'll sort you out"

This glorification started long ago and is part of the up-stream problem.If people want to know about these plants and the traditional uses,then that's what the "Internets" is for.

so in Australia's history has there ever been a law that they decided not to pass because quite a few didn't like the idea? just curious

 

HeHe well first there was the invasion of the real owners of this continent.Yep just came on in and killed the fuckers,raped them and gave some booze and pissed them off out of "our "way.Then failed Alcohol Prohibition(which by the way only turned around and was abolished as it was too hard to stop.People didn't write carefully edited submissions in the hope that some-one wouldn't wipe their arse on it before trying to read it.....they ACTED when it happened)

Australia has become fast-food,TV consumer mother fuckers that don't care unless it lands in their backyard...not what we were known for not so long ago.We have become complacent and trusting,yet make a noise when the air-con doesn't work...hell people were/are still arguing about saying bloody sorry!

On the flip-side the Chinese got really fucked over by the "White Australia Policy" big time.We're also not the only country stacked with xenophobes still.

Paper's good for sending letters and growing Oysters off, but then again one strain has in fact been found to contain DMT....come to think of it it's also used to grow psilocybes.

Interesting point too is I guess most cops are probably carrying a trafficable amount of illicit drugs in their wallets everyday whilst they swab test you,just because they have a bunch of notes in there, that if tested, might land them in the shit.Why can we not ask them to swab themselves?Why are they not tested?Can we enforce this?...I think not.

I just don't have the trust I hope we could have had by now in the land of the "Free".

That and listening to Henry Rollins' tour in 2007 in Melbs..:wink:

Anyhow keep it up!

Personally through circumstances beyond my control I can't do any paper chasing or printing,but I do what I do and those I speak to I know are on our side and will be all the way.

This is just the way I feel about it after doing lots of thinking.

Please don't let me dissuade your efforts guys,it's just my viewpoint at the current moment.

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basically you actually believe that votes count?

I know this wasn't directed at me, but I'll comment anyway. Votes count if the member fear for his seat. and that's pretty much the only time votes count. that's why decisions are made on the basis of marginal seats and 'balance of power seats'.

media attention is great way to get heard. not because they want to for the greater good, but because they get worried about their own selfish objectives [eg parliament pension].

I agree there's no harm in trying,but do you think they really do count them and consider us?

I can assure you that every submission is read. However whether the message of the submission makes it into the summary depends on many factors, including the narrow midned filter of the public servant making that decision. however, that's not what the submissions are all about. The submissions are also a record of objections and alternatives that will be there forever - including when a matter like this goes to the high court on a constitutional matter. That's when the detail of the submission really becomes important.

The other important aspect of good submissions is when it goes to parliamentary debate. Opposition likes to whine about publc service waste so this is a perfect example for them to throw around. But it needs to be pointed out to them.

their are probably better ways to adress this like rallying on the lawn of Parliament House.THAT will hit the television if that's what is needed...

What do 90% of australian think when they see such a rally. "Fucking Hippies/commies/unions etc at it again". Such action is actually counterproductive in politics these days unless it is on a massive scale. Trust me, this issue will never be on a scale big enough for that to work.

GetUp's didn't really do shit if votes count

getUP served it's purpose. It galvanised people and spread the message long before media and other interest groups picked it up.

Do you really believe that they read all the submissions if any?.....Like really?

I know they do. My nephew works in such a department. the problem is that even though the public servants have to read it, the minister never does. he just gets a bite sized summary. The trick is to make your points in a way that they make it into the summary.

If people want to know about these plants and the traditional uses,then that's what the "Internets" is for.

hmm, I wouldn't rely on the internet in the future for free and open information as long as conroy is around.

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Just read your reply T and before I hit the hay,I'm not being selfish as I have a lot to lose,an 8 month old to take over,so I'm not short-sighted...having a rough time atm and it hurts to know my baby is missing her Dad a LOT and vice-versa but that's the price I have to pay to get clean from Benzodiazepines....It hurts beyond your wildest nightmare.

In response, over yonder in the US it was M.J.Once, just a plant,legal to grow Hemp with a covert use,then it wasn't then it was with a catch,NOW it IS allowed in some states and B.C.,so the plant didn't become extinct like some Apocalyptic type shit.It's just going through the phases of acceptance and hopefully that will continue to spread before too many die from malnutrition from diverting moneys for fake wars on drugs and countries.

Our Government is selfish and short-sighted.....nah just hand puppets.

Just know,it's not over yet.

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