reptyle Posted March 21, 2005 i agree that credit should be given where credit is due and it seems unfair that one would lose their profits on account of others using information that you have discovered. im sure there are others doing there own research as well though. if you want your market share back why dont you invest a little bit of time into promoting your product. i know it would draw from the time to do research but it would also get you that funding you need. where do you sell your products? is there a web store? thanks for sharing by the way. even if you have said it before. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
friendly Posted March 23, 2005 Sounds like PH may have had a bit of Serotonin syndrome--just a very small bit. PH: Do you take any SSRI's or Serotonin enhancers (tryptophan, Griffonia simplicifolia, etc) and had you done so that day? Some people cpmpare the effects of Sceletium and alcohol combined to E, but I do not make that comparison. Somewhere on this site (or do a google) there is a paper I wrote under the nom de plume Groot von de Gross entitled 'Empathogenic Effects of Sceletium tortuosum' which was published in 1998. It has useful information regarding native preparation methods, effects and user comments. To successfully insufflate the powder it needs to be ground to a talcum-like consistency by using an electric coffe grinder. Put a gram or less into the grinder and whir it around for about a minute. Take the finest powder, that which sticks to the inside lid of the grinder and gather it onto a plate. Make a fine line about an inch long, one for each nostril, and inufflate. You are working with a vegetable subatance here, not a soluable chemical compound. If you want good absorption, the powder must be as finely ground as possible. It only take 25-40 mg insufflated for the effects, so there is no need to inhale a lot, which would clog your nose as it stays unabsorbed and swells up as it re-moisturizes. Using 50 mg orally twice a day seems to have no drastic overt effects, but improves one's mood and removes anxiety. It is patented as amood-elevating anti-anxiety medicinal substance (the mesembrine it contains, that is)in South Africa. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mescalito Posted March 23, 2005 You mean your snot's not meant to look like porridge?? Thanks friendly for that concise prep method I'm trying it out tomorrow, just gotta remember to wipe all the chilli powder out of the grinder first Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
friendly Posted March 23, 2005 Yes, be certain to do that. Insufflating cayenne pepper powder will cause massive lung and nasal mucous discharge, copious watering of the eyes and a very unpleasant feeling in both the throat and sinuses as well as possibly vomiting and an inability to breathe properly. It can be threatening to one's health. Persons not in robust health should not even consider insufflating cayenne pepper powder, a practice once recommended by some Hindu yogis to cleanse the sinuses and lungs of mucous. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
apothecary Posted March 23, 2005 Those silly yogis...they never learn. While we're on the subject of insufflating stupid powders, my friends routinely would dare each other to snort either milo or sugar, for the sheer idiocy of it. They never convinced me to do it, but at schoolies, well...there were a lot of yelps of pain and nose clutching [ 23. March 2005, 11:51: Message edited by: apothecary ] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pisgah Posted March 23, 2005 Sceletium is one of those products that has always confounded me. I started using it in small amount, kind of like friendly describes, and felt the mild elevation in mood that seems to be the desirable effect. As soon as I started to combine it with beer and my friend mary, bam! Hardcore anxiety and blood pressure issues. It's wierd, but as I get older, the substances I get most nervous about are some of these peripheral ethnobotanicals. I think there is an urge to push it with herbs that aren't very "active" in order to mimic the effects of other drugs, when the actual effects can be highly detrimental in overdose scenarios with people who have conditions like hypertension and potential arythmia. Its good to explore, but I'm learning that finding the boundaries can be as important as the territory on the other side. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
apothecary Posted March 23, 2005 I'm with you friendly. Few posts up you'll see I tried it in a cigarette. Felt exactly like after you pull a cone, you know, "it's almost there but not quite" and I was quite happy with it, then my friend suggested we try more to see if we could push that "instant hit" I described in that post, and half an hour later I felt like throwing up. Mesembrine is obviously a cool chemical, but it has its limits. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
planthelper Posted March 23, 2005 Mesembrine is obviously a cool chemical, but it has its limits. [/QB] hmm, can't agree, you got no idea what substance mesem is, sure it got it's limits, but.... it's a ssri and a powerfull fast acting ssri indeed, and is contraindicated with some other substances. btw, @friendly, no i don't use any griffonia or http..., but that day i was specialy hyped up, and scely must have opend the flood gates... [ 23. March 2005, 13:42: Message edited by: planthelper ] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smogs Posted March 23, 2005 snorting chilli doesnt sound like fun... when preparing fragrant chicken... which is basically a shitload of chilli powder dry fryed on a hit plate while at the same time reducing white wine vinegar by 50% in a small unit sometimes i think im being raided! its funny because it seems to go from a pleasant aroma to oh shit i cant breath anywhere in the house within a few seconds heh heh lots of coughing worth it tho tastes great Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mescalito Posted March 24, 2005 Hehe I'm one of those unfortunate peeps that manages to do stupid things when they're already stressed out. A few weeks ago I woke up totally pissed off because my left sinus cavity was still infected and completely blocked (last years punch in the nose crushed the cavity) so in my usual morning shit-fest I thought bugger it one pinch should clear it up! Fuck me dead I regretted doing this straight away! My face burned, my nose burned, I was doing a rain-dance in the kitchen, I could hardly see and there was little pieces of chilli powder in my left eyelid which I intelligently picked out with the SAME hand I used to pick up the bloody chilli powder just to make things worse...it was excrutiating pain to say the least. Cleared my nose though LOL Also last year I somehow ended up with chilli seeds in my RYO cigarette I mean I can eat chillis that no-one else would even be game enough to hold but that was the first time I thought I wasn't actually going to breathe again!! Shits all over a panic-attack that's for sure Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
friendly Posted March 24, 2005 A few years back I introduced one of the editors of ER to insufflated Sceletium after he had consumed a few beers. It was his idea, not mine; I suggested he try it with a clear head so as not to confuse the effects of one with the other, but he insisted. A few minutes into it he exclaimed "This is exactly like the rush from E". I have heard this time and again from those combining Seeletium with alcohol, but being a tea totaler never experienced this myself. I remember (there he goes again) back in the 60's when every new psychedelic--or purported psychedelic--was described as being "just like acid" and it never was. There may have been similarities, but it was never "just like acid". These days, many new things get compared to E and they aren't the same, either. They have some similarities, yes, but the same? No. Not by a long shot. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tryptameanie Posted March 24, 2005 Has anyone tried acid/base extraction on this plant? Mesembrine HCl (yeah OK, "sceletium alkaloid HCl salts" ) ought to be a hell of alot easier on the sinuses, and the A/B should remove the oxalic acid... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
apothecary Posted March 24, 2005 I just read a extraction tech the other day while browsing the EBA forums... Water and NaOH I believe. "Instant euphoria" after a hotknife. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
planthelper Posted March 24, 2005 Tryptameanie: Has anyone tried acid/base extraction on this plant? Mesembrine HCl (yeah OK, "sceletium alkaloid HCl salts" ) ought to be a hell of alot easier on the sinuses, and the A/B should remove the oxalic acid... a/b exctracting sceletium is easy, but i found only chloroform satisfactory as a puller, so its an expensive extraction.problem is the salt and the base, both of them are a liquid oil, which you can't snuff. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
friendly Posted March 26, 2005 In 1998 when the first cultivated Sceletium was made available, there were only 16kg for the entire year. I got 7 and a Japanese consortium bought the other 9. They proceeded to extract and purify the mesembrine, which they then deposited onto PAPER BLOTTERS in 1 mg doses. They then approached me about marketing them in the USA at--get this--$8.00 each per hundred (my cost!!!) Talk about stupid, using a carrier that is universally recognized as for something else which is highly illegal. Imagine having a law enforcement officer finding one or many of these in your possession and trying to convince him it's not L but mesembrine. Fat Chance; you're going to jail and it's going to cost you big bucks to get a lawyer and prove you are innocent. Needless to say, I declined their 'generous' offer. An insufflated dose of Sceletium (50mg)costs 50 cents, if not much less--depending on where you get it. Why would anyone pay $8.00 and up for the same effect? And deposited onto the worst possible of carriers, at that. I have made a very effective Sceletium tortuosum 5x paste extract by refluxing with Etoh and H20 and recovering the solvents. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
apothecary Posted March 26, 2005 Quote from the thread I found on EBA mentioned above: " I had very pleasant surprise yesterday afternoon with a Sceletium alkaloid extract. Freebase Sceletium sp. alkaloid extract by hotknife. I took in a bit of the pleasant tasting vapour and WOOOOOSH. Euphoria! This is probably the first time I've had effects from this genus that are not attributable to CO, oxalates, snuff trauma (adrenaline) placebo etc. I just did a simple acid base using two handfuls of chopped up Sceletium branches boiled in ~500mL distilled H2O for ~1hr, filtered, basified with a small teaspoon of NaOH (didn't bother to check pH but a precipitate formed) and extracted with 5 x 100mL DCM. Combined extracts reduced to a yellow residue, scraped onto a knife, vaporised with jet lighter and inhaled via 1.25 L softdrink bottle funnel. 2 ppl were well dosed with this miniscule amnt of alkaloid although i could have sucked on this stuff all night long The stuff that wasn't scraped onto the knife was dissolved in a minimal amnt of acetone, dropped onto a blotter paper, dried and the paper shared between two ppl through a water pipe. Both positive results. The actives of Sceletium appear to be extremely potent (possibly close to the same order of magnitude as salvinorin). Sceletium blotters anyone? " Link to extended version of thread: http://www.ethnobotany-australia.net/commu...ium+lye+blotter Very interesting read, anyone who grows Sceletium spp. or is just interested should have a look at the above thread. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
planthelper Posted March 26, 2005 they call it kanna aswell... koegoed (wau its a two result search, a google whacker,lol), kougoed http://216.239.63.104/search?q=cache:p-TR8...f+koegoed&hl=en [ 26. March 2005, 11:16: Message edited by: planthelper ] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
friendly Posted March 27, 2005 I digress: Never, never, snort sugar. It provides a great nutrient medium for growing nasty things in your sinuses and/or lungs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smogs Posted March 27, 2005 i laughed really hard at someone who snorted sherbert oh man my side hurt from that Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mescalito Posted March 29, 2005 Yeah Daryl's mullet would be a bit rough on the shnozz :D Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amulte Posted March 29, 2005 lol, back in high school we would dare each other to do huge sherbert lines. fuckin ow! but yeah its good for a laugh. it starts to burn and then you start to laugh cuz you cant believe that you jus did that and how much it hurts! :D Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
reptyle Posted March 29, 2005 could sherbert be a gateway drug ya reckon? ha once saw someone snort a huge line of namee noodle flavouring. fuckin idiot. didnt even wince. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smogs Posted March 30, 2005 what about even the kiwi way to drink tequilla... snorth the salt... drink the tequilla.... then squeeze the lemon into your eye Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
macro Posted April 12, 2005 I had about 50mg of Herbalistic's (thanks!) Sceletium Emarcidum the other night, insufflated. (It smells nicer than Tortuosum!) After about 15 minutes, there was a definite elevation of mood, and with only light activity I actually started to sweat, but this I largely attribute to the humidty at the time. Whether it was worth the discomfort and the crust plant boogers is debatable. I had a beer, and about 1.5 hours and another beer later, I ingested another 350mg of powder, with vodka and soft drink. Definite effects noted here, a very mellow 'up' feeling and quite chatty. An interesting plant which deserves further research for sure. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ergoamide Posted May 3, 2005 every time i have tried sceletium i have been disapointed in it. the 1st time i tried it i had herbalistics buzz powder i had 2 good sized lines which did nothin but burn my nose the next time i tried it i had a half a gram of tortuosum powder ingestedand still nuthin. am i havin enough or do i need to have more than i am. and looking into the extracting where would i find chloroform or dcm Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
