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solomon

Your experiences with BAP

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Tried out some BAP today. This post is mostly to remind myself to post an update sometime in the future

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Edited by eatfoo
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I baped a big PC pach a few weeks ago and it is just now starting to pup . I did it pretty high up the cactus so it has the "branching" look instead of growing pups from the base .

I shall call it a San guaro.

I will post pics eventually if it is a success

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did you get variegated pups?

Sorry, I must have missed your question Moses.

BAP has given me variegated pups of peruvianus & tbms, I havent BAP'd a variegated pedro yet

mama variegated peruvianus on the right

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one of two pups

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another one that got grafted

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various variegated tbms in no particular order

(i started with one un rooted pickle the size of my thumb, which I first rooted then BAP'd)

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one of two grafted offsets

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second grafted plant, this one is planted in the garden now

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These next two plants initially started off as pups from the main mama variegated tbm that were insufficiently variegated to suit me. They were removed & then rooted.

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then allowed to grow....

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aerole BAP'd

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I guess my results of BAPing and increasing propagation rates are still inconclusive.....ymmv

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Thanks for the eyecandy Zelly,

i love it when you post pics :wub:

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So it comes in various gram lots, the more you buy the cheaper it gets............

How many pups would 1 gram give me?

I assume it last forever in a cool dark place?

Edited by Dreamwalker

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a gram would be a whole lot, I have a tiny little tin of the stuff mixed in lanolin and use the smallest amount possible when using it. I find that using too much is detrimental and slows plants down

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a gram would be a whole lot, I have a tiny little tin of the stuff mixed in lanolin and use the smallest amount possible when using it. I find that using too much is detrimental and slows plants down

thanks would you or anyone know why lanolin is used? other than making it sticky.....seems to be a lot contradictory info about, some say butter is fine, or marg.

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Lanolin is only used to make the bap stick to the areoles. I guess butter or any other sticky like substance could be used in place of lanolin.

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I was wondering whether something like Lucas' pawpaw ointment, (its sort of like vaseline but it's fermented carica papaya not petroleum based), could be used for BAP application? I also had thoughts about using it around graft contact areas to lessen moisture loss when the graft is freshly done. Since it's fruit based I thought it might do a decent job....

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I have only used lanolin so I really can not comment on other bases. But I would test any substance on a spare cactus first to make sure it will not damage the skin or cause any rot issues.

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farken nice pics zelly! Im unclear though... did the bap create the variegation, or did the bap just allow better propagation of an already variegated plant?

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the BAP did not create the variegation, it just forces variegated areoles where it's applied to grow a pup. applied to an all green areole will produce an all green pup

i think the thing with lanolin is it has a much better 'staying' power than some of the others mentioned. depending on many factors, the process can take up top a year for force a pup, and you really only want to apply it to 1-2 areoles at a time.

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has anyone noticed deformities with bap? i haven't successfully use it before but a friend rubbed some onto some trichs and all the pups grew monstrose, only got a cm or 2 big then stopped growing... I'm wondering if cutting the deformed pups off and grafting them would keep them monstrose or probably just revert or throw a normal pup I'm guessing.. might get some bap out today and have a go at it...

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has anyone noticed deformities with bap?

yes

Does bap go off?

In the powder form it should last indefinitely if stored in a dry, moderate temperature location

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has anyone noticed deformities with bap? i haven't successfully use it before but a friend rubbed some onto some trichs and all the pups grew monstrose, only got a cm or 2 big then stopped growing... I'm wondering if cutting the deformed pups off and grafting them would keep them monstrose or probably just revert or throw a normal pup I'm guessing.. might get some bap out today and have a go at it...

did he BAP multiple aeroles on the one plant causing it to stall?

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no, just 1 or 2, the main plant is still growing but the pups eventually just stalled... some pretty freaky looking ones, which is why i want to graft them. ill try get some photos next time I'm there.

Edited by mystical oyster

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I tried BAP a while ago and I got zero results except for one pup that started emerging but completely stalled. It's still there. But since you guys say it works I am trying with a bit more BAP mixed in .

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Tried BAP recently (approx 10 weeks ago, maybe more ,I'd have to check) in a 1% w/w mixture and hit a few columns:

 

Scop x Super Pedro = success, pup grew normal

Pachanoi #1 = partial success, turned out wax-like, grew to an inch or so long, terminated and then starting growing a normal pup from the top most areole

Pachanoi #2 = partial success, pretty much as above

Bridgesii = failure, both areoles

 

While chatting to another SAB member, I did some googling regarding its use on Lophophora and a certain site has a few posts with one stating 10% w/w mix. This seems incredibly over the top, does it not?

 

There are a few posts of people "spraying" it but no mention of what they mix it with. Any recommendations?

 

Edit: what can be used besides lanolin? I know someone using rice bran oil in a 50:50 mix. Also seems extreme but he's having good results. What about butter/margarine?

Edited by Gimli
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I have just made some 2% BAP gel/cream by using vaseline. From what I read, all fats including the butter suggested (and I don't see why not the lanolin) can block stomata and transpiration, which can cause a shift in the water relations in the plant but is not by definition detrimental. Besides, I only plan to apply a very small area anyway, right next to or on an areole most likely.

 

I can only conclude that it is supposed to be an extended release drug patch kind of situation that is meant to last for weeks or months. Therefore a spray does not seem practical because the point would be to subtly but effectively change the local hormonal concentrations that would promote pupping.

It also seems to me like you cannot fairly compare typical 6-BAP concentrations for foliar sprays with such an extended duration formula.

 

I was considering making some kind of emulsion, to help not only get the hormones through the waxy cuticle / fatty tissue layers, but also efficiently into the aqueous tissues. I did add a drop of tween 80 for this reason and a drop of water, but I don't think like a 50/50 mix here of water/fat would be appropriate. Not only because it would become runny, but also because it would probably absorb too well and too fast, effectively overdosing the plant.

 

I would like to test with and without the surfactant.

 

Another thing I was thinking about is whether adding a bit of GA3 could also help here, to also promote the transition to shoot production?

 

And finally, I heard about someone being enthousiastic about a combination of silver and olivetol, which is something I am interested in trying. Not sure how fast that worked. When I researched this a while ago I thought you might need to reapply after  a few weeks, but I am not sure that you really need to wait 6 months.

When dosed too high it might inhibit growth or at least locally have such effects, until the concentrations gradually drop again... so with all due respect to Zelly, but I am just wondering whether it is possible that the higher concentration while effective, leads to an unnecessary delay?
(Just to add: if you played around with different concentrations and just found that to be the most effective with no difference in timeframe, that would be great to hear. And also: various conditions may come into play like whether a sun is shining on it, melting the substance more quickly, or a dog nibbled on the butter gel and spontaneously gave birth)

Edited by Solipsis

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