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El Presidente Hillbillios

Issues with a bag of Wbs

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Hey all,

I have been scratching me head about some contaminataion issues for a while now. I seemed to get Green mould every time. Even in unopened, un-innoculated "test" jars, even after 90mins at 21psi and my regular 24 hr soak beforehand. I switched to a new bag of WBS and issues solved..

The bag that i had the issues with also didnt turn the water that rusty kinda orange colour during the soak either.

Now i don't remeber too much from my uni days but will green mould form an encapsulated spore? Maybe this grain had been wet then redried before sale?

Nothing i could do would stop the dreaded greeness with this paticular bag. Anyone else ever had this kinda weirdness going on?

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I have had bags of budgie mix ( I prefer budgie mix over WBS ) that have been impossible to sterilise. I think your right in thinking that the grain could have been damp at some stage then bagged or something similar. this would of course increase the spore load in the bag.

I can't remember if Trichoderma have a tempriture resistant stage in their life cycle. but I have read of stories of the sunflower seeds being the source of contaminations post PCing in WBS . this is one of the reasons I like budgie mix.

you probably could sterilise, wait and sterilise again, then and again. a kind of super tyndallization method. but you might as well just buy some more grain.

I just accept that it sometimes happens. :)

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pure millets the only grain i can get to work for me

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I've never ever had a contam issue with WBS, are you starting your timer AFTER your PC has hit the required pressure, how are your jar lids? Although I guess if your next lot is ok then those two wouldn't be the problem...

I also boil my wbs for about 10 mins before PCing as apparently it germinates the endospores that wouldn't normally get sterilized unless they've been opened up.

What seed was in the previous mix compared to the new mix?

Round here there are plenty of fodder places, i do my wbs as a custom mix, 3 part millet, 2 part milo, 2 part wheat and my best time for a fully germinated quart jar is 8 days.

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The next bag was the same mix from the same place even, i think im going to go away from wbs too. Prolly 50% of the new bag are floaters and discarded anyway..

I might ty just millet or maybe wheat next. Although budgie mix might be an easy way too.

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WBS is garbage, there is a lot of variation from batch to batch and I find it contaminates more often than it is is successful.

Who knows how it's been handled, as far as I know there are no regulations for the handling and storage of cheap shit meant to feed pigeons.

I found millet is much less prone to contaminate too, sometimes the jars slow down towards the end of colonisation due to poor gas exchange because of the size of the grains. With millet being such a small grain it has advantages too though, the spawn generated with millet is very efficient and gives more inoculation points than larger grains when spawning to bulk.

I can get 12.5 kg of organic biodynamic rye for under $30, so now I don't use anything else.

I use the Roger Rabbit prep method for rye and I get perfect spawn everytime.The only thing I do different is to use about 375 ml dry grain instead of 250 as 250ml only gives about 1/2 a jar of hydrated grain (I use 1 litre jars). His method uses a 12-24 hour pre-soak before boiling the grains, this is said to germinate any bacterial endospores so they can be easily killed in the PC.

A lot of contamination problems at the stage when you spawn your bulk subs comes back to poor quality spawn due to unseen bacterial contams, so you have to get the grain spawn right.

Let's grow mushrooms He doesn't show it on the preview but after he drains the hot water off the grains he tosses the grains (for about ten minutes) to evaporate all the surface moisture off the grains before loading them in the jars, the grains should feel almost dry to touch

Edited by Magicdirt

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I can get 12.5 kg of organic biodynamic rye for under $30, so now I don't use anything else.

 

You can buy rye in Aus? Everywhere i've been and asked if they sell rye they laugh at me :/. I work with someone who seasonally sorts and distributes seeds during the seasonal period for her family and she said rye was a weed :(

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You can buy rye in Aus? Everywhere i've been and asked if they sell rye they laugh at me :/. I work with someone who seasonally sorts and distributes seeds during the seasonal period for her family and she said rye was a weed

I found bio dynamic rye! took a bit of searching , wont get it at supermarkets ,maybe try health food stores? Mine was at a fruit and vege shop in the healthfood section.

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I found bio dynamic rye! took a bit of searching , wont get it at supermarkets ,maybe try health food stores? Mine was at a fruit and vege shop in the healthfood section.

 

Cheers i'll give it a shot, I usually usually go to grain/fodder places and ask there. I'd much prefer to work with rye than wbs, it's so much cleaner. The amount of random twigs and such I find in my bags is ridiculous.

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The grain I get is labelled Demeter Farm Mill

They don't have a fully functional website yet, but if you contact them they should be able to put you onto someone local who stocks their produce.

Demeter Farm Mill

If you can't get rye, wheat works well too. I use organic so I'm sure the grain doesn't have any fungicides or pesticides.

Edited by Magicdirt

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Cheers i'll give it a shot, I usually usually go to grain/fodder places and ask there. I'd much prefer to work with rye than wbs, it's so much cleaner. The amount of random twigs and such I find in my bags is ridiculous.

 

You don't need to spend money chasing rye or bird seed. If you go to a grain store, just buy any whole grain that happens to be cheap that day (i'd stay away from oats though).

I just use whatever grain that's in excess in my distilling shed, be it wheat, triticale, barley, cracked corn ect. Usually whatevers got the weevils in it :lol::o

Just use RR's method (they are indeed available via torrent) of soaking overnight with some gypsum in hot water and then bringing to the boil, boiling for 10 mins or so, draining in a colander to steam for a few minutes while stirring, then top the jars to 2/3rd and let steam a bit more.

[email protected] for 90 min and they come out perfect.

Cracked corn can do with an extra 5-8mins of boiling and gets a bit sticky from the starch, but the whole grains are the ducks nuts. Should be about $20-25 odd for a 40kg bag (unless your seed grader drinks bourbon :wink: ).

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millet needs alot more steaming and tossing to get dry. to moist an its a disaster, just right and its the best grain iver ever used. i toss it whilst hot for a good 30 mins to steam off, then drain over night, then toss around some more to get all the h20 out.

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I have recently started using WBS, I got a Presto 23 quart PC about 3 months ago. I've just finished off a 10 KG bag of Black & Gold Wild Bird Seed without any contams, (about 30 quart jars worth over 3 batches). It does contain a lot of sunflower seeds and corn. I scoop up and discard 95% of the sunflower seeds, and the corn doesn't seem to cause any problems. I bought some Natures Works parrot mix yesterday, it's got the same components minus the corn, and much less sunflower seeds. It's about 20% more expensive, but made locally. I haven't tried it out yet.

I soak mine for 12-24 hours, drain and rinse 3-4 times, simmer for 25 minutes, drain, steam dry, then dry on old towels, PC for 90 minutes, (starting when I reach 90 PSI).

Last batch was innoculated with grain to grain in a glovebox, my first attempt at G2G. They're 60%+ now after shaking a few days ago. No contams.

My batch of blue oysters colonised this stuff like wild-fire!

Edited by Laserteeth

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PC for 90 minutes, (starting when I reach 90 PSI).

 

I gather that was a typo - you wouldn't want to do that in your house!! Ka-boooooom.

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I gather that was a typo - you wouldn't want to do that in your house!! Ka-boooooom.

 

Ah yep, brain-fart! (15PSI obviously!)

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