Is this a real Kava (Piper methysticum)?

[-bijanto-]

I got some rooted cuttings of this plant in October 2003, which was claimed by the sender as kava-kava "Piper methysticum". Now, it's growing like crazy, They seem to grow very quickly on any soil of my garden. They even have their roots break through the bottom of the pots and spread out horizontally as far as they can reach. Here's the link to the pictures of my plant:

Mysterious Piper Plant

I was very proud with this one (I show it to all friends who visit me)....but not until I found out that this plant might not be the real kava-kava (P. methysticum). If this is not the real kava, can anyone point me to a good source of kava cuttings?

I'll appreciate any comment, thanks!

[Happy Cadaver]

Sort of seems more like Piper auritum, its just hard to tell because of the scale. Are the leaves VERY aromatic? Like sassafras? If so, then i'd say you have Piper auritum.

[Benzito]

Now I'm no botanist, and I haven't ever actually seen a live Kava plant. But, looking in a herb guide I have at home and this picture, it appears that the 'veins'(said I wasn't no botanist) on the leaves are more rounded and curved on Methysticum, whereas yours are straight.

As well, the edges of your leaves look somewhat ragged, whereas methysticum has smoothed edges and a slight 'dome' shape to the outer edge of the leaf.

If someone gives me a way to get a picture online, I'll scan the pic from my herb guide. It is actually a great picture for comparison purposes.

BTW: How you liking that Kava I sent you Darcy?

[ 07. March 2005, 16:58: Message edited by: Benzito ]

[-bijanto-]

 

quote:

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Are the leaves VERY aromatic? Like sassafras?

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It is fragrant, yes...but I don't know how sassafras smells like. Here in my area we have another sp called "Piper betel" which is also aromatic, but the scent is totally different, I can't find the similarity. Anyway, don't you think all members of Piper genus are supposed to be aromatic?

 

quote:

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It appears that the 'veins'(said I wasn't no botanist) on the leaves are more rounded and curved on Methysticum, whereas yours are straight.

 

As well, the edges of your leaves look somewhat ragged, whereas methysticum has smoothed edges and a slight 'dome' shape to the outer edge of the leaf.

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Well I guess you're right. I'm just still hoping that my plant is more or less a variety of Piper methysticum.

[Benzito]

I think I understand how you must feel.

I would dearly love to own a Kava plant. And whatever it is you have there is getting to a good size. It would suck to find out it is something else.

Try digging up one piece of root, and test it out. Best way to test for Kavalactones? (scientific methods aside)

[Torsten]

bijanto - does it smell like burmannii leaves/seeds? then it is P.auritum.

Have you ever tasted kava? dig up a tiny piece of root (just a fibre will do) and chew. if tongue goes numb then that makes it more likely to be kava (but not certain).

[planthelper]

other piper roots than kava might numb your tounge aswell...

suggest you remove a bigger piece of rootplus bottom of a stem and dry.

than pound it with the hammer so you get powder,

than compare this powders, smell, taste and so on with some real kava.

kava has a destinctive smell,

but who knows maybe other pipers, smell and taste similar as kava.

i don't think it's kava, sorry mate.

[woof woof woof]

And if after chewing the tiny fiber you feel swelling in the troath and nog getting enough air.... then it is not piper Methysticum!

he he hehe

[Prophet]

Bijanto your plant looks remarkably similar to my plants which i also purchased as a Kava Kava plant from someone. I sure hope it is Kava Kava otherwise i wont be a happy chappy, especially since i put so much effort into growing the things and they are so big and lush. I just looked up a site that says Piper auritum (so called false Kava) has some red veination in some of the leaves and that the leaves can grow much bigger, as well as the plant can grow much bigger. I checked my plants and there appears to be some red veination in the leaves which was a disappointment. I might just dig up one of my plants and test it just to make sure. The leaves are also very aromatic. I wonder how many people have the so called "false Kava" instead of the real thing. The worst bit is that i sent somebody some of the cuttings in the last few days not knowing that they weren't the real Kava

[Prophet]

It would be good to know where one can get the true Kava.

[planthelper]

tort said he would have some later this year,

darcy might have some...

i can provide you with fresh, bare cuttings.

this strain comes from hawai (a man caled steven prowse got it in years ago, quarantine did cost him a mint...) and is called the "black awa" strain, it's said to be very potent,

stronger than fiji kava.

[-bijanto-]

Yes Prophet, what a pain! Torsten & Planthelper, after some googling around and reading all posts here, I'm not interested in smelling the roots anymore, as all those pictures have all the answers.

If planthelper or anyone else here would like to swap your kava cutting, I will likely to have some fresh "Euchresta horsfieldii" seeds soon. It is an aphrodisiac plants which grows naturally at cooler temps (higher altitide) of Java (so it might grow well in cooler part of Australia) and the seed contains cytisine alkaloid etc. The seed is used as decongestant, diuretic, expectorant, vasoconstrictor, emetic and aphrodisiac.

As Torsten wrote in his web page:

The quinolizidine alkaloid Cytisine occurrs in the seeds of Laburnum anagyroides (Laburnum), Anagyris spp, Baptisia spp, Cytisus spp, genista spp, Sophora spp and Thermopsis spp. It is a respiratory stimualnt, with a nicotnie like activity and is hallucinogenic. Highly toxic. The LD50 intraperitoneally in mice is 18mg/kg body weight. Poisoning occurrs often, especially in children and animals after ingesting plant parts, especially the attractive seeds of some of the leguminosae. Cytisine is teratogenic in rabbits and poultry and acts as a feeding deterrent to snails.

I would very much love to swap the Pranajiwa seeds with any of kava variety cutting. Private me if interested !!

Asean Regional Center for Biodiversity Conservation

Pranajiwa, plant for Sex (in Indonesian Lang.)

[Torsten]

why do you think your's is not kava? I am not certain, but it looked like kava to me... hence I thought smelling the roots would be a good idea.

[planthelper]

bijanto,

maybe you got some real kava, the fact you recieved "it"(the plant of your topic) as a cutting speaks this way...

it's hard to say, over the net inspecting low grade pictures if you got some real kava..

i saw lots of fake kava palnts around, maybe thats why i recommand to you to get kava plants, which are sure for real, the real mc coy!

[-bijanto-]

Well maybe I'll chew the roots later, and let you all know what it tastes. However I never know the taste of a real kava, and the leaves doesn't smell like anything I know here, including the Cinnamomum burmanii. I like the smell of cinnamon leaf better.

I have noticed the shape of the leaf, especially the patterns of the veins. In the real kava, all veins begin from one point, unlike the veins of P. auritum.

Here, this is what makes me sure:

Comparison of the Real and False Sakau

From the above site you can see that the side veins of P. auritum do not start from one point, but from along the central vein. Besides, the shape of the real kava leaf is more like a perfect heart similar like that you see in playing cards. That perfect heart shape is also similar to that of Piper betel leaf IMO.

And..this morning I'm just back from the mountain after picking some fresh pranajiwa fruits. I will take their pictures. Could you tell me how to upload a picture to your picture gallery, Torsten? I will start a new topic special to introduce this plant to this forum later, thanks.

[teonanacatl]

 

quote:

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a man caled steven prowse got it in years ago, quarantine did cost him a mint...) and is called the "black awa" strain, it's said to be very potent,

 

stronger than fiji kava.

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steve runs a brugmansia nursery up here now he is also getting into growing a lot of cacti, bought the people who ran the cacti and succlent club up heres whole collection. i will get around to visiting him someday.

[Torsten]

If it doesn't smell of safrole (ie C.burmannii) then it is not Piper auritum!! if it smells muddy and peppery then it might be kava.

[Torsten]

To post to the gallery just sign up, log in and then post. It's pretty self explanatory.

The link is in the navigation bar on the main page.

[apothecary]

teonanacatl:

 

steve runs a brugmansia nursery up here

Do you know if there are any of those in Sydney? Or NSW even?

I would love to go there during flower season and see all the different brugmansia flowers side by side.

[Happy Cadaver]

Here are some pics so you can hopefully differentiate between the two species easier.

http://www.shaman-australis.com.au/gallery...?album=16&pos=1

http://www.shaman-australis.com.au/gallery...?album=16&pos=0

[Stonehenge]

Torsten wrote:

>To post to the gallery just sign up, log in and then post. It's pretty self explanatory.

What is not so self explanatory is how to get the url to the image.

[Torsten]

when you are on the URL that you have posted previously, just right click into the picture itself and then click 'view image'. This then takes the image out of the html page and the URL should end in .jpg (or whatever format the file was in). There will be nothing on that page except the picture (no frames, no writing, no database stuff, no buttons).

[Stonehenge]

Ahh, a useful trick. Thanks Torsten.

[teonanacatl]

i have no idea what safrole smells like but the plants that prophet sent me their leaves taste similar to piper betel, and if i remember right piper betel contains safrole. my first reaction when i saw them was these arnt kava.