Acacia's alkaloid content based on weather

[Eluna]

I was just wondering if any of you could put forward anything you have learnt about acacia's alkaloid contents based on the weather.

Ie, summer/winter etc.

I have found it appeared to be quite low around june but was quite high in febuary(up to 2-3x the amount) but i havent done any more research since then.

What have you all discovered?

[kadakuda]

what species was that?

it seems quite possible due to water/light/temp differences. i have not tested anything though.

[planthelper]

i remeber a post ( i think it was tst) showing flactuations of alakaloid concetrations in viridis over a 24h cycle.

sometimes viridis can excrude a strong dmt smell, and this "scent" is more obvious if the plants leaves where misted with water.

the last time i smelled it, was a few weeks ago, and on this particular day and moments, the weather was exceptional, it was "a winter morning, but that morning it was almost tropical warm".

i right away made a mental note of it as i suspected a conection of the smell and the very sudden warm morning.

i believe alkaloids get influenced by weather, and for me, obviously a hot morning means higher yields.

it could be similar with acacias.

Edited September 23, 2010 by planthelper

[Eluna]

In particular acuminata but i believe it may also apply to the other common ones.

Interesting planthelper..

[mutant]

interesting thread. Looking forward to reading other opinions

[dajindo]

that's what I wanna know too. I guess that production should be highest when there is more stress (that works for most alkaloid-producing plants), and in my opinion that could be winter, but that's just guessing.

and I was also wondering at what age do acacias start producing alkaloids, and at what age is the production highest?

hope it's not too offtopic! can't find that information anywhere

thanks!

[planthelper]

i think the acacias start having alkaloids from birth onwards.

probably the % is higher with mature specimens.

let me sidetrack to something a bit....

many people start off reading about mimosa hostillis, and all the american style dmt talk, and this lead to the conviction of many people that, only the lower parts of the tree are worth processing.

but australian acacias are full of alkaloids right into the tips of small branches and the phyllodes.

phyllodes are the way to go, for small research work.

[kadakuda]

some acacia species' phyllodes are said to be toxic...aussie ones? dunno, but i would be pretty careful

[BushCactus]

i remeber a post ( i think it was tst) showing flactuations of alakaloid concetrations in viridis over a 24h cycle.

sometimes viridis can excrude a strong dmt smell, and this "scent" is more obvious if the plants leaves where misted with water.

the last time i smelled it, was a few weeks ago, and on this particular day and moments, the weather was exceptional, it was "a winter morning, but that morning it was almost tropical warm".

i right away made a mental note of it as i suspected a conection of the smell and the very sudden warm morning.

i believe alkaloids get influenced by weather, and for me, obviously a hot morning means higher yields.

it could be similar with acacias.

 

i agree , The scent excreted from a acacia longfolia strain i am currently analyzing reminds my a lot of LPG ( liquid petroleum Gas ) to be honest, Ive learn't to gauge the expected alkaloid yield and if it will yield anything by this strong almost foul LPG smell. I had to wrap my bark samples in wet waste bags to mask the smell in the car after i obtained the samples.

I have been conducting research into all the acacia's (native and introduced ) in the bushland of nsw, And have had ranging success with every strain i have tested so far ( i believe the reason of my success ranging from Different end crystal formations,Colour of compound & effects etc) was due to different alkaloids present in different strains and because im still perfecting and learning my technique.

I have long been familiar with entheogenic plants,And have a intermediate level of organic chemistry knowledge and experience also with physcopharmacology ( ie the study of substances and there effects on the human physcology and mentality) Alex shulgin is one of my few influences in continuing my feild of research.

He is a physcopharmacologist . Any way back to the subject, I have analyzed in the last month the following strains and identified similiar patterns of results from over 3-5+ strains of acacias in nsw, The following Acacia's:

(A) Acacia baileyana = 250grams - 500grams of bark from tree base (my first research into DMT presence in acacia's,)

END COMPOUND: Yield was orangery more light yellow gooey freebase 1st evap [polar solvent layer][over heat source under 40 mins of 40-60c degrees] 2nd evap of smaller drops of solution over 2-3 day period yield almost dry translucent green tinged slightly spiky crystals.But still compound retained the oily appearance due to being in freebase form,to my knowledge i have always just thought freebase's occur in oil form only .. But keep in mind i am still learning and prior experience with any freebase's always required them in anhydrous form anyway. So im unsure but from the crystallization pattern i observed the freebase following i generally accepted that there must be tryptamine alkaloids present in the solution i was working with. I then proceeded to make a solution of 5-15mls of hydrochloric acid and 300mls of purified water. i then proceded to drop it over the greenish tinged freebase crystals after i scraped them from one evap dish to a fresh pyrex dish. ( approx 1gram of freebase) i used only enough Hydrochloric acid/water solution to dissolve the freebase,Immediatly a reaction occured which kind of looked like just fresh carbonated soda drink when u shake it[the bubbles ontop of the drink] i proceded to evap the solution until it evaporated completed,The precipated compound starting to come out when the solution reach the 1-2mlevel,And it was the appearence of fine slightly yellowish sand grains. I heated the compound slighty further after the solution evaporated off to continue provoking the hydrocholic acid to evap of the compound, As hydrchloric acid is hydrogen gas and chlorine , It changes back into a gas once exposed to a reaction/open air,And even tho u evap the solution of it will still remain in the end product after initial first evap. I noticed heating via flame or heat source isnt nessacary(unsure if cold surround temp played any factors) but i witness the gas evaporating naturally itself just by placing my hands underneath the pyrex dish firmly for 10 mins, My body heat ( around 37 degrees) seemed sufficient to provoke it out of the compound,After i observed the gas had stoped evaporating, I took approx 20mls of methylated spirit and heated it in a glass measuring cylinder until it started to boil,Allow it to bubble just for 2 -3 seconds,And instantly pouring it onto my evaporated compounded, Shaking the dish side to side,and back and fourth and all over combinations to ensure it washes all surface areas of the compound and dish. I then shaked the compound to one corner of the dish,And allowed the methylated spirit to collect in another,Ensure all DMT HCL was left behind,And i retried that solvent solution with a modified 10ml syringe,This solution aquired a yellowish tinge,And contains the impurities carried over from bark and extraction ( undesirable alkoloids in bark,Sodium hydroxide,Methanol,isopropyl etc) I initialy tried the compound b4 washing it,it was orangish and slightly wet in appearence from traces of solvent impurities,i will discuss the effect shortly. back to the subject, i continued washing the compound 3-4 times using more polar solvent each wash, raising the level 0.50ml each time. And the compound became white and more sand like each time considerably. I confess i only experemented considerably with my first few 1-3 gram yeilds of the yellowish orange product with a mate,Using a typical crack pipe . And bic lighter, I noticed a effect that was short lasting and really natural in its effects, The first time i tried it alone after converting a 1 gram of freebase to the HCL salt i noticed a effect of 200-300mgs smoked that was really orgasmic feeling,starting at my lower back and finish at the top of my neck just bellow the starting of my hair in the back of my kneck,This felt extremely good and lasted 8 seconds approx,It also felt like hairs were standing on end,However i dont have any body hair on my back or neck, I rule out solvent impuritys acounting for the effect allthough agree my product was impure,but mostly from impurities carried over from the bark,And perhaps small amounts of caustic, ( testing PH with litmus yeilded a instant heavy orange shade indicating PH 1-3 acidic. Acount off the hydrochloric acid convering the freebase into a hydrochloric salt.

Here is the strain i analysed to obtain those results

Acacia baileyana

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Acacia_baileyana.jpg

i have confirmed 10+ more acacias in a 200km radius of my location consisting mostly of

Acacia baileyana and Acacia dealbata. Also have found rarer strains of the acacia longfolia strains, Particular Acacia maidenii http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Acacia_maidenii.jpg and Acacia-longifolia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Acacia-longifolia-branch.jpg , and im currently working with a longifolia strain now which is proving to be the most primising yet, A a/b extraction yeilded a yellowish freebase. And i converted it the HCL with hydrochlic acid and water and left it to naturally evap over a few days a few days ago,i will be checking in on it today. The last observation i notice a considerable amount of squarish translucent crystal with alot of yellowish impurites ive yet to was off,wil keep results posted.

[naja naja]

winter low, my guess from water/rain. end of long dry hot summer, much higher. As u say, 2-3X. Sounds like u have dreamed well.

[Yawning Man]

What purpose do alkaloids in acacias serve? Is it similair to when cacti get stressed they bump up the production of alkaloids? Extreme weather in any case would prob be enough to alter a plants function.

What about an acacia growing out of it's natural range, in the case of phlebophylla (spelling lol)?

cheers

EDIT: Off topic.

Edited October 1, 2010 by Yawning Man

[Bush Turkey]

i was told that now is the time cause they are most active growing now. just before flower. but also depends on location. location A 1.3% location B 100kms away double that. is there a differance on average alkaloids to narrow and typical phyllode. or burkitti? Acuminata that is

Edited October 2, 2010 by B_T

[indigo264nm]

From what I've always been told, when dealing with A. obtusifolia in particular, harvesting in winter is the best time. Maybe it has something to do with how well the alkaloids survive the very long car trip home once the bark is stripped, but yeah I was always under the impression to harvest obtus in winter.

[planthelper]

some acacia species' phyllodes are said to be toxic...aussie ones? dunno, but i would be pretty careful

 

i think to remeber that some toxins are not long term stable, meaning storage will make them safe.

but some acacias definatel have maybe some nasty (alkaloids included) stuff with them,

some of them might come across via an a/b.

i remeber stories aswell from a person "who knows", he said longifolias are only good in winter, if i remeber correctly.

some people even claimed maidenii is winter active, i think it's bull.

Edited October 2, 2010 by planthelper

[Magicdirt]

Everyone seems to have opinions based more on instinct than science.

Maybe there needs to be some sort of field test, that can give an indication of alkaloids.

I know this is a bit off track but a brix test can be one way to identify the quality of many agricultural products, maybe if the brix readings were documented at harvest and alkaloid levels were determined via a standardised extraction procedure some sort of relationship to brix readings could be established.(maybe an inverse relationship to high brix readings)

A stressed plant would typically score lower on a brix refractometer test and this could give some insight into the question at hand.

Brix test

A brix refractometer can found reasonably cheap these days and could eliminate a bit of confusion maybe ?

[planthelper]

but you would need to work with clones, which is tricky with acacias.

there are studies out ther already, but i think they are inconclusive.

[Magicdirt]

but you would need to work with clones, which is tricky with acacias.

there are studies out ther already, but i think they are inconclusive.

 

Good point

I was thinking of taking samples from the same specimen to test for seasonal variation, but there could some other factors come into play and confuse the results.