New rules about the post rating system

[Torsten]

There has been a lot of discussion about the post rating system. My stance is that it could be a really good thing if it wasn't being abused. And I was almost going to turn it off until I realised I can actually monitor it for abuse.

I can see who makes what votes. I can see how many times a member has voted. I can also see exactly which post the vote applies to [ie I can see if it is deserved]. Not that I am terribly interested in these things, UNLESS I suspect the system is being abused.

After looking at chiral's [aka drugged out liar] post ratings I can see that about 40 of his negatizes were done out of spite by just two people. They negatized posts that couldn't possibly have deserved a reputation one way or the other, which shows me that they were just trying to heap negatizes onto chiral regardless of post content. So here is what's going to happen from now:

1) If I find a member ratings posts in a manner that is being spiteful or padding a reputation [ie positive or negative] I will remove all of that member's ratings and will add that number as negative points to his rating.

2) Any member thus found abusing the system will be excluded permanently from the rating system [will act on low level of proof, so be careful].

3) Any member found clearly abusing the system will be given a warn point and a 1 month suspension for first offence and a permanent ban for second [will only act on high level of proof].

4) This will be enacted retrospectively, so if you have negatized a member out of spite then I suggest you balance it quickly - I will be looking at the full history to make my decision. I am giving this leeway because I believe some good hearted members got carried away in the last few months . You can also PM me with your confession if it is over 10 ratings for one target and I will go and edit the ratings manually [put 'confession' in the subject line and do not include anything else in your message].

The forums rules have been edited accordingly.

Let's use this system for what it is designed to do, which is to help others [especially noobs] to get a quicker and better understanding of the subject matter. I suggest to not use the ratings system AT ALL in the chill space as it is counterproductive there.

Chiral's count has been adjusted accordingly and I must say I am pleased to see that he did not retaliate which should put things into perspective with those who abused the system.

[mr me]

I see you turning this feature off after a while Torsten. I think the rating system has value so I hope you have help in monitoring it or you will end up wasting your time being policeman rather then improving the site, making interesting posts or running your business.

I would agree with you about chill space but you might want to do the same with bitches, gripes etc.

I think point 3 is fair.

People need to chill out and realize why they are on this forum in the first place. If someone offends you, try and clarify whats up rather then getting in a foul mood - there might be a simple misunderstanding. If there are still issues then just ignore them.

Edited August 27, 2010 by mr me

[ref1ect1ons]

I dont mean to tell anyone what to do, but I feel i would like to ask chiral to change his name back, because I personally dont see him as a drugged-out-liar, though we have had no interaction.

I just feel like everybody could be friendly again(ofcourse with the scathing criticisms for mine and others stupid ideas intact, but done in a nice way) ...so yeah that was the spirit with which i make the suggestion/ask chiral/drugged out liar to change his name back.

If you like your new name though... u kno, keep it ...n stuff.

[gerbil]

Don't know if it's really open for comment, but i reckon get rid of it, positives or negatives it's all a bit pointless, i think if people spend the time around they can see what is valid and what isn't, who contributes, who doesn't and the quality of it. I can see the point of ticking quality information, but what's the flipside? negatize misleading information? and who's to say it was informative or misleading when they may not be fully aware of where a person is coming from? why can't people just talk, a plus or minus still needs an explanation imo to explain why or why not information is or isn't feasibile/quality. People interpret posts differently as well as positives and negatives. To me, if it needs an explanation, which to me they all do, they the initial rating is completely redundant and a waste of energy.

I found myself using it for the first time (i think?) the other day, a positive rating on someone who imo reacted relatively maturely in a situation where i think they were jumped on irrationally and highly hypocritically, i guess with my point of view a comment would have been appropriate, the means was to give the person who wrote it some sort of support in what i saw was a needless post to justify their position which shouldn't have even been brought up in the first place.

The main reason i didn't make a post is because i was fairly certain the person who i was going 'against' if it must be put that way, would get hurt from the comments and wouldn't take them onboard even though i think it was a sensible and thought out support towards an attacked member who did nothing wrong in my eyes.

People shouldn't feel awkward or guilty for rationally putting a point across because others don't want to acknowledge their own wrong doing and any constructive criticism is taken as a mass personal attack where they blow it all out of proportion and storm off, it's unfair to all involved and highly unproductive which just creates even more negativity, paranoia and sadness.

To me it's fairly obvious we are quite a sensitive and passionate bunch, i know i am, to me it just creates more self doubt, ego inflation and a downward spiral in the long term. We need to communicate more effectively and openly, not base situations on numbers, people need to be able to put constructive criticism out there and people need to take rational criticism put on them to thought and sort that shit out, not create a fight over it. To me it's fairly obvious a lot of people always think they are in the right when quite clearly they are not, to me this isn't opinion, even though i suppose people would argue any point of view is always someones opinion, above that, i think we all can see situations where we know what is right and wrong which is not opinion based and the people going each other need to take a look at themselves and stop thinking everyone is out to get them, we are all human, make mistakes, nothing to be ashamed of, it's shameful when we can't admit to when we are wrong!

Even all this discussion, how much energy is this wasting?? if the rating system does stay, i sure hope it does something positive in the longterm, else what a destructive waste!

[ref1ect1ons]

Gerbil I realised after I +1 ur post that I was actually undermining the spirit of your post, so yeah, imagine I didnt do that.

[rahli]

Don't know if it's really open for comment, but i reckon get rid of it, positives or negatives it's all a bit pointless, i think if people spend the time around they can see what is valid and what isn't, who contributes, who doesn't and the quality of it.

 

+1

[Amazonian]

YAY. This was good news to wake up to. On ya' Torsten.

Edited August 27, 2010 by Amazonian

[Magicdirt]

I "padded" someones rep the other day because he sent me something that I really appreciated.

He hasn't been here long and I thought he deserved a good rep for his generosity.

I've generally only given a neg when someone has posted something to incriminate themselves (I've also notified them by PM of my actions) to get their attention and hopefully make them go back and edit the careless wording of their post.

After they've re-worded their post I have given positive rating on other posts to balance things out.

Someone was giving people negs for introducing themselves too, that seemed a bit petty so I bumped those posts back up.

I think I may have given negs when some noob has blown in and started pimping their wares too(Not sure if it was this forum)

All in all it is a bit of a toss though - the rating system that is.

[occidentalis]

Is there a way to see all the ratings that you've given? Can't seem to find it in the profile/settings. I don't know if I've rated anyone.

[Torsten]

I don't intend to let this ratings system become much of a bother to me, hence the tough penalties for abusing it. I've had a good look around at who is using and abusing it and in the VAST majority it is used as intended. Like over 95% of ratings would be genuine and I can count the abusers on two hands [at least half of which I am sure will stop now that they are embarrased by it not being so anonymous after all]. So should the rest of us be held to ransom by a handful of people who probably shouldn't be here anyway?

The reason I'd like to keep it for the moment is because I like that it replaces the many affirmative but otherwise useless posts some people make [eg 'me too', '+1', 'love it', etc. . I use the like and dislike button on facebook a lot and feel that this is quite similar. Again, it only becomes a problem when abused, so rather than getting rid of the system I prefer to get rid of the abusers. I do keep an open mind about it though. I am not going to be bullied into getting rid of it by a handful of people abusing it, but if I genuinely feel that it serves no purpose when used properly then I'd be happy to let it go.

[gerbil]

Cool :D am open to the different possibilities and definitely think it's a good thing that it's not completely anonymous, will be interesting to see how it goes. Very good point about the chill space, can have it's place being utilised there i guess as it's a broad range of topics there, but with the more so meaning of the package i.e. productive subject matter more so focused on what this place is really about, seems logical where to utilize it. Cheers.

[kindness]

I had always figured you could see the +'s or -'s anyway torsten. Thats why I gave you so many... so confession to that.

It would be great if the software / forum engine could allow members to see who clicks the buttons on their posts... reducing the level of anonymity would definately make people think twice.

I didn't even know the whole + or - thing existed until some joke sort of thread was started a while ago with someone asking to be made popular...

anyhow, thank you for the authoritative words on using the 'rep' buttons Torsten.

peace

[The Deb-One-Amine]

What If It Wasnt Points But A Symbol Or Something Of the Kind under The Display Picture...Say Stars Like 1 for bad, 5 stars For Neutral and 10 for Great And then That System Is then Worked on The ammount of Posts Made and the Ammount Of Postive And Negative marks

[santiago]

FISHMO

[Rabelais]

The reason I'd like to keep it for the moment is because I like that it replaces the many affirmative but otherwise useless posts some people make [eg 'me too', '+1', 'love it', etc. . I use the like and dislike button on facebook a lot and feel that this is quite similar.

 

I mod at another forum, we had the similar problems for a while. We turned off negative ratings - positives only.

I agree about the comparison to Facebook. It is a way of saying thanks to someone who replied to an earlier post of yours...a way of saying thanks without actually posting it and letting friends know you seen their post and enjoyed it. But ofcourse, this only works without anonymity.

[Torsten]

I mod at another forum, we had the similar problems for a while. We turned off negative ratings - positives only.

I agree about the comparison to Facebook. It is a way of saying thanks to someone who replied to an earlier post of yours...a way of saying thanks without actually posting it and letting friends know you seen their post and enjoyed it. But ofcourse, this only works without anonymity.

 

Definitely an option. But for someone who specifically installed the 'dislike' app on facebook [like me], it might not be quite as appealing ;)

[The Dude]

Gerbil I realised after I +1 ur post that I was actually undermining the spirit of your post, so yeah, imagine I didnt do that.

 

hehe, I realised as I was reading the post, I agree, I should give a positive rating... ooooh! Added one anyway for a laugh.

[mutant]

maybe it's useful after all. I +ed gerbil and saved my time

[Bush Turkey]

so your gonna penalize people for their opinions? is that you hitler? remember this aint facebook! its becoming to much like a social networking site! time to negatize! get over it and ignore it. if i get banned for negatizing dont think i would wanna come back to a forum that does that!

[Evil Genius]

is that you hitler?

there comes the nazi card again...i was expecting it a lot earlier!

B_T, if your votings are thread or topic related, i dont think that this is a Problem. We´re talking about giving the same person something like 25 negs in 25 diffrent threads. If we dont stop this from continuing, we´ll only have tons of asskissing posts in the future because nobody dares to give his honest opinion on a topic. Actually this measure will be taken in order to give our members the chance even speaking out unpopular opinions without the fear of looking like a minus 100 Grandmother murdering Troll that doesnt send out his trades and stuff. There are still a lot of ways to state your honest thoughts and nobody will punish your for that. We respect all of our members, no matter how popular or unpopular they might be. And thats the point we want to make by looking into these excessive ratings. bye Eg

Edited August 31, 2010 by Evil Genius

[Bush Turkey]

wait i think i misunderstood. Are people who abuse the points system expelled from the site? not that i abuse it. i vote where i think its needed

[Evil Genius]

Are people who abuse the points system expelled from the site?

yeah thats right, B_T. If you use the rating to "like" or "dislike" a certain post, comment or thread, then you dont have to be worried about it. The system by itself is a good thing. We´re just keeping it from being abused. bye Eg

Edited August 31, 2010 by Evil Genius

[Torsten]

The overwhelming majority of ratings are genuine or at least look genuine. A small number are blatantly abusive. It's a bit hard to explain, but when I looked at the patterns of ratings the abusers stood out like sore thumbs.

I am not discouraging negative ratings. I am certainly not discouraging the use of the rating system overall. I just want to protect the integrity of it. The good thing is I already know who the first batch of rotten apples are, so it will be easy to keep an eye on them.

Maybe next time you should read the post before making such a rude and rather dumb comment.

[planthelper]

but can you check aswell the ip nummber?

what i mean, at the old eb forum i could see if i wanted to, all the members ip addys, that made it very clear to me who had a sock puppet and used it to bump there own threads in a positive mannor.

the same could happen with the ratings, it might be rare, but nevertheless can be used very maliciously.

i once read a pretty fresh post and it had +4, and i wondered how such a shit post can get +4, right away, anyway over days, the +4 melted but it took a few good people to wipe out an abuse of the system.

anyway, that system totaly fails for you if you, are a knowledgable member, but with an at times controversial character, that's me, but favors people with little plantknowledge, but a humorous character.

after a while people will read more the posts of the humorous character, and belive that's where the info is, but it's not. so it's the end of this being a plant knowledge forum.

Edited September 9, 2010 by planthelper

[mr me]

but can you check aswell the ip nummber?

what i mean, at the old eb forum i could see if i wanted to, all the members ip addys, that made it very clear to me who had a sock puppet and used it to bump there own threads in a positive mannor.

 

I'm not a fan of recording IP addreses and I'm sure I am not alone. If people want to get around it, then there are plenty of proxy sites.