TWEAKERS THREAD- Caring for Your Body

[Chiral]

do you think it's possible for batches to contain considerably different isomer ratios? '.. dextro isomers of both amph and meth are more potent in stimulating behavior than levo isomers'

...

apparently the 4 chlorinated version of amp and met are both powerful serotonergic depleters.

 

This is such an interesting area of stimulants, I wish i was more versed on chem so I could decipher whats actually going on...I think it's in the reduction, not so much what reduction is being used rather whats actually happening right there in the reduction, time, ratios, heat etc...some batches can make you incredibly horny and euphoric, then say another will make you grow tiny cock and want to clean the house from top to bottom, another batch will have short legs and have a completely unique feel, another will make your eyes itchy after two days, another will make you pull strange faces for extended peroids without you knowing...I mean there are way way a lot of subtitles between batches, it's almost like different wines...the only obvious regular "you can count" on feel is the Dextro isomer pharmaceuticals obviously are bound to be.

Some people say it is due to the type of reduction used but I can't get my head around that...if the same pure alkaloid is being reduced by a salvated free electron then you would think that the outcome would or should be the same, seems it never is due to clandestine manufacture I'm assuming and so you end up with a product that can be over reduced or partially under reduced with many contaminants. I've always wondered what pharmaceutical made pure D meth would be like, as I think the L isomer is all but inactive is it not.

Thanks for your post Alchemica, really interesting stuff there.

I'd like to add that people have given a chemical a bad name due to over use and short term heavy abuse, once again in moderation and correct dosage levels coupled with knowledge and appropriate fluid and food intake and an individual can live a relatively normal life and never have to look bad and say wow that stuff is bad and evil man. Sure if you try it and want to get fucked up and high then you are bound to crash and burn and feel the street coming up beneath you fast, also when taking these substances, the whole point is to remain active and awake for extended periods isn't it, so if yo don't have plans to occupy that time with something worthwhile etc then don't do it, planning and knowing your time frames, managing your output and seeing where the end is all helpful in balancing a very potent chemical into your natural daily life. Those with high concentration jobs that demand focus for 8 or more hrs solid can derive extreme benefit from a dose straight after breakfast as early possible, making sure to drink appropriate water through out the day and eat good things like apples, nuts and seeds, drink tea (green) and remembering to keep check of muscular tension and any jaw clenching. If you time things right you should be able to eat dinner, drink a hot choclate and be in bed by midnight and wake up relatively ok feeling.

For those that have never the film requiem for dream I suggest you download it and watch it, it's an amazing film, some find it disturbing and couldn't watch it twice, but I loved it, it's a lot like "SPUN" but darker and more twisted..

REQUIEM FOR A DREAM

[ThunderIdeal]

gotta watch that movie, never been able to maintain interest in it

i've edited the first post a little bit

in light of some conversation in other threads, i am requesting opinions on dosing regimes. acute tolerance, value (euphoria, stimulation) for money (neurotoxicity and other health costs), variations in come-on..... you peak before the levels of meth in your brain peak so there is probably a very short term tolerance that takes effect. raises a very important question i think, of how to get the most result with the least molecule and/or least duration of molecule in your body. this seems important.

is the answer 'dump it all, never re-dose?'

and would it be prudent to acidify yourself, removing the drug faster but getting a practically equal effect?

what about ingestion method? i've read that vaped, it sticks around for about 2 hours more than swallowed. altho swallowing is a touch wasteful (70% effective IIRC) it might be less neurotoxic.

Edited July 17, 2010 by ThunderIdeal

[Distracted]

what about ingestion method? i've read that vaped, it sticks around for about 2 hours more than swallowed. altho swallowing is a touch wasteful (70% effective IIRC) it might be less neurotoxic.

 

No way, vaped is definately more eurphoric with a shorter span. It'll scatter your thoughts too. Highly carcinogenic.

Ingested lasts longer and is still useful but not really eurphoric unless ingesting larger quantities.

[ThunderIdeal]

i'm somewhat sure of what i read, so this is why it's so confusing. the duration of the effects is not completely related to the presence of shit in your head. so yeah, i think i read that, maybe it's half life? in the brain is 11 hours ingested 13 hours smoked... blah. mechanism wasn't fully understood but the peak experience happens before the levels in your brain peak so it's probably an 'acute tolerance' blah

[mutant]

the whole point is to remain active and awake for extended periods isn't it, so if yo don't have plans to occupy that time with something worthwhile etc then don't do it

I agree 100% with this part of Chirals advice/insight.

"...worthwhile..." ... & suitable I would add.

IME/IMO adjusting dose so as to last at 8 ~ 15 hours, then chill-out, taking rest, sleep, then eat the next day is the best way to use. Body and mind will be tired next day after an intense speedy night but this is normal.

If one gets depressive tendencies after even one such use though, maybe you'd better think again about doing it, especially overdoing it...

Edited July 18, 2010 by mutant

[PhoenixSon]

Its a working drug imho, thats why its rife in performance based work places and jobs that have shit hours. The free coffe does shit when you have to work a 12 hour shift doing intensive work.

Andyamine wrote he used to clean his gear with acetone, if you have the money it would be worth it.

Railing would probally be the most balanced way to take it. Wouldnt want to plug the stuff that shits gotta burn.

[Chiral]

Its a working drug imho, thats why its rife in performance based work places and jobs that have shit hours. The free coffe does shit when you have to work a 12 hour shift doing intensive work.

 

Yeah absolutely, whats ironic is that you see millions of people gulping and sculling stimulant based drinks like red bull, V or double shot lattes, trying desperately to beat the drowsiness or get through their tedious work on caffeine.

DEA and govt's world wide have a huge hard on for eliminating street stimulants, the desire and demand for these chemicals is so high world wide that it would absolutely blow your mind to know the real facts & figures of who uses, yet this philosophy flies directly in the face of the machine, the mans desire to pump out more crap, faster and for longer. A pharmaceutical pure stimulant, at correct dosage, placed into the worker before each shift would push those bar graphs to the sky within months...fighter pilots have been allowed to use it but they are protecting us from the enemy.

Said it a million times before, there a hundreds of thousands of functioning stim users, they are the people that can actually do jobs most couldn't even fathom, then there are people with chronic fatigue, these people can now actually take part in life and make a go due to the availability of pharmaceutical pure dextro.

The majority of the problems world wide arise from these drugs when the poor and bored use them to create something in their life that doesn't exist, to fill voids, they keep dosing and keep dosing until a spiral of darkness opens up and takes them and few possible innocents with them.

[ThunderIdeal]

fuck burning your candle at both ends to improve the man's bottom line. most jobs don't pay enough to justify that much less fund it.

besides, how would you have a snooze at lunch and generally slack off?

cleaning... i've read that loss is inevitable, but that could be wrong. you can apparently use acetone or bleach to make the cut sink, at least in the case of MSM. that's to give you an idea of %, i dunno look it up, don't imagine msm is an issue with other methods but it's a bit crappy when vaping

anybody got any herbal recommendations perhaps?

[Alchemica]

do you think it's possible for batches to contain considerably different isomer ratios? '.. dextro isomers of both amph and meth are more potent in stimulating behavior than levo isomers'

 

d-pseudoeph (natural) --> d-m

l-pseudoeph--> l-m

l-eph (natural) --> d-m

d-eph --> l-m

P2P --> racemic dl-m under standard red. amin.

*It is generally considered that the ee of the synthetic reactions is close to 100%. Eg. d-pseudoeph forms pure d-m (the killer drug "Ice").

It's debatable whether reaction conditions could allow for inversion of stereochemistry in some of the starting product (eg, partial conversion of l-eph to d-eph (--> racemate) with acid cat. might occur, causing the subsequent product to differ)

Pure d-m isn't always the most liked (but it's generally the case) - the peripheral stimulation (l-m) coupled with central high (d-m) might lead dl-m to be considered more energising and desirable.

I'd be more worried about what they are cutting it with, how stingey they are, or impurities from reduction (which may be centrally active eg. beta-halomethamp, aziridines etc).

---

It seems EGCG competitively inhibits L-AADC (inhibiting decarboxylation of 5-HTP/L-Dopa etc) but I don't think it would be a big problem at the doses used. COMT inhibition also occurs with ECGC and might add to any stimulant effects.

---

Chiral, I would have thought the majority of stuff on the streets in Aus was extremely cut d-m, resulting from reduction of d-pseudoeph. Otherwise, you can head to the US and convince a Dr you need a script for Desoxyn.

Edited July 19, 2010 by Alchemica

[Chiral]

d-pseudoeph (natural) --> d-m

l-pseudoeph--> l-m

l-eph (natural) --> d-m

d-eph --> l-m

P2P --> racemic dl-m under standard red. amin.

*It is generally considered that the ee of the synthetic reactions is close to 100%. Eg. d-pseudoeph forms pure d-m (the killer drug "Ice").

It's debatable whether reaction conditions could allow for inversion of stereochemistry in some of the starting product (eg, partial conversion of l-eph to d-eph (--> racemate) with acid cat. might occur, causing the subsequent product to differ)

Pure d-m isn't always the most liked (but it's generally the case) - the peripheral stimulation (l-m) coupled with central high (d-m) might lead dl-m to be considered more energising and desirable.

I'd be more worried about what they are cutting it with, how stingey they are, or impurities from reduction (which may be centrally active eg. beta-halomethamp, aziridines etc).

---

It seems EGCG competitively inhibits L-AADC (inhibiting decarboxylation of 5-HTP/L-Dopa etc) but I don't think it would be a big problem at the doses used. COMT inhibition also occurs with ECGC and might add to any stimulant effects.

---

Chiral, I would have thought the majority of stuff on the streets in Aus was extremely cut d-m, resulting from reduction of d-pseudoeph. Otherwise, you can head to the US and convince a Dr you need a script for Desoxyn.

 

in reference to the post above this yeah...

The dextrorotary (+)- or d- enantiomer is (1S,2S)-Pseudoephedrine, whereas the levorotating (−)- or l- form is (1R,2R)-Pseudoephedrine.

In the outdated d/l system (+)-Pseudoephedrine is also referred to as l-Pseudoephedrine and (—)-Pseudoephedrine as d-Pseudoephedrine (in the Fisher projection then the phenylring is drawn at bottom). [2]

Often the d/l system (with small caps) and the d/l system (with lower-case) are confused. The result is that the dextrorotary d-Pseudoephedrine is wrongly named d-Pseudoephedrine and the levorotary l-Ephedrine (the diastereomer) wrongly l-Ephedrine.

The IUPAC names of the two enantiomers are (1S,2S)- respectively (1R,2R)-2-methylamino-1-phenylpropan-1-ol. Synonyms for both are psi-Ephedrine and threo-Ephedrine.

Pseudoephedrine is the International Nonproprietary Name (INN) of the (+)-form, when used as pharmaceutical substance.

outdated D/L system

An enantiomer can be named by the direction in which it rotates the plane of polarized light. If it rotates the light clockwise (as seen by a viewer towards whom the light is traveling), that enantiomer is labeled (+). Its mirror-image is labeled (−). The (+) and (−) isomers have also been termed d- and l-, respectively (for dextrorotatory and levorotatory). Naming with d- and l- is easy to confuse with d- and l- labeling.

Chiral, I would have thought the majority of stuff on the streets in Aus was extremely cut d-m, resulting from reduction of d-pseudoeph. Otherwise, you can head to the US your local Australian psychiatrist and convince them you need a script for Desoxyn Dexamphetamine.

 

Fixed and yes it's relatively simple and gratefully so for those that do indeed suffer from chronic fatigue, Adult attention deficit disorder and a good sympathetic Dr will put you on Dex to help you stay off and clear you of street D-ma. With very close monitoring and piss testing this is can be godsend for those requiring this type of treatment.

I imagine street ma in oz is largely Asian by now, probably Rp & I reduced pseudo, who knows, how can anyone ever possibly tell what it's cut with without reagent kits etc...yes some stuff has parts of the matrix that burn off very quickly with little to no vapor, have seen that a few times only in the past when used to use it, a much larger chunk of product seen sometime ago was relatively pure and would pool up sparkling clear at correct MP and produce plumes of vapor and hit like a sexual sledgehammer after 2 tokes. Cost of street product has risen to stupid levels due to Asian importation, lack of pseudo here means that the Asian criminal gangs get richer and stronger faster. typical cat and mouse stuff with one always trying to out the other, the end user suffers and generally fucks up or dies.

When trying to read about current trends in OZ manufacturing from reports and busts etc it appears that larger criminal organizations are reverting back to the p2p methods and there are only very small scale reductions using pseudo.

The history of amphetamines is a fascinating insight into drugs and teaches you so much about people and tactics, health, the law, all sorts...once you strip it all down it's crazy to think you could get your precursors from the ocean for MA and without even too much knowledge knock them up for use.

The fact we understand that chemicals can affect our receptors in certain ways is something to study for an eternity, it brings untold fascination, for someone like me who is totally preoccupied with the mind, though unfortunately uneducated, these substances offer insight into something on a much grander scale, an infinite web of electrical currents and amines.

Edited July 20, 2010 by Chiral

[Chiral]

Alchemica *It is generally considered that the ee of the synthetic reactions is close to 100%. Eg. d-pseudoeph forms pure d-m (the killer drug "Ice").

 

Isn't the term ice misused, as 99% of street MA is just d-MA not 4-Methylaminorex which is actually real ice.

[mutant]

fuck burning your candle at both ends to improve the man's bottom line. most jobs don't pay enough to justify that much less fund it.

amazing! I agree with Thunder

I think using speed for anything else than recreation is a totally different thing with a different philosophy of use. I consider it a waste and considering it would be used more often than the occasional recreation, it could also be more addictive & dangerous.

I mean, why waste the stuff to go to work or study for some exams, while you can do that shit anyway and save the stuff for a nice saturday out or at a party?

That's just me though.

[Chiral]

amazing! I agree with Thunder

I think using speed for anything else than recreation is a totally different thing with a different philosophy of use. I consider it a waste and considering it would be used more often than the occasional recreation, it could also be more addictive & dangerous.

I mean, why waste the stuff to go to work or study for some exams, while you can do that shit anyway and save the stuff for a nice saturday out or at a party?

That's just me though.

 

LOL I never said it would be good, but when has the MAN ever been concerned with us before output, economics and profits...if you get my drift.

Hey there may come a time in the future when employers are pushed to the brink, they might well consider this appalling tactic, history has a habit of painting brutal, evil things in the name of money and war. It's been used in the military to gain an advantage, it doesn't take Einstein to work out that it be used in the workforce to fatten the pockets of big business, gain the upper hand in volatile markets, bah whats a few thousand workers lives when a big pile of money could be had.

In a world of ever increasing pressure to keep up and be better, stronger, faster, smarter, sooner...well people will always want that edge.

Back on topic...swimming is one of the most perfect exercises for the body, I recommend it anyone who hates general regular grind on the mill stuff...swim lots, help your body help it's self heal. anaerobic, hard cardiovascular exercise and using amphetamines is a recipe for disaster in my opinion...swimming is a much gentler way to stay a little healthy, helps you sleep a lot easier too.

rest is so important....who doesn't love sleeping.

[dragonfly]

we're talking about the stuff that keeps you awake forever, at least i am lol and alchemica surely is. pity that skirting around the name like this won't do much for people searching for this kind of thread, let alone confusing everyone that tries to contribute.

 

I must say I am a bit confused, and agree with the other poster - what are the benefits of taking something that "really fucks with your body" and makes you stay awake for so long that you become dehydrated, clench fists, sore eyes, tattered mouth etc. I'm sure that to some people the benefits would outweigh the negatives, but can someone tell me what the benefits are? I sure wouldn't want to stay awake for that long to get all those side effects...

[Chiral]

I must say I am a bit confused, and agree with the other poster - what are the benefits of taking something that "really fucks with your body" and makes you stay awake for so long that you become dehydrated, clench fists, sore eyes, tattered mouth etc. I'm sure that to some people the benefits would outweigh the negatives, but can someone tell me what the benefits are? I sure wouldn't want to stay awake for that long to get all those side effects...

 

I think the point of the tread is to educate and talk about if you choose to use these substances, then what are peoples experiences with trying to balance out any health issues of use.

Some benefits of taking are...

Working tedious and normally mentally draining jobs.

Concentration for studying

Partying.

Chronic fatigue syndrome.

Weightless.

Correcting in the short term attention deficit.

Sex.

[dragonfly]

I think the point of the tread is to educate and talk about if you choose to use these substances, then what are peoples experiences with trying to balance out any health issues of use.

Some benefits of taking are...

Working tedious and normally mentally draining jobs.

Concentration for studying

Partying.

Chronic fatigue syndrome.

Weightless.

Correcting in the short term attention deficit.

Sex.

 

I understand those things, and there are many things you can take to stay awake for partying, studying etc, but I don't understand why you would want to stay awake for 3-5 days, 1 or 2 times a year. I am interested to know what the benefits of staying awake for days is? Also what are the ethnobotanical herbs/plants that would keep you awake for this long?

[ThunderIdeal]

i don't really see there being any benefits in staying awake excessively long periods, that's usually just a matter of continuing on a binge and sleeplessness is a consequence of that (i wonder if you missed the part where people take it for an extremely powerful euphoric rush). the benefit doesn't lie in the long periods awake, unless you happen to have some task at hand that requires you remain attentive and energised when you should be nodding off. slybacon said something about reaching a point where you can choose which thoughts to think, but generally i find the longer you're awake the higher the cost to your body and mind so it should probably be avoided, but perhaps somebody wishes to explore that particular mindstate? eventually it's a lot like being in a dream except you're awake, you can't stop seeing and hearing things that aren't there yet it's nothing at all like tripping. it's kinda crappy in some ways and that's why people re-dose or try to get to sleep.

this thread is not to glorify anything and that's why i don't want these kinds of questions/debates to occur, because glorifying it is the natural reaction. i think your question has been answered.

[dragonfly]

this thread is not to glorify anything and that's why i don't want these kinds of questions/debates to occur, because glorifying it is the natural reaction. i think your question has been answered.

 

that partly answered my question. I am interested to know what herbs/plants can keep you awake for that long?

[Rabaelthazar]

Yeah, not herbs.

[ThunderIdeal]

i'm pretty sure that the blackfellas had some but i don't remember what they are. probably plants containing ephedrine would be good. yohimbe. plants with caffeine such as coffee, yerba, guarana and tea. coca maybe. i'm just throwing out possibilities, none of these are likely to compare to the strength of a synthetic chemical.

[ThunderIdeal]

keep the info coming peeps.

i'm conscious of how this thread reflects on us and how it's viewed by other members but so far we haven't descended into denigrating or glorifying this substance so umm go team. it's only fair that we have this thread because opiates are discussed here so openly.

dragonfly here's a bit of an explanation of why it's so alluring, and dangerous.

in lab experiments done on animals, sex causes dopamine levels to jump from 100 to 200 units, and cocaine causes them to spike to 350 units. "[With] methamphetamine you get a release from the base level to about 1,250 units, something that's about 12 times as much of a release of dopamine as you get from food and sex and other pleasurable activities," Rawson says. "This really doesn't occur from any normally rewarding activity. That's one of the reasons why people, when they take methamphetamine, report having this euphoric [feeling] that's unlike anything they've ever experienced." Then, when the drug wears off, users experience profound depression and feel the need to keep taking the drug to avoid the crash.

it comes from here http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/meth/body/ quite a damning web page but not a bad read for any of us who may have convinced ourselves this stuff is good for you! EDIT: i take that back, the text here is skewed, it's a bit misleading if you don't know what's what. there are much better web pages explaining the dangers, wiki for starters. one thing that ALMOST amazes me, since doing this research, is how much propaganda the internet has about meth, and how many pure misconceptions are supported unquestioningly by some net users.

Isn't the term ice misused, as 99% of street MA is just d-MA not 4-Methylaminorex which is actually real ice.

 

thanks, never heard of that before. obviously crystal meth is what is referred to when australians mention ice.

ice is usually cut and it really makes it not worth smoking, for instance you can overheat it and because of the cutting agent it turns into some discoloured, unusable shit. unfortunately most people involved with this stuff are fiends and dare i say fuckheads, so every person between you and the cook is ripping you the fuck off, spoiling the product and treating people like shit. better to just eat the rubbish or if it's your thing, rail. however the real deal must be out there and i've come across perhaps one of the better ways to test it. buy a $99 infrared thermometer from dick smith, it measures heat from a distance at 8:1 so if the thermometer is 8cm from the object being measured, it is measuring an area 1cm across at least that's how i think it works. the packaging explains to what degree it is accurate. if the product begins turning liquid at 170-175 degrees (assuming the device is completely accurate) then you've probably hit the main vein. umm that wasn't meant to be a pun.

everything you read and everyone you talk to says that once you've injected then it's almost impossible to look back. i've got an open mind about these things but i just don't see the point. if you haven't injected already then don't, you just increase the chances greatly that it will ruin your life.

Edited July 26, 2010 by ThunderIdeal

[Chiral]

Injecting...fine if product is pure, best to stick to smoking...at least heat burns off some crap if there is any, just don't suck till the crap is gone.

Didn't used to see much cut in product and rocks where indeed solid and free of colour for the most part.

Listen to body cravings...if you feel like drinking cranberry juice, go get some, there are reasons for these cravings.

[ThunderIdeal]

lol that could be incredibly bad advice chiral

lol

(because on speed your body is usually telling you to take more speed)

but i suppose everyone is smarter than that. i have trouble knowing what my body wants, or if i do it's something i don't have handy.

Edited July 26, 2010 by ThunderIdeal

[kindness]

highly recommended product before, during and after - from what I have read here and other places magnesium plays a large role in keeping the good feelings going? or available to be tapping into? I dunno, I have a really hard time understanding neuroscience / chemistry. Just thought this might be worth posting.

I have been on this product for some time as recommended by a naturopath / gp and it acts a bit like a natural valium.

Worth it's weight in gold I reckon. It has the chelated form of magnesium which from memory is the one you would want, info follows:

Each Serving (5g) Contains:

Energy 55 kJ (13Cal)

Protein 2.1g

Carbohydrates - total 0.5g

-sugars <0.1g

Fat - total <0.1g

- saturated <0.1g

Dietary fibre 245mg

Glutamine 500mg

Taurine 500mg

Magnesium 280mg

Vitamin E

80mg

Potassium 55mg

Carnitine 51mg

Vitamin B6 50mg

Vitamin B1 25mg

Phosophorus 10.4mg

Nicotinamide 20mg

Calcium 14mg

Sodium 1.3mg

Folic acid 150µg

Molybdenum 60µg

Selenium 25µg

Vitamin B12 20µg

*Based on average amounts.

Ingredients

Magnesium amino acid chelate (as UltraMag®), malic acid, taurine, glutamine, inulin, potassium aspartate, dl-alpha-tocopherol acetate, natural flavour (orange flavour), levocarnitine tartrate, magnesium oxide, calcium hydrogen phosphate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, silica-colloidal anhydrous, thiamine hydrochloride, nicotinamide, stevia extract, selenium methionine complex, folic acid, sodium molybdate, cyanocobalamin.

[ThunderIdeal]

interesting. i'm not sure about some of those ingredients, if you're taking a few supplements many of those are covered apart from the ones towards the end eg pyridoxine hydrochloride, silica-colloidal anhydrous, thiamine hydrochloride, nicotinamide, selenium methionine complex, sodium molybdate,

these could be muscle salts or something i have no idea. chelated magnesium seems to be the main thing you need but this does look like a good product.

have been able to add melatonin to my arsenal! woohoo! will be going in for another run in coming weeks (spot the couple days of busy posting??)

thanks for posting here, i had some stuff to update the first post with, which i will do now if i can remember any of it.

edit: ahh yes, just going to add papaw ointment to the lips section because that stuff shits all over vaseline. also, plain old almond oil can be very good for dry lips. (i've discovered these the innocent way, working outdoors in winter)

Edited August 20, 2010 by ThunderIdeal