How do you meditate?

[hutch]

I have read a lot about the benefits of meditation but try as I might I am unable to master it. My mind just seems to busy. Whilst in the throws of not long back I sat in a dark room, alone and had a real good look inside my head. Big space up there and I must admit I was very pleased when I found that there was nobody else up there but me (I was looking). I was in there for two hours based on the clock but it really did only feel like minutes. I imagine this is what it feels like to meditate....I loved it and I want to do it again but with out the aid of any hard to come by drugs(because they are hard to come by). Someone and I can't remember who was going to send me a tape to listen to which would help but that never did eventuate. I am interested in hearing others stories on meditation, how you do/did it and what were the outcomes....

Thanks

Hutch

[Max Cady]

check out vipassana at dhamma.org helped me change a few things

[hutch]

check out vipassana at dhamma.org helped me change a few things

 

Thanks josho, I have had a look at that site previously but there is just no way I can take that amount of time away from home. Have you successfully meditated?

[ThunderIdeal]

meditation is achieved in degrees and most of us won't get the kind of experiences that life-long dedicated gurus can.

the fact that you've tried tells me that you are aware of some techniques. keep working at it. everybody has a busy mind, that's why everybody needs meditation.

[PhoenixSon]

check the web site there should be anapana instructions, a breath awareness concentration technique.

[wood]

There are a bunch of different methods so be prepared to read about a few and try them to see which ones you like. For me, it was really difficult to get into (tried the various Buddhist forms for a while) until I was introduced to several techniques by various people in my life which I then combined (I don't claim it to be original, I just don't have a name for it, maybe "Wild Sitting" ).

I like to sit somewhere in nature, a regular spot if I can manage it, and just extend my senses as far as they can go. I do hearing first because that's the easiest for me. So I listen and hear everything I can, but trying not to isolate any particular sound, just listening. Then I do sight, trying to override the narrow vision we use to focus on things and instead incorporate peripheral vision as well, again - seeing everything I can see without singling anything out. Smell and touch come next, and finally taste which is usually minimal. Then I try to put them together.

This works better for me than just breath awareness, for example, but I do incorporate it into my 'meditation' as well. I find that I can spend long periods of time in a tranquil, aware state, with very little effort. Of course, moments of conscious thought pop up, and so I have to not indulge them, not reject them, just watch them pass and go back in. Good luck

[Rabaelthazar]

Hey Hutch,

Meditation for me is hard as well. For one thing, just making the time is hard enough when there are so many other things I want to fit in to the day!!

I used to do formal meditation using Falun Dafa techniques, and that was a really positive period in my life. I can't say I ever reached the point of having no thoughts in my mind, but my thoughts would slow down from a constant stream to clear, separate thoughts with a few seconds break in between each one. I found that when I started meditating regularly, my character improved dramatically.

These days, I tend to sneak in a bastardized meditation whenever I can. I basically lay on the floor and let my thoughts slow down. Very relaxing until my wife comes in and asks me why the hell I'm lying on the floor when there are dirty dishes in the sink.

From a substance perspective (and I know you're mainly asking here about non-substance advice), I've found Argyreia to be the plant most aligned to the meditative state. Whereas LSD visuals always used to lead me toward mental breakthroughs and "the bigger picture", Argyreia visuals seem to lead me toward having absolute stillness in my mind. Anyone else relate to that comparison?

[Foton]

Its like exercise! 20 minutes a day... and dont slack... At times ive found this very hard.

My technique is sit down and shut up. Counting of the breath helps. count 10 exhilations, then repeat. Sometimes if your head is completely thinking flatout youll forget what number your up to... just return to the counting.

Ive also found an alarm helps. Just set it and forget. Let thoughts flow. Let thoughts be like clouds, as easy as they come... easy as they go...

[mauve]

I'm using the tek provided by an oldie (i think his nick name was "buddha" lol), it's very simple yet not so easy to achieve:

-shut up the voice in your head (i do this by relaxing my grip, it's like letting go instead of trying to do something)

-focus on this (you can choose): your breathing, the sound around you or in you, what you see, what you smell, what you feel (with the skin for example), etc

-smile (mysteriously). This one is very important in my opinion and always overlooked.

I don't remember having read that buddha ever said that you have to smile but it definitively propels the experience in a good direction...and after all it's on all the buddha statues hehe.

I think that you can experience the first stages of meditative states in two ways: a cold, detached one, you are just experiencing, you just ARE. Or you can do the same thing smiling, you just ARE but in the same time you are connected to everything and you feel so good...smiling becomes a result of your meditation not a step.

One important point in my practice is that i don't limit meditation to a special moment, place (for example when sitting in lotus). What i do is meditation in action: when walking, working, doing the laundry, listening to music, etc. In fact when you let go of the inner dialog and can just BE you experience life in a very large way.

You don't even need to attain long moments of inner silence to reach a point of paradise on Earth: i discovered that when you accumulate enough of those littles "inner silence moments" (even a phew seconds meditations sessions accumulated) you arrive to a state of mind that is at first like the experience of Kratom: stimulated, relaxed, blissful and very imaginative etc. The trick is just to remember to meditate and to keep at it, grasping some precious seconds of inner silence from time to time but regulary during the day.

When you dicover this it's awesome: everything is new again, you'll be trying everything like it's the first time (making love within this state is crazy !)...

Again, i'm sorry for my difficulties to explain this in a clear way, i just hope i doesn't look too "new-agey" lol

[ref1ect1ons]

When your starting letting-go of your mind is impossible, it is you after all. I recommend echart tolle and osho's book on meditation. These help you let-go.

I highly recommend the hemisync meditation music such as 'the shamans's heart' or 'between world's' these help put you in the right brain wave pattern and really help you get into the swing of things ...then you can do it without the music. They also have guided meditations and chakra meditations.

http://www.btmon.com/Other/Unsorted/THE_SHAMAN_S_HEART_with_Hemi_Sync_Byron_Metcalf_with_Steve_Roach_FLAC.torrent.html

<<<download this, shaman's heart.

Awesome point by Mauve, once you learn you'll find yourself pateintly meditating at the bus stop or when sitting in class etc. It brings peace to your daily life eventually. Chakras and breathing are good, because you just focus on a chakra or your breathing or breathing into a chakra and start that way.

Edited June 18, 2010 by ref1ect1ons

[paradox]

i haven't read this thread yet but i have to say that this is such a common issue, people seem to have some expectations of meditation & if they can't hold this deep one pointed attention for more than a few seconds they think they have failed & 'can't meditate'

the fact is, in the beginning meditation is simply about patiently bit by bit changing the habit patterns of your mind from a state where your attention is very uncontrolled & your mind is noisy to a state where you can actually choose freely your point of attention.. so in the beginning meditation is about slowly & patiently breaking habits.. everyone can't hold their attention for shit in the beginning, so if they can't hold their attention they believe they can't meditate which is completely missing the point. the point of meditation in the beginning is basically training your mind to hold a single point of focus & this is very difficult for your average person in the modern world, so in the beginning meditation isn't residing in a state of one pointed attention like a buddha, it's attempting to maintain one pointed focus, knowing full well it is very fucking hard, but each time you once again realize that your mind has drifted you simply bring it back & continue the process.... THAT is what meditation is! it takes patience but we just continue to bring our attention back when it wanders without judging anything, just accept that yes you have a noisy mind that is hard to keep focused & that is the whole reason you're doing the meditation in the first place so you just continue to bring the attention back when you realize it's gone & patiently continue... slowly but surly it becomes easier your attention will become more fine tuned & it gets easier & easier. i think modern peoples attention spans are way too short & people are so cynical about meditation in general..people are just fucking lazy, maybe their lifes r fucked & they feel so shit but they get the shits because they they tried meditation once & it didn't fix their problems.. it's such a pity because it just takes a bit of patience & persistence & you can start to see a lot of progress. & the effect it can have on your life if you actually take it half way serious can be very very positive indeed!

i would look into ana-pana (spelling) meditation, which is just the most fundemental form of using the sensation of the breath as a point of attention. it is the most fundemental & simple & probably most likely to be ideology free meditation technique & in my opinion is one of the most effective, certainly as a method of training the sharpening of ones awareness & therefore ability to meditate at a deeper level. just remember in the beginning it's a struggle but you just have to care enough to actually stick with it & it will slowly become mush easier, but if you're not willing to put in a real effort then that peoples own problem & perhaps when it gets to that point then they have no-one to blame for their issues but themselves? rant over, good luck hutch! if you're seriously interested the find a good simpleideology free technique & really give it an honest effort! of course i'm sure you have a hektic life, but imo you will not regret doing vipassana one bit, if you find it's compattible with you then the amount of positive ramifications in your life will far out way the 10 days lost. you might find they were the most well spent 10 days of your life.. though i can only speak from personal experience..

[botanika]

Everyday at work I meditate. Its an unintentional byproduct of boredom.

[lofty86]

I definetly find yoga a very usefull meditaition tool i cant just jump into such a calm train of thought without preparing myself physically and mentally limber up, do 10 or so sun salutes or another posture that streatches evry muscle in my body out sit in half lotus for a while straightening my spine tuning in with my favourite mantra (ong namo guru dev namo) LOL then lay flat on my back and recieve whatever comes (the less i try/anticipate the deeper i can go

i wish i was like you hutch evry time i do the dark retreat i encounter entities (mostley reflections of my subconcious but definetly seperate entities at times) theres an aboriginal man who watches over me the left side of his skull is caved in (although his not injured) his a little dumb looking his missing some toes, somtimes theres a young woman with him at his feet but shes not my guide she belongs to him its quite strange the first time i encountered this being on a dark retreat (alfoiled caravan widows and a chop bowl full of brug lol) i thought he was really physically there and freaked! as in some dark dude has broke into my caravan to kill me. were all cool now though

[mutant]

Pretty interesting replies. I have never tried to meditate. But I think I will eventually try to at some point of my life.

[Max Cady]

Thanks josho, I have had a look at that site previously but there is just no way I can take that amount of time away from home. Have you successfully meditated?

 

yeah but the plants have taken me further

[Max Cady]

yeah but the plants have taken me further

 

I used to have more success with meditation and dreaming as a child I was put in to a whole heap of meditation/dream courses run by the relaxation centre in brisbane these days unless it's a group guided meditation I find it hard to stay on track I got a few ideas why just gotta keep adapting.

[paradox]

another thing worth mentioning is that doing a course like vipassana gives you a very strong foundation, because you are so fully focused on it for the course a lot can happen & it can really help to ground you in a technique, then the whole process comes so much more naturally after that if you stick with it.. in the beginning meditation seems such a chore, but i think you've gotta realize, that all the mental commentary that comes in when you try to meditate telling you that you can't do it or it sucks or anything... i mean thats the whole fucking point! to sit & observe... & what comes up? some thought, some complaint, something negative about what you're even doing sitting there.. & thats it, thats your noisy fucking mind doing it's thing, that what you sat down to attempt to overcome & it beats you straight away & you give up. it's lame, but we're all guilty of it i guess..

so basically it's about keeping your focus for as long as possible & constantly bringing it back when it drifts, bit by bit emphasizing a habit of mind which is more focused & able to direct it's attention with a great deal more precision.. but whats the first thing that happens when we sit down & attempt that? our loose headed involuntary thoughts that are causing our pain & confusion in the first place come up & tell us that we can't do it or that we're fucking bored or whatever & just like the good little bitch ass slaves we are to our minds, we succumb to lazy blissful ignorance once again..

but now i'm repeatng myself

[ThunderIdeal]

yeah but it's an important point your making

i'm not sure how to add, i just want to reiterate that while thinking is sometimes important, most of the time it is STUPID.

it is FUCKING STUPID. if you actually look at your STUPID thoughts for a minute you will realise that this STUPID INNER VOICE never shuts its STUPID HOLE.

i dont think people realise this? or they don't realise the scope of it anyway. it just hums away unnecessarily, blocking out the moment with it's ceaseless, incessant, never-ending STUPID SHIT.

YOU DON'T NEED IT

YOU DON'T NEED TO THINK ALL THE TIME

[paradox]

YOU DON'T NEED TO THINK ALL THE TIME

 

well yeah, i think we just generally don't have a very efficient use of our minds cause really we don't have to.. to put it simply, it's an old topic but it's partly to do with our mechanized world where production has been amplified so profoundly because machines are working for us etc. in terms of survival our lifestyles have no need for refined faculties of mind besides the particular profession we are in, the interests we have & social skills, the rest of the equation is taken care of by our synchopated cities which run on clockwork. we fulfill our funtion in that city & we contribute to the whole running of it & thats survival taken care of...

i think it's an all to common phenomenon that people just do not realize what we human beings are capable of so we don't even realize how truly worthwhile some things are.. but then again the lure of instant material gratification is a tempting one & it's hard also because in general in western countries the concept of meditation is still very alien.. & cultural consensus can be a hard nut to crack

[paradox]

sorry for taking over this thread but also i feel very much that progress in meditation is exponential, it takes a while to get going but once you reach a certain threshold it gets so much easier & so incredibly enjoyable, healthy, invigorating & productive in just about every way..

but you can only do it if you have the real motivation to, & perhaps sometimes you need to give it a proper serious go before you can even realize why you should.. i mean it's not until you experience anything for real yourself that you can even know why it's actually something thats worth your time..

[OpticalLight]

I tend to enjoy machines guiding my meditation sessions.

I don't own one of these, MindSpa. But I've used this system before. There's quite a few different models and brands out there, and I recently used one which was quite effective with the lighting effects... can't recall the name of that brand though.

[Distracted]

How would you think if you didn't learn a language?

[hutch]

Its like exercise! 20 minutes a day... and dont slack... At times ive found this very hard.

My technique is sit down and shut up. Counting of the breath helps. count 10 exhilations, then repeat. Sometimes if your head is completely thinking flatout youll forget what number your up to... just return to the counting.

Ive also found an alarm helps. Just set it and forget. Let thoughts flow. Let thoughts be like clouds, as easy as they come... easy as they go...

 

Is the alarm to bring you out of a meditation session? Its hard but I do exercise every day...Most evenings I walk to the river which is about 8 klms...maybe I need to turn off my Ipod...thanks

I'm using the tek provided by an oldie (i think his nick name was "buddha" lol), it's very simple yet not so easy to achieve:

-shut up the voice in your head (i do this by relaxing my grip, it's like letting go instead of trying to do something)

-focus on this (you can choose): your breathing, the sound around you or in you, what you see, what you smell, what you feel (with the skin for example), etc

-smile (mysteriously). This one is very important in my opinion and always overlooked.

I don't remember having read that buddha ever said that you have to smile but it definitively propels the experience in a good direction...and after all it's on all the buddha statues hehe.

I think that you can experience the first stages of meditative states in two ways: a cold, detached one, you are just experiencing, you just ARE. Or you can do the same thing smiling, you just ARE but in the same time you are connected to everything and you feel so good...smiling becomes a result of your meditation not a step.

One important point in my practice is that i don't limit meditation to a special moment, place (for example when sitting in lotus). What i do is meditation in action: when walking, working, doing the laundry, listening to music, etc. In fact when you let go of the inner dialog and can just BE you experience life in a very large way.

You don't even need to attain long moments of inner silence to reach a point of paradise on Earth: i discovered that when you accumulate enough of those littles "inner silence moments" (even a phew seconds meditations sessions accumulated) you arrive to a state of mind that is at first like the experience of Kratom: stimulated, relaxed, blissful and very imaginative etc. The trick is just to remember to meditate and to keep at it, grasping some precious seconds of inner silence from time to time but regulary during the day.

When you dicover this it's awesome: everything is new again, you'll be trying everything like it's the first time (making love within this state is crazy !)...

Again, i'm sorry for my difficulties to explain this in a clear way, i just hope i doesn't look too "new-agey" lol

 

Good explanation mauve....you have reinforced my thought that meditation is an important something that is missing from my life. "everything is new again" wouldn't that be wonderful when you have just turned 50 lol..sounds like what I am looking for. thanks

I definetly find yoga a very usefull meditaition tool i cant just jump into such a calm train of thought without preparing myself physically and mentally limber up, do 10 or so sun salutes or another posture that streatches evry muscle in my body out sit in half lotus for a while straightening my spine tuning in with my favourite mantra (ong namo guru dev namo) LOL then lay flat on my back and recieve whatever comes (the less i try/anticipate the deeper i can go

i wish i was like you hutch evry time i do the dark retreat i encounter entities (mostley reflections of my subconcious but definetly seperate entities at times) theres an aboriginal man who watches over me the left side of his skull is caved in (although his not injured) his a little dumb looking his missing some toes, somtimes theres a young woman with him at his feet but shes not my guide she belongs to him its quite strange the first time i encountered this being on a dark retreat (alfoiled caravan widows and a chop bowl full of brug lol) i thought he was really physically there and freaked! as in some dark dude has broke into my caravan to kill me. were all cool now though

 

Sounds like a trip from hell....I wonder what the caved in skull signifies...When I was a boy I knew an old aboriginal gentleman who had the left side if his head caved in but the skin was unbroken...it just looked like part of his skull was missing....spooky...If I had of saw him I would have shit....

sorry for taking over this thread but also i feel very much that progress in meditation is exponential, it takes a while to get going but once you reach a certain threshold it gets so much easier & so incredibly enjoyable, healthy, invigorating & productive in just about every way..

but you can only do it if you have the real motivation to, & perhaps sometimes you need to give it a proper serious go before you can even realize why you should.. i mean it's not until you experience anything for real yourself that you can even know why it's actually something thats worth your time..

 

Some great info there paradox...I have little or no chance of taking a ten day retreat as I care for a very (very) ill wife and will be doing so for a fair while yet (I hope)...If I could go back to the experience I described at the start of this thread without the use of shrooms I just know I would be a much better person for it. Life is just so busy and stressful at present and meditation seems the better option over pharmaceuticals...

Thanks heaps

Hutch

[hutch]

yeah but it's an important point your making

i'm not sure how to add, i just want to reiterate that while thinking is sometimes important, most of the time it is STUPID.

it is FUCKING STUPID. if you actually look at your STUPID thoughts for a minute you will realise that this STUPID INNER VOICE never shuts its STUPID HOLE.

i dont think people realise this? or they don't realise the scope of it anyway. it just hums away unnecessarily, blocking out the moment with it's ceaseless, incessant, never-ending STUPID SHIT.

YOU DON'T NEED IT

YOU DON'T NEED TO THINK ALL THE TIME

 

I TEND TO AGREE BUT MY BLOODY BRAIN WONT SHUT THE FUCK UP.....and it is stupid thoughts that I am having most of the time...I wonder how much of an impact is when trying to quiet your head....

[hutch]

I tend to enjoy machines guiding my meditation sessions.

I don't own one of these, MindSpa. But I've used this system before. There's quite a few different models and brands out there, and I recently used one which was quite effective with the lighting effects... can't recall the name of that brand though.

 

Interesting....You would think the opposite and shut out all external stimuli....that sounds freaky when I think what it would be like not to hear see smell taste....I think I would like to try that...

Thanks

Edited June 18, 2010 by hutch