Help with acacia cultivation needed!!

[mutant]

thanks for the encouraging words and for the seeds mate!

half of these plants is you being generous and letting me have a go! I hope they form this thicket you describe, well, lots of thickets

Yep, I noticed just today that one acuminata seemed to do something different, getting bigger in a way and I thought, wow cool, they're doing something!! Went on the roof to take shots now but they have curled for night. Now that I see more photos I think she was doing the first pointy leaf! yoooohoooooooo!

some have had minor attacks [mealy, some caterpillar I luckily spotted some night munchin on them] but they seem to be going fine.

heck I hadn't even realised 'I got them going', therefore the encouragement is vital.

I was actually worried that it's too many of them and was really dubious for what to do, afraid of the future competition. You think it's OK to leave at this pots these numbers of seedlings? I will post an updated photo soon.

ferret:

all the advice given above is all good, trial out a few other methods on the obtusifolia if they aren't up yet. how have you pre-treated the seeds in that first run?

I did a combo of thinning the coat with a small, thin file and soaking in hot/ luke warm water...

Only one obtusifolia sprouted

I noticed I had no germination rates in some smaller pots, actually only obtusifolia sprouted [from those sown in smaller pots], so these pots might have dried up faster. I still don't know what to do with phlebo. 4 Phlebos seeds were individually in 4 pretty big pots, two had gravel on top, two hadn't the gravel. I am afraid they rotted. I think I am at 40-45 days....

I should be preparing a next attempt.

Maybe I leave the phlebos a bit more in the water, as someone I think suggested, to swell really well this time.

One last, important thing. Since they're becoming slowly less of babies, on which side of caution should I lean more, to the too wet, or the too dry? Remember they're up on the roof, and we got quite a hot summer here. I think they like generous watering.

Oh is the yellowing colour of the new shoots normal, or they migght me wanting even more water? Obtusifolia does this more. It's going slower but steady.

This is pretty exciting.

I have grown from seed some annuals/perennial low shrubs, the famous ethnovines, recently cacti, in my 3 years of zealously delving into general cultication, but I haven't started a tree, let alone a xerophytic plant.

I have had awful sucess with peganum seedlings, and with ephedra seedlings, haven't yet got khat to sprout.

but I am begining to understand that all seedlings, well the most of them, even xero, heck even cacti, really like it moist/wet at first...

cheers, peace, grow plants!

Edited June 29, 2010 by mutant

[planthelper]

Oh is the yellowing colour of the new shoots normal, or they migght me wanting even more water? Obtusifolia does this more. It's going slower but steady.

 

they are tricky to grow at times and your yellow leaves are already a warning sign.

i had many obtusifolias die on me after those symtoms appeared, i would keep them drier if i spot yellowing.

the roof might be aswell a far to extreem enviroment for them, and it would be impossible to keep the pots of your acacias just "a bit moist" as they would like it, specialy after yellowing occured.

[Mycot]

One last, important thing. Since they're becoming slowly less of babies, on which side of caution should I lean more, to the too wet, or the too dry? Remember they're up on the roof, and we got quite a hot summer here. I think they like generous watering.

Oh is the yellowing colour of the new shoots normal, or they migght me wanting even more water? Obtusifolia does this more. It's going slower but steady.

 

Agree with Planthelper. Better to lean towards dry, although one may put the bottom of the pots into a bed of moist sand for a gentle wicking action so it doesn't become overly dry and watering needs will be less frequent. When the plants are more established and hardier the sand bed can be dispensed with.

Edited July 1, 2010 by Mycot

[mutant]

the roof might be aswell a far to extreem enviroment for them

hmmm.... so would moving them to a less hot and less sunny place be advised, so that soil dries slower? Wouldn't leaving there ensure faster drying of the soil now that they're used to it?

[Mycot]

I believe I can see what you are getting at Mutant. I'd advise to give the plants milder conditions until hardier via use of shadecloth to create a small greenhouse. The shadecloth greenhouse cuts down direct strong light and also moisture loss through drying winds giving one greater environmental control.

[mutant]

I believe I can see what you are getting at Mutant. I'd advise to give the plants milder conditions until hardier via use of shadecloth to create a small greenhouse. The shadecloth greenhouse cuts down direct strong light and also moisture loss through drying winds giving one greater environmental control.

 

I will try to err on the dry side, maybe use a shade cloth, the seedling have been positioned to recieve direct morning sun, filtered noon/afternoon one so far, but in gereal it's quite hot and dry on the roof, especially at noon [12:00~17:00].

But I do have spots that are relatively bright[ no direct sun] but very shaded, that's where I put cacti before I acclimatise to full sun on the roof or where I put turbina and argyreia cuttings to root. All in all I have all kinds of spots on the roof for more or less shade/sun ratio, so the shade cloth might not be so necessary.

here's some photos

the obtusi's I think looks a bit better now than at this photo, but we will see

there are the neurophyllas. do you have any links? I don't find any infos, especially for ethno interest

and there're the acuminatas

Let me know what yoy think of my babies

should I kill someone for the sake of the rest [where too crowded] ??

Edited July 2, 2010 by mutant

[WoodDragon]

I don't think that you'd need to kill seedlings to save others - I've seen them go from being crowded to being thinned later with no great distress, depending on the timing of repotting.

One thing that might help you though is to ensure that you have the sort of symbiotic bacteria in your soil that acacias use to colonise their leguminous root nodules. On the seedlings that I've played with they look a bit like the nodules you'd see on a bean plant, although I wouldn't be surprised if the bacteria were completely different species. Seeing as you're in Europe I guess there's the possibility that the natural Australian symbionts aren't present, but I reckon that soil from any leguminous plant or tree would help to provide nyum nyums for the roots.

It'd be worth a shot at the stage that your babies are at. Just a teaspoon of soil from around the roots of a woody legume should do the trick.

[mutant]

hmmm

wood dragon you advice sound a bit exotic, but it sounds easy too.

Wouldn't there be a possibility to introduce some pest as well?

[planthelper]

the first few times i heard this, i found it strange aswell, but i tell you, it's super advice, which can decide if your plants will live or die.

for example i can tell you, that if you remove an acacia from the wild and take her home, she will never display those yellow leaves.

there would be many legumes growing in your area...

[mutant]

Alright, so I have to find some woody, perennial legume.

would Cersis sp , probably S. siliquastrum do??

how deep should I dig and how much 'wild' soil should I put to each pot?

Thanks for the tip. I don't mind doing [seemingly] crazy things for my plants, if it's for their best.

On a side note, an ex of mine once told me I never did such things for her, that is do some really crazy shit for her.

[planthelper]

i am not so knowlegable in this particualr field but,

i think your tree is no good as it's not from the legume family.

that bacterium (i think that's what it is) get's even sold fully packaged, if i remeber correctly.

i think nitrogen fixing trees are what you are after.

have you got cebil or mimosas growing?

ok did a search and paste from this url:

http://www.garden-soil.com/garden-soil-microorganisms-2.html

NITROGEN RELEASE BY NODULE BACTERIA

Baptisias, lupines, sweet peas, clovers, alfalfas, lespedezas and other legumes-plants belonging to the Leguminosae or pea family -produce nodules or tubercles on their roots when attacked by certain bacteria. These bacteria are able to fix free nitrogen from the air, or at least capture ammonia gas that might otherwise escape into the atmosphere. Originally called Rhizobium radickola, nowadays these are usually classed according to the plant they inoculate, such as R. trifoli for the bacteria that live on clover roots. For simplicity's sake, let's call them nodule bacteria.

The various nodule bacteria are quite specific and will not inoc­ulate all leguminous plants. One that inoculates garden beans will not invade the roots of peas. Lupines have a specific strain peculiar to them alone, and so on. To get around this the Nitragen Company, which probably sells 95 per cent of all the garden inoculants used in the United States, has developed a mixture of all the strains needed by various legume plants.

Some members of the Leguminosae do not harbor nodule bacteria (the redbud or Judas tree, Cercis canadensis, is one), but all lupines, baptisias and other herbaceous species within the family do.

[WoodDragon]

Have a read of some of these links.

I'm wondering now how cosmopolitan the various acacia bacterial symbionts might be... A commercial preparation might be your best bet, unless you can nudge someone from an area growing acacias, with a climate similar to yours, to sample the soil near some roots. I'd offer, but I currently have no acacias growing.

[WoodDragon]

I meant to add that it might seem like exotic advice, but many genera are highly dependent upon their microbiological symbionts, whether the bacteria fix nitrogen, or perform other biochemical services.

Pines are one example, and IIRC orchids are another. I suspect that many species of plant that have a reputation for being difficult to either strike or to germinate are simply showing what happens when their usual root symbionts are not present to colonise new roots.

Yes, there is a chance that you could introduce undesirable pests. It's all a balancing act. But in biological terms, it's not an exotic process, it's a restoration of a natural one.

It's a bit like humans really - 'bad' micro-organisms from poop can cause death (eg. cholera), but without a good inoculation of the beneficial gut bacteria that we all need, we fail to thrive. This is reflected in the fact that babies born by caesarian section suffer from many more immunological and biochemical complications than those born naturally - they don't receive a mouthful of mum's poop that babies always get when born vaginally.

Less well-known is that a similar thing happens with the bacteria than form biofilms on teeth. Different people have different bacterial variants, and some tooth biofilm communities are better at preventing the growth of the acid-secreting bacteria that cause cavities. The bacterial communities usually come from the mother (naturally), but if dad has particularly good teeth he should consider giving his newborn some decent tongue kisses before mum manages to contaminate bub's mouth - especially if mum has crap teeth herself! It seems that with mouth bacteria in babies, it's first in, best dressed.

[mutant]

have you got cebil or mimosas growing?

nope

but there are many acacias, albizias, mimosas and bean treas growing naturally or as ornamentals

But in biological terms, it's not an exotic process, it's a restoration of a natural one.

your absolutely right, I guess I used the word exotic meaning to say 'unusual' or 'weird' tek, more 'advanced' I would say.

I saw some mimisa pudica in a nursery the other day... would it worth it to get a couple and have a go? - meaning I could get soil from very near the roots...

Thanks for the links and detailed post!

Edited July 11, 2010 by mutant

[mutant]

the obtusifolia is not going well though.... more or less can't get the new leaflets growing / green ....

I will try the soil thing tonight probably

[WoodDragon]

Bumpitty, so that the thread is easier to find...

Edited November 21, 2010 by WoodDragon

[Magicdirt]

I'm planning on planting some Acacia and after reading a bit more they seem like they take some encouragement to get them to germinate.

Whenever I've had seeds that have a low germination rate or simply won't germinate at all I've used a little trick to get them germinate.

I plant the seeds as normal in a pot and bury the pot in one of my bathtub wormfarms then I sprinkle grass clippings over the top of the pot to attract the worms.

When the seeds pass through the worms gut they germinate much easier than they would in sterile potting media. Larger seeds that are too big for the worms to swallow still respond to this treatment so just being in contact with worms is enough. I don't know if it is a result of bacteria or digestive enzymes from the worms gut, but the germination rate is always much higher.

This has me wondering if the microbes needed for Acacia are crop specific or do you just need a good diverse population of microbes to grow healthy specimens.

Also whenever I get a plant that is sick or looks to be struggling I plant it pot and all in the wormfarm and let the worms work their magic, I even joke about it and call it a health farm for plants. The worms eat any dead root matter and the natural balance of microbes in a worm farm is bacterial so pathogenic fungal problems don't stand a chance.

I've saved everything from vegetables and herbs to fruit trees and ornamentals this way.

[mud]

Heya everyone,

SUCCESS (with Maidenii) equals

- up to (3) boiling water soaks and several weeks in water to germinate. (they look swollen, but can get much larger-try it and see) You wont kill em by soaking them more times- you'll actually only speed em up. Even if they're already swollen soak them again

THEN

- cover the sprouting seeds with some fine mesh to prevent the sprouts yumminess from attracting insects

AND

start em in spring, and don't baby them too much.

Learn em from the start where they're to live and how they're to grow.

BECAUSE

taking some previous advice from this thread lost me many valuable seeds so I've done most experimenting with local abundant Maidenii seed. I do believe that I failed attempts with other species for the same problems that are solved right here.

Edited November 22, 2010 by mud

[planthelper]

i think it aswell a good idea to save the hot water treatment water and use this to water the soil, like this the benefical bacteria which might live on the seed can be saved and used as innoculation.

drum sanding them, or hand sanding helps aswell to facilitate germination.

[mutant]

This is a good thread, especially in regards with getting seeds to sprout.

Most seedlings of mine are dead [ a couple acuminatas are still alive though]

reason was mites & mealy, I think anyway, and maybe a bit of neglect [they're supposed to like it]. I even sprayed once with an incecticide, which I very seldom do. Maybe next time I will mix the soil with some soil where acacias are growing in advance.

Next season I plan to sow in time and not late in the season. Which do you regard the best time to swell and sow them? Say, february, march or april?

anyways

its getting colder now... should I really leave them [the remaining seedlings] to get watered by rain?

What should I do with my bigger [3 y.o. or so, was not in the best condition when I got it and was repotted at the end of August] maidenii I was given? Should I leave at the roof to get the most cold and the most rain during winter time?

Or, say, should I put under cover to protect at least from most rain and/or to try to protect from the winter colds [mind you, winter colds here are usually mild and rarely flirt with below 0 ~ 5 C

[ENtiTY]

Get the seedlings out of the rain. They won't like being cold and wet.

RE your older one... depends upon how much rain and how warm your days get during winter. If it were me I would play it safe and move it out of rainfall and manually water at a reduced rate to see how the plant responds. The plant should be slowing down so transpiration will be reducing. Let the soil dry off a bit and take note how long it takes to do so. Thats your base time frame, you should be able to work out a watering schedule from that. The cooler it get the less water it will need. Observation is the solution

[mutant]

thanks mate for fast reply

that's what happens when one [me] from wild mushroom picker, starts of as a newbie , totally clueless about plants, from growing argyreia and other plants from seed and then on the 3rd year moves to cacti passionately - then forgets how plants where cultivated! they evolve faster and need closer observation.

I shouldn't have left/neglected the seedlings so much, especially with the wet automn we have had so far. Its strange they made it.

As far as the big one [maindenii]is concerned, it's is forming new leaves [reddish at the tip] - the plant was starving with many yellowish leaves when I got it. It was 12 C last night. I leave at hte roof tonight, then I put under shelter [also considerable less light] tommorow.

I don't suppose they will suffer much under less dense light in winter...

[mutant]

the acuminatas didn't make it after all

but the mature maidenii I was given looks happy

repeating the same germinating process with next batch of seeds

wish me better luck this time.

[planthelper]

repeating the same germinating process with next batch of seeds

wish me better luck this time.

 

i think you will have much more success next time around, acacia seedlings are quite sensitive and tempramental,

one just has to make all those experiences, to be able "to be in touch" with the plant.

even as a passionate gardener, i find it quite a challenge, to work with plants or seedlings for the first time.

with acacia's it seems, this learning curve, makes a big difference, in short,

i lost most of my acacia seedling's with my first attempts, but now, i fair much better.

i would not be surprised if, some percentage of seedlings would naturaly turn out to be, more fragil and slower growing, but some others seem to grow realy well.

anyway, in other words, i guess acacia seeds are not stable and can produce enourmous variations.

sometimes my new batch of acacia seedlings even outgrew, the two months earlier batch,

anyway good luck, i'm sure you will do well!

[mutant]

sometimes my new batch of acacia seedlings even outgrew, the two months earlier batch,

!!!!!!

very interesting and thank you for the encouraging words. I do believe some acuminatas would make it if I took them off the rain much earlier and let them grow in controlled water intake under cover.

I am more into 'sowing frenzy' this year and I am doing my sowing from early on to avoid having to hangle sensitive baby seedlings in the hot days of summer.

Edited February 15, 2011 by mutant