General Khat Advice

[Illustro]

Hey,

I noticed that this forum has many seasoned gardeners growing khat, so i was just wondering if you could please help me on a few questions with your wisdom.

How many hours of direct sunlight do you find you plant prefers?

What average day time temperature range do you recommend?

Cheers

[ratwick]

Hey,

I noticed that this forum has many seasoned gardeners growing khat, so i was just wondering if you could please help me on a few questions with your wisdom.

How many hours of direct sunlight do you find you plant prefers?

What average day time temperature range do you recommend?

Cheers

I have heard that full sun for these plants. Also, make sure you either plant in the ground or bury your pots as i have heard they need to have cool roots.

Edited September 13, 2009 by ratwick

[Illustro]

I have heard that full sun for these plants. Also, make sure you either plant in the ground or bury your pots as i have heard they need to have cool roots.

Sweet, cheers man. I am currently tossing up whether i should leave it inside or put it in my greenhouse. It is extremely hot in there, so i may have to try your cool root technique and dig a hole in the floor.

Any more advice would be greatly appreciated :D

[santiago]

the plants i have seen that have 1/4 to 1/3 shade seem to do better than those exposed to full sunlight, im not really a great gardener but thats just my observations.

[indigo264nm]

They are hardy as all fuck but def need to be in the ground.

Mine up at parents house gets direct sunlight for probably 6-8 hours a day in summer in the ground and house faces east) I'd imagine more sunlight now since the people over the west side of fence have removed all the massive eucaplypts

Both my red leaf and narrow leaf variety are well taller than me, reckon 7ft for narrow leaf - red leaf maybe 4 years old, narrow 3 years.

I did nothing special, maybe put some sugar cane mulch around it when prep'ing the patch when planting ground - but I have kickass 500cm+ topsoil of fine sandy loam.

They are also in a coastal area (7mins walk), but since up on a hill they don't get any frosts in winter unlike a friend who lives 10 mins drive but is in a valley.

Besides from that typical Sydney temperature ranges so it close to zero in winter and above 40 in summer, but with more coastal storms etc in summer.

[hutch]

I have heard that full sun for these plants. Also, make sure you either plant in the ground or bury your pots as i have heard they need to have cool roots.

I have been trying to get some seed to germinate in pots in a shade house with no luck. Maybe it's what you said

[incognito]

How many hours of direct sunlight do you find you plant prefers?

What average day time temperature range do you recommend?

full sun and the hotter the better

[indigo264nm]

I have been trying to get some seed to germinate in pots in a shade house with no luck. Maybe it's what you said

Most types of seeds do not need sunlight to germinate... Papaver sp. is an example of one that does, but Catha edulis don't. A seed has everything it needs inside it until it develops its first true leaves - which are not the first leaves that come after germination.

It's probably the fact you're trying to germinate them into pots and with the wrong type of soil medium, so I'll give you a method of how to germinate most things with high success rates... this is basically the method used commercially.

---

Get a seed tray. Make a mix of 4 parts propagation sand, 1 part perlite and 5 parts peat moss (make sure you break up any clumps and that it's fully moistened before mixing in because dry peat defeats the purpose).

Put that into the tray and tamp it down level and evenly so there is about 5mm of room left.

Scatter seeds evenly along surface.

Cover surface completely with a layer of a fine grade vermiculite to fill the 5mm of space left.

Water with a fine rose on your can on a level surface where it can still drain evenly out the bottle such as a rack (I used to just use a patch of scoria in my yard) and keep watering even if it is overflowing for a bit. Then let it drain and settle before moving.

Keep in a warm place outside of direct sunlight and make sure you mist it regularly so it doesn't dry out. A lil bit of humidity might help and won't hurt, but too much will cause it to rot out.

.........you can apply the same method using 2 inch tubes, or punnet trays, with individual seeds instead of a seed tray quite successfully as well.

[incognito]

no seeds need sunlight to germinate. (i have a feeling im gonna be corrected)

moisture and warmth(or cold).

[bean me]

from my experience they do very poor in loamy and wet soil. i took it back to a pot!

but in dusty soil under trees them do better than in full sun.

im in tropical climate. i wonder if i should cover them in the rainyseason ?

[santiago]

on the topic of general khat advice in regards to consumption the sublingual quid method can be a bit hard to swallow at times (pardon the pun), of course its the traditional method so as long as you dont mind feeling like a koala keep it simple.

even though the boiling of leaf to make tea is a very palatable option and can and does work it perhaps may be an unreliable consistant method as certain info points to the degridation of the alkaloids with heat, in my experience i have had mindblowing teas but also been let down.

extraction seems to out of the reach for most average psychonauts, some info lately just on this forum says if you can get it to a acid salt form (sorry thats all i remember) its possible to retain cathinone which is what you want otherwise other extraction methods leave only cathine or similar.

there was a bit of banter as to khat wine which by experimentation turned out to be a tremendous hoax although it did produce threshold results but totally not worth it.

i have read it can be smoked but cathinone generally degrades within 24 hours, so in theory you would have to smoke a wet leaf which does not sound nice, however possible.

my father who is quite conservative once convinced he should grow some, uses it maybe once a year in times of lethargy he simply just mashes the leaves with water and drinks the green liquid, he says its tops. thought of refining the method ie water and khat leaves in a blender, strain the liquid pulp through a thin tshirt or coffee filter, chuck in some lemonade, or maybe some vodka to be adventurous and consume. its so simple and quick surely it would work, of course somebody i know may soon become test pilot and do this, or is this something already well known within the forum, or even better has anybody done this and have feedback?

[indigo264nm]

no seeds need sunlight to germinate. (i have a feeling im gonna be corrected)

moisture and warmth(or cold).

Hehehe not corrected exactly... but have you ever tried germinating poppies in the dark or got good germination rates by putting soil over after scattering seeds??? Everybody tells you to scatter them on top of soil so they can get sunlight for a reason.

There is plenty of research out there on phytochrome pigments, wavelengths of light, and the effect on germination in certain types of seeds.

So yeah - no seeds need sunlight to germinate, but SOME do need exposure to certain wavelengths of light to initiate germination and sunlight is the most convienient.

Edited September 18, 2009 by -=IndigoSunrise=-

[Illustro]

Wow, thanks for all the info.

I used to have it in my greenhouse as it gets alot of light there. But i think it may have been too hot for its roots, as you guys have mentioned - it dropped lots of leaves and didnt look too happy(i was very careful with watering).

So i am considering either burying the pot in my greenhouse or planting it out. I want to plant it out, just i am unsure if that would be wise as i live in the sub-tropics, i get plenty of sun here but we get a few weeks of frosts during winter. It gets down to about -3'C rarely, but -1'C is about average for frosts.

Will this be a problem?

Cheers

Edited September 18, 2009 by solvo.vestri

[indigo264nm]

Wow, thanks for all the info.

I used to have it in my greenhouse as it gets alot of light there. But i think it may have been too hot for its roots, as you guys have mentioned - it dropped lots of leaves and didnt look too happy(i was very careful with watering).

So i am considering either burying the pot in my greenhouse or planting it out. I want to plant it out, just i am unsure if that would be wise as i live in the sub-tropics, i get plenty of sun here but we get a few weeks of frosts during winter. It gets down to about -3'C rarely, but -1'C is about average for frosts.

Will this be a problem?

Cheers

Plant it out. I was a fool with my first one of keeping it in a pot - it barely did anything. Put it in the ground and it boomed... so put my next one in the ground at maybe 25cm high and it became a 6ft tree in 3 years.

They've got waxy leaves which is a generally an indication that they're tough plants and adapted to harsh environments so you'd never need a greenhouse - too humid.

It'll be perfectly fine in the ground over winter - it handles probably lows down to 2 deg at minimum at mine and still grows through winter. If you want to be extra careful and protect the roots from frost in winter, put down a good thick layer of woodchip mulch with maybe couple sheets of newspaper underneath. Be sure to leave a bare patch around at base of about 15cm.

Not only will it look nice but it'll keep the roots safe from frost.

[Illustro]

Well, looks like im gonna plant it out :D

I did some research, and it looks like i get what is considered the optimal amount of rainfall for khat and i am in within the temperature limits. I just hope i dont get too much frost or heavy rains for a few winters to come while it gets established.

I have heard of people who grow them outside in my state, im just so paranoid about killing the lil fella :s

Thanks!!

Edited September 18, 2009 by solvo.vestri

[indigo264nm]

Your lil fella will be fine... rain is no issue as long as your soil is prone to water logging. Just mulch in winter as a precaution even though it probably won't be necessary. They are very hardy - I guarantee it'll boom over this spring and summer and will be established enough for winter.

Is it a broad red or narrow leaf??? Doesn't really make much difference but the narrow leaf seems to grow a bit quicker as is more tree like.

[Illustro]

Its broad leaf, which is great . I would love the narrow leaf variety, i have a friend willing to send me cuttings from his mother plant in south america - but i know from importing other plants that it will never make it past customs.

So im more than happy with what i got, i figure theres no point risking it all for the sake of greed.

I might go about making a raised garden for it, not too big. Just something to get the main root bed established in case i do get a period of heavy rain. There goes my paranoia again haha.

Lol, this thread has turned out completely different to what i expected. I would have never even played with the idea of planting it outside before i started this thread.

Thank you so much for the sound advice! :D