Torsten Posted May 30, 2009 Being someone who can't put cultural traditions before animal welfare this news item made me smile today.... Matador gored in Madrid bullring Posted Fri May 29, 2009 12:33pm AEST Spanish matador Israel Lancho is gored by a bull in Madrid on May 27, 2009 Thousands of spectators watched in horror as a matador was gored during a bullfight in Madrid. Israel Lancho was rushed to hospital after he was attacked by the enraged animal at the Spanish capital's Las Ventas bullring. Media reports say Lancho underwent emergency surgery on a 25 centimetre-deep stomach wound and that he is now in a serious condition. The bullfight was held as part of Madrid's annual San Isidro festival, honouring the city's patron saint. http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/05/29/2584449.htm Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr b.caapi Posted May 30, 2009 HaHa !!! Yep. i always love seeing those pompous little shits get gored !! Revenge at its finest. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
watertrade Posted May 30, 2009 hear, hear! http://animal-lib.org.au/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Conan Troutman Posted May 30, 2009 DANG...thats gotta be the worst way to take the bull by the horns! guess the bull doesn't always lose Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kenny Posted May 30, 2009 yipes! What are those things dangling off the bulls back? Kinda looks like they were shooting fluffy spears at it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Conan Troutman Posted May 30, 2009 yipes!What are those things dangling off the bulls back? Kinda looks like they were shooting fluffy spears at it. LOL..fluffy spears Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mac Posted May 30, 2009 (edited) sorta reminds me of the pic of the matador taking a horn fair up the freckle frekle shot thats what i cal a bulls eye or close enough FREKLE BALLS Or GOOCH You Choose Fuck That For A Living Edited May 30, 2009 by mac Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chiral Posted May 30, 2009 It's 2009 and still people are holding barbaric bullfighting rituals for the amusement and pleasure of thousands of morons in the crowd....the bull may get his horns into the "wankador" sometimes but in the end the bull always dies after the fight. H. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Conan Troutman Posted May 31, 2009 (edited) It's 2009 and still people are holding barbaric bullfighting rituals for the amusement and pleasure of thousands of morons in the crowd....the bull may get his horns into the "wankador" sometimes but in the end the bull always dies after the fight.H. that may be true in most cases but occasionally if the bull has fought bravely he may be spared and return to the farm from whence it came. As with Murcielago, whom Lamborghini named a car for. Edited May 31, 2009 by Conan Troutman Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Siggor Posted May 31, 2009 i don't really see anything wrong with it, you go to another country, you could see spearing of the jugular vein of a cow/bull and see people drinking its blood, until it dies, and various other rituals involving animals deaths, its all apart of culture, wether we like it or not, even then the western world does even more terrible things to our animals. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted May 31, 2009 spudamore. you are completely right that factory farming is no better than bull fighting, which is why we need to be careful about hypocrisy. However, just because they are both wrong doesn't mean we should ignore them. Mind you, spearing of the jugular is not painful and the animal barely suffers. It just gets drowsy from low bloodpressure and then dies quite quickly beyond a certain point. In fact, you can spear the jugular, take a little blood and then stop and the animal will be just fine. Not much different to giving blood really. It's things like caged bears, live skinning of fur animals, smashing joeys against trees and leaving them half dead, or keeping pigs/chooks in tiny cages which are all just so wrong. The problem with bullfighting is that it actually celebrates this callousness. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Siggor Posted May 31, 2009 Mind you, spearing of the jugular is not painful and the animal barely suffers. It just gets drowsy from low bloodpressure and then dies quite quickly beyond a certain point. In fact, you can spear the jugular, take a little blood and then stop and the animal will be just fine. Not much different to giving blood really. It's things like caged bears, live skinning of fur animals, smashing joeys against trees and leaving them half dead, or keeping pigs/chooks in tiny cages which are all just so wrong. The problem with bullfighting is that it actually celebrates this callousness. the thing is how do we know its not painful? or what they are experiencing is not suffering? i am pretty sure the farmers celebrate and those people that hurt animals get some satisfaction out of it.. its just that the spainish are not afraid to have it out in the open. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Siggor Posted May 31, 2009 (edited) double posted Edited May 31, 2009 by spudamore Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted May 31, 2009 the thing is how do we know its not painful? or what they are experiencing is not suffering? Firstly we know that tapping the jugular doesn't hurt much when done to humans and it is also the standard place for Vets to take large blood samples [generally without restrainign the animal much. Thing about animals is that when you hurt them they usually react. Thing about hurting large animals is that when they react they usually hurt you [unless they are restrained]. So, when you see a cow standing there getting its jugular poked and it just stands there while half a litre of blood pours out, you can be pretty sure it didn't feel much. Measuring stress in animals is pretty easy and measuring pain is even easier, so your suggestion is a bit pointless. i am pretty sure the farmers celebrate and those people that hurt animals get some satisfaction out of it.. its just that the spainish are not afraid to have it out in the open. There is a difference between celebrating the necessary production of food [with the minimum of sufferign to the animal], and actually enjoying the drawn out infliction of pain on the animal while watching its slow demise. I feel guilty everytime I buy meat from the supermarket and I try to buy as ethical as I can. I know that meat was produced in many instances with a large amount of suffering to the animal. I feel no guilt at all when I personally cause an animal's quick death after it had a happy life. The whole concept that a person might enjoy to watch a cow run around the paddock with a knife stuck in it's back causing it to bleed to death is no different to enjoying a bull fight. Spudamore, I am curious, where would you draw the line between a bullfight and peanut. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tyler83durden Posted May 31, 2009 You get what you deserve. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Siggor Posted May 31, 2009 then i suppose you wouldn't mind me slicing your jugular? LOL the point i am trying to make its apart of a culture, wether we think its right or not, if we take that away from them, thats one less bit of culture, not saying its right. if we do something like that, would that be saying its alright to go around converting tribes to western living, taking their rituals away, just because as a society we don't think its "normal" its culture that has brought about this website, plants and knowledge that has been shared, if that culture was taken away we wouldn't be able to experience what we do. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chiral Posted May 31, 2009 I hate it when people say WE are just as bad... the way WE treat our cattle and poultry etc...so as not to sound hypocritical...it's the WE bit I object to... as I don't condone the cruelty.... and I am certainly not doing it, so why am I lumped in with WE....?...the abattoir workers are the culprits and are the scum not "me or we"...lets get that straight. H. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Siggor Posted May 31, 2009 ok majority then support the industry which allows it to continue. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted May 31, 2009 then i suppose you wouldn't mind me slicing your jugular? LOL well, to be honest, if it was needed to sustain someone then why not? anyway, I am not saying that the animals 'don't mind'. I am sure they do. The probably even mind that we make fences etc. But they can have a pretty happy low stress life if we try hard enough. the point i am trying to make its apart of a culture, wether we think its right or not, if we take that away from them, thats one less bit of culture, not saying its right. if we do something like that, would that be saying its alright to go around converting tribes to western living, taking their rituals away, just because as a society we don't think its "normal" its culture that has brought about this website, plants and knowledge that has been shared, if that culture was taken away we wouldn't be able to experience what we do. I know it's difficult to draw a line, but can you really just let everyone do as their please because it is their culture? eg, is it OK for adult men to have sex with 10 year old girls even though we NOW know it causes terrible physical problems for the growing woman? is it OK to cut the clitoris of women just because the men decide that this is right in a society where women have next to no rights? is it Ok for men to beat their wives as they wish? is it OK to stone people to death? is it OK to beat the crap out of dogs for an hour before killing them just so the meat tastes better? is it OK to skin an animal alive just because that's how it's always been done in that part of the world? I think all of us have different levels of what we can accept in another culture. And to be honest if some tribe needs to torture an animal in a ritual so that they can maintain their social identity and cohesion then I can accept that there MAY be a need for it. Bullfighting in spain however is just business now and has little to do with cultural identity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted May 31, 2009 I hate it when people say WE are just as bad... the way WE treat our cattle and poultry etc...so as not to sound hypocritical...it's the WE bit I object to... as I don't condone the cruelty.... and I am certainly not doing it, so why am I lumped in with WE....?...the abattoir workers are the culprits and are the scum not "me or we"...lets get that straight. so, when you buy meat, do you buy ethical meat at double the price or do you buy the cheap supermarket meat that you KNOW is the result of cruelty? If you turn a blind eye to the way your food is produced then you are complicit in it's ethical responsibility. If we all don't buy unethical meat then the cruel producers and abbatoirs would not exist. It's a simple supply and demand equation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rogdog Posted May 31, 2009 (edited) Natural justice is a beautiful thing! Nice article and pic, T Except it sux that the bull was there in the first place? I have seen a French village, where they just take some bells of a bulls horns. That seems a more sporting game to me. Edited May 31, 2009 by rogdog Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ThunderIdeal Posted May 31, 2009 torsten i admire how you usually put your point across so clearly. if only more sensible, compassionate and articulate people like you had the ears of more influential people i think we'd be on the path to a benevolent society. i have a hard enough time accepting the torture of small animals in tribal rituals in the name of culture (even in cultures where members inflict extreme pain upon themselves), but many things i cannot accept, in the name of anything. genital mutilation is one and without wishing to argue with anyone, i see no difference between slicing off an infant boy's foreskin or removing an infant girl's clitoris except that foreskin removal is mutilation of a much lesser scale, practically equivalent to removal of the clitoral hood. it must surely be very painful and i hate how it is still widely accepted for bullshit reasons by people who would probably rave about the horrors of female circumcision. i desire that humans stop these barbarous practices so we can all move forward, and if spaniards want to be big men they can enter the ring with another fucking man. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chiral Posted May 31, 2009 so, when you buy meat, do you buy ethical meat at double the price or do you buy the cheap supermarket meat that you KNOW is the result of cruelty? If you turn a blind eye to the way your food is produced then you are complicit in it's ethical responsibility. If we all don't buy unethical meat then the cruel producers and abbatoirs would not exist. It's a simple supply and demand equation. Well to tell the truth most of the meat that my wife and her close friend buy comes from a halal butcher...I tend not to eat much if any of the meat theycook to tell the truth and have revered to eating a lot of tinned fishes and rice dishes and love things like banana's and avocado's etc...BUT..I am a hypocrite actually because i do eat at places burger king and Mcdonalds... H Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Teotzlcoatl Posted May 31, 2009 Kinda wish the bull would have killed him... it's not like they haven't killed 100s of bulls! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Smiling Cloud Posted May 31, 2009 i am pretty sure the farmers celebrate and those people that hurt animals get some satisfaction out of it.. its just that the spainish are not afraid to have it out in the open. I grew up on a farm in a 'beef' community and the above is a common myth that farmers 'like' killing. Farmers generally have to do a lot of killing for pest control and usually butcher their own meat because its cheaper but it is never "liked". When i was young i was taught that whenever killing an animal to have deep respect and remorse at having to kill it, most of the other kids on farms were taught that too. And i would get in alot of trouble if i ever shot a non-pest (to the crops, we grew wheat, sorghum, lucerne and barley as well) and didn't eat it. And if i shot a pest and it didn't die the first shot.... well then i would be in deep deep shit. To cause an animal any more pain than was necessary was a sin, as it should be. If you can't knock something off the first shot then wait till you can. Fortunately both my brother and i can shoot through a hole in a star picket from about 100m away, have been able to do that since i was 8. Actually i probably can't now, haven't shot a gun for years. On our farm we had mostly rabbits which was lucky as we used to eat them. On the few occaisons where we would come across roos we would usually feed them to the dogs. I;m not saying this eating of them makes it ethical but the meat is a good by-product of pest control. If farmers didn't kill these pests then what you eat tonight and more importantly how much would you pay for it? Even if you are vegetarian there is a lot of death that goes into your food. Fields of crops need to be protected and this means death. If the end consumer doesn't want to pay more than $1.99 for tomatos then farmers need to go out and protect their crops. Simple. And if you had to go out night after night to shoot rabbits/pigs/roos/bats/whatever i reckon that you would find quite quickly that you don't like killing. Sorry for the ramble but farmers get a pretty tough time. "Farmers raping the soil, farmers raping the water systems." I;m not saying farmers aren't doing that but environmental degradation through agriculture is all of our responsibility, not just farmers. If we didn't eat it, they wouldn't grow it. ramble over Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
