Photos of germinating seeds

[kadakuda]

Some pictures of Lophophra seeds germinating. just thought it was neat how they cracked open. sorry the pics are not too clear, they were free hand and i shake a lot

Trichocereus peruvianus showing severe dehydration (oops)

Edited November 24, 2008 by kadakuda

[paradox]

 

cool pics man i like em

[Yawning Man]

Interesting how they have the reddish tinge to them. Does that indicate anything? Very cute anyhow, nice pics man.

cheers

[ballzac]

Interesting how they have the reddish tinge to them. Does that indicate anything?

Usually excessive light. Although it's difficult to prevent them from doing this while still trying to get them to grow fast. If they're surviving then all is good, but colour can be an indication that you need to move them to a shadier position.

[kadakuda]

normally i say sunburn too...but these are hybrids, and one was also pink, so i am thinking some are variegated. time will tell.

i had a really nice bright pink one, but due to my alcoholic nature when doing anything with my plants, i dropped it while grafting

[Yawning Man]

ahh yes. My impression is that L. williamsii are pretty tempremental. How do seedlings cope with a lot of sun?

Haha Kadakuda, i would have thought the sheer joy of gardening would be intoxicating enough

cheers

Edit: Sorry to hear about your loss

Edited November 30, 2008 by peaceful_son

[kadakuda]

it is, but the damn gnome has a drinking problem. i tell him to stop, but you know how well gnomes listen!

we shal fins out soon enough it they are variegated or not. i must say, this batch of seeds (being hybrids) have really shitty germ rates! not like same specie or even same genera crosses go...so far 4/50

[Inyan]

Spill the beans. What's the cross on this one? Lophophora x Trichocereus? C'mon, serious minds want to know.

[kadakuda]

until it grows and appears that it is a hybrid, my mouth is sealed actually its really weak, not sure if it will make it. still have 20 seeds i have not sown, and the other 29 seeds i did sow all died

[Inyan]

Kaduka,

Just think, one of these hybrid seedlings of yours might turn out to be what is known as a bridge plant. A plant capable of hybridizing with another species that neither parent by itself could hybridize with using ordinary means. Yeah, your doing some great work. Don't give up. Graft those little struggling seedlings!

[Yawning Man]

and the other 29 seeds i did sow all died

Sorry to hear that kada! How do you know they died? Just never came up? I've got a few seeds that still haven't germinated, put them in say a month or more ago,any chance they'll still strike? And one more question, do loph seedlings love lots of water? Coz of all my loph seeds that germinated the soil was always quite moist.

cheers

[kadakuda]

ya it sucks, but it happens. they germed, they just did not break the seed coat (weak). you can see in the above pics they were starting to pop, but that is as far as they made it 2 did ok, i was a dumb ass and dropped one while grafting, and the other one that seemed to take ok got cooked on the pereskiopsis....hows that for a a "what not to do guide" LOL. still ahve 20 seeds though, so these i will give full attention to. i also have another fruit developing from the same cross, but its on week 9 of development!!!!!!! WOW!

Inyan

yes that would be cool! call me superstitious but i try not to count my eggs before they hatch! every time i do, bad things happen...jsut liek these. i remember i had some awesome storr's monitor eggs (you ozzies know them!), they were on month 3 of incubation and looking so good (not easy to incubate usually), so i told my buddy that i would probably have some babies for him, and VOILA dead babies in the eggs

i dont believe in any kind of supreme being, but i really think there is something to this Murphy character!

[Inyan]

You've peaked my interest now. And as far as I can tell Murphy is on our side most of the time so she won't mind you spilling the beans. Seeds that have a hard time germinating or finishing developing or pods that take an abnormally long time to develop have also been known to occur with especially hard crosses. You might want to try an inverted wedge technique and hope for the best. Perhaps create an added humidity dome to the whole enterprise and call me when the graft is a sure fire thing. If in doubt, you could always send the seeds to me for safe keeping you know?

[kadakuda]

hehe. i just finished a grow cabinet for cuttings/seeds that takes up half the wall in the living room. i got them in there now with lights and heat and happy times

ironically, after reading this thread again i figured it was time to check them and give another mist. 2 more are sprouting good stuff. generally i wait 4 months before chucking seeds, so will see how it goes.

seeds will get spread around eventually, but i gotta get myself a few plants first. some people around here have some of the loph hybrid i did a while ago in time.

now i just gotta go finish my outdoor seedling building and we will be set (ideal for acclimating grafts ) but gotta do that work thing, so time is not always as plentiful as one would like

[Inyan]

Kada,

If this one is giving you problems like this I think the best bet for all of us is to let you do your thing. In this manner, if one survives and grows to maturity we can rest assured that future generations/crosses will be made and propagations made. All to often a hybridizer lets go of a valuable seed and a beautiful seedling emerges, but no report is made. How do I know this? I've done the math and grown out many crosses myself. If you know a bit about the genetics of the species you are working with then you know which cross is a long shot and which cross is going to land you some winners with relatively low numbers. Long shot crosses if done are generally done in large enough numbers to ensure one or two good ones or else they are traded out in the hopes that some lucky guy or gal will share his/her results. When in doubt, make a cross yourself. If you want to get the best seed or best hybrid... it goes without saying that you need to make some crosses yourself. Otherwise your going to be waiting until the next hybrid is released instead of simply working on your own thing. I know many don't like a lot of attention and just sit back and listen to the experts. Making their crosses and thankful that the experts are sharing their knowledge. Simply having something in their own private collection that is different is enough for those guys and gals. I tend to ramble a bit, but I keep coming back to this post of yours as I can see some real work is going on here. I'm like a sponge when it comes to hybridizing. I love it and soak in it. I like to instigate others in the hopes of getting them involved in the same. Its a beautiful thing seeing your own seedlings flower for the first time. Those are your creations and whether you choose to share them with others or keep them to yourself there is a nice feeling that comes from having been there through the entire process... start to finish. Keep up the good work!

[kadakuda]

motivation and discussion are great we all need someone to light the fire under our asses. there is an ethnobotany section here as well, should you decide to discuss your other plants you crossed

[Inyan]

Okay, its been a month since you posted these seedling pictures. Any picture updates for us? I realize they grow slow, but once a month couldn't hurt. Heck, it would probably be enlightening to some of us to see how slow or fast they can be pushed with a month by month photo gallery. Eagerly awaiting minds want to see more. Patience is a virtue, but time lapse photography is nice too you know?

[Garbage]

Those hatchlings are too slow for time lapse.

[Inyan]

Is that so, Garbage?

[Garbage]

Indeed it is.

[Inyan]

This is an idea: Get a tripod set up. Keep it stationary. Get a pot with a seed in it. Keep it stationary. Take a picture every month being careful not to move the camera from the tripod or the potted cacti. Set the pictures up via a slide show to appear to be moving forward with the months? Sure, it might take a bit of work, but it would be nice. Especially so with a grafted seedling. What is the youngest age a Lophophora seedling has been grafted? Has anyone grafted a seedling as it was just emerging from the seed? Has anyone grafted a seedling while the majority of the embryo was still inside the seed? While it is nice to see the size of some seedlings being grafted, knowing how old the seedling is can help ease some of the tension of would be grafters. I feel like I'm asking a lot of questions here, but I find that its often helpful for me to ask how can something be done even when others seem to think it is impossible to do. Sometimes the person is asking the wrong question, but there is an answer that best fits the intent of the question. I'm sure some of you can come up with easier and less invasive methods/answers than the ones I pose, but thats what we are here for. Stimulate answers or stifle them with a simple no, it can't be done. I've never been one to think in terms of impossible. Improbable or highly unlikely... Infertile or not very fertile. Each has their own connotation and each opens up different possibilities or closes the door to possibilities in our own minds. I prefer to keep the doors open.

[kadakuda]

i would like to, but our house is really busy and REALLY low on space. o have seedling shelves nailed to my walls there is so little space lol! so tripod setups are out. but i will update.

the original 2 at the top are dead (well one is technically MIA but thought to be KIA)

these are the same seeds, new sprouts.

Inyan, grafting at any stage is possible, even just germinated in the seed coat, although it is quite finicky and difficult unless you have good eyes and steady hands. i usually graft these once the seed falls off. the ones above i will be grafting tomorrow or sunday probably (see how time allows).

[Garbage]

They don't hang about in your house!

The Germans may call it 'fast foot'.

As in,'Own roots,no fast foot!'.

[Inyan]

Well Kada, it looks like you have at least 8 new seedlings to graft and if these turn out to be hybrids even one grafted specimen, but preferably two would be mesmerizing. With two, you could at least try to cross the two F1 seedlings to each other if they aren't self fertile. Back crossing to the mom or a different mom of the same species of course could be done regardless. And of course the offending pollen from the original cross could also be tried on these same seedlings as well. Yes, I know I'm getting ahead of the game, but all hybridizers think in terms of the future possibilities with such crosses. Here's keeping my fingers crossed for you.

Have you tried grafting your seedlings to the apical meristem of your stock or do you generally graft much further down with your seedlings? One more quick question, have you ever grafted a seedling to a cutting that was not rooted?

My smallest graft attempted so far was an embryo excised from a seed. Of course, you can see how large the embryo was.

[kadakuda]

yes those work. if you have steady hands you can have great success! i am a little shaky and my dexterity is not that good anymore, not sure why....so i gave up that method because it is pretty difficult for my to do such precise work but it does work, rest assured.

indeed, there are plants for these. my main goal is to cross them back to the father, that wold likely give the best visual results. but i dont want to jinx myself before the grafts are healthy. i know now that these are probably all rather weak, and i know they cant take the sun like pure species of either parent, at least as quickly.

i also have an apparent L. williamsii (father) and L. fricii (mother) hybrid that is grafted and growing well. only 5 seeds in the fruit (unusual for my fricii plants which usually have 20-60 per fruit), only one germinated. fingers crossed....but i am not exactly sure how to tell if it is a hybrid or not with such similar parents! any ideas lol?

here is the mom (this is my designated fricii hybrid mommy and pollen donar).

and the dad.