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MindExpansion

No opt-out web filtering

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PeacefulSon sent me this link and I thought I should post it up:

Bullshit

Australians may not be able to opt out of the government's Internet filtering initiative like they were originally led to believe. Details have begun to come out about Australia's Cyber-Safety Plan, which aims to block "illegal" content from being accessed within the country, as well as pornographic material inappropriate for children. Right now, the system is in the testing stages, but network engineers are now saying that there's no way to opt out entirely from content filtering.

The Australian government first revealed its filtering initiative in 2007, which it expected to cost AUS$189 million to implement. That money would go toward imposing filtering requirements on ISPs, who would have to use the Australian Communications and Media Authority's official blacklist, which is in turn based on the country's National Classification Scheme.

Australia moved forward with its plans despite widespread public outcry and began testing the system in Tasmania in February of this year. At the time, the Australian Communications and Media Authority (ACMA) said that the filters would be enabled by default and that consumers would have to request unfiltered connectivity if they wished to opt-out of the program.

Well, it turns out now that those promises were only partially true. Internode network engineer Mark Newton told Computerworld that users are able to opt out of the "additional material" blacklist—which targets content inappropriate for children—but not the main blacklist that filters what the Australian government determines is illegal content.

"That is the way the testing was formulated, the way the upcoming live trials will run, and the way the policy is framed; to believe otherwise is to believe that a government department would go to the lengths of declaring that some kind of Internet content is illegal, then allow an opt-out," Newton said. "Illegal is illegal and if there is infrastructure in place to block it, then it will be required to be blocked—end of story."

A spokesperson for the Australian Communications Minister seemed to confirm this revelation by saying that the filters would be required for all Australian citizens.

Assuming this is in fact the way the scheme is implemented in practice, it raises plenty of troubling questions. "Illegal" is a broad definition, leaving users wondering exactly what kinds of content will end up falling prey to the government's apparently mandatory filtering restrictions. Will Big Content be ringing up the Aussie government soon to have tracker sites added to the blacklist? What about sites that discuss topics like at-home bomb making, or something a little less explosive, like DVD decryption tools? And how about those sites that advise users on how to get around the filters? Will various Wikipedia pages be blocked?

Australia continues to ignore its own government-funded studies from 2006 that show ISP-level filtering to be ineffective and costly. The Australian government's disregard for those prior studies suggests that the driving force behind the current plan is more political than technical.

I can't believe this shit. They're right too, what's illegal, good bye erowid? Good bye pillreports?

I think its time we burned down the parliament, and start fresh! Either that or we need to move elsewhere.

Free country my ass, we're ever increasingly living in a prison system ("They're tryin to build a prison, thery're tryin to build a prison they're tryin to build a prison, for you and me to live in, another prison system another prison system, another prison system, for you and me.")

Its like bit by bit they pick away our freedoms, and then make up excuses for why that is in fact for our benefit, that way people who cant think for themselves sit back and just take it.

Peace

Edited by MindExpansion

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I think most people forget that (unless I'm totally mistaken) most hardcore porn is either x rated or unclassifiable, rendering it illegal under the classifications rules. I could be wrong, it's a few years since I've read the classification rules in in detail.

But yes, there might be a whole host of sites that could technically be deemed 'illegal'

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i don't think erowid or pillreports would be censored because reading their sites isn't illegal, so noones breaking any laws. But you're yearly subscription to equine-love.com might be under threat.

I agree its kind of creepy, but there -are- laws that decide if things are legal or illegal, its just the equivalent of putting a customs desk on the in-tube of the internet sorting out stuff going through. If you can't bring it through customs in an airport, you probably can't access it on the internet.

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i don't think erowid or pillreports would be censored because reading their sites isn't illegal, so noones breaking any laws.

Both of these examples would fail classification and hence would be prohibited [because they have trip reports and it is illegal to ]. I suggest you familiarise yourself with the australian classification laws before making assumptions, as you will be quite shocked by what it actually illegal. Have a look at the OFLC website database to see what sort of things are banned.

Any porn that explicitly shows a hard cock entering a vagina is beyond R classification and hence unclassifiable in australia. ie all X rated material would be prohibited. I think this is probably going to be the saving grace of this legislation. Too many people want their porn and there will be quite a backlash if they can't get it. The rest of the subversives just have to hide behind the porn juggernaut.

And yes, you're right, the filter is nothing more than an inline customs desk. But you should really have a look at what is actually prohibited in australia. For example, this site would be. Most of the books recommended on here are also prohibited. High Times magazine is already RC, so you can see what sort of pot related websites would be filtered - pretty much all of them.

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all X rated material would be prohibited

Really? Swear there are x rater porno mags/vids in adult shops... but maybe not.

Didn't know high times was restricted content but that seems pretty obvious. I felt the way you do Torsten, I can only imagine how much stuff on the web would be technically classified, anything related to drugs in many ways, except propaganda and anti-drug (mostly) crap.

Would be a major bummer to see sources of safety info like that on erowid and pillreports be taken offline... I think they should be going the other way and encouraging the availability of that sort of info because they are meant to have a 'harm reduction' policy on drugs.

Peace

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I suggest you familiarise yourself with the australian classification laws before making assumptions,

i couldn't really be bothered sorry..

Any porn that explicitly shows a hard cock entering a vagina is beyond R classification and hence unclassifiable in australia. ie all X rated material would be prohibited.

You can get X-Rated movies in the ACT no problem.. i don't think they'd go to all this trouble to ban X-rated stuff in every state but the ACT. It would be impossible from an upstream censor anyway. Edit: ME: I think you can get X-rated movies in other states as well but the cops just don't care, although they technically should.

Also websites don't require classification. Why does this site have anything to do with the OFLC? High Times is classified because its a publication, but internet sites aren't publications, so they can't be prohibited. Just illegal. If it's not illegal, then it should get through.

Don't get me wrong this filter is the stupidist piece of shit legislation on top of a whole steaming pile of shit legislation, not least of all because it will slow everything down - but big deal? maybe not. They won't censor erowid, or this site..

Edited by Undergrounder

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i couldn't really be bothered sorry..

personal freedoms and democracy require an effort to be made. They should never be taken for granted.

You can get X-Rated movies in the ACT no problem.. i don't think they'd go to all this trouble to ban X-rated stuff in every state but the ACT.

That's exactly what the situation is. Only NT and ACT have X rated material available, and the NT material was recently prohibited along with all other porn thanks to the intervention.

I am not sure exactly how the ACT exemption works in the national classification framework though.

Edit: ME: I think you can get X-rated movies in other states as well but the cops just don't care, although they technically should.

yes, you can, but these places frequently get raided and material is seized. Like I said, not everyone takes these thigns for granted.

Also websites don't require classification. Why does this site have anything to do with the OFLC? High Times is classified because its a publication, but internet sites aren't publications, so they can't be prohibited. Just illegal. If it's not illegal, then it should get through.

Websites were brought under the jurisdiction of the OFCL in the senate deal Harradine struck with Howard so he could sell telstra. While these laws are not enforced at this point, a government can chose to do so at any stage. Websites ARE publications - that was the whole point of Harradine's bill.

but big deal? maybe not. They won't censor erowid, or this site..

How naive. You don't even know what the laws are, have no idea of the sleeper legislation that has been in place for years, and you don't accept the explicitly stated goals of such legislation, but rather tell us everything is and will be OK cos you think so. Like I said, the lazy should not expect to retain such freedoms.

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cos you're too lazy, here is the blurb from the OFCL website about internet classification:

The Classification Board is also responsible for classifying internet content referred by the Australian Communications and Media Authority, under the Australian Government's regulatory scheme for online services.

Schedule 5 to the Broadcasting Services Act 1992 (the BSA) provides that content referred by the Australian Communications and Media Authority to the Classification Board will be classified in the same way as a film or a computer game.

What is prohibited online content [from the acma website]:

http://www.acma.gov.au/WEB/STANDARD/pc=PC_90156

What is prohibited content?

Under the Broadcasting Services Act 1992, the following categories of online content are prohibited:

* Any online content that is classified RC* or X 18+* by the Classification Board (formerly the Office of Film and Literature Classification). This includes real depictions of actual sexual activity, child pornography, depictions of bestiality, material containing excessive violence or sexual violence, detailed instruction in crime, violence or drug use, and/or material that advocates the doing of a terrorist act.

* Content which is classified R 18+* and not subject to a restricted access system that prevents access by children. This includes depictions of simulated sexual activity, material containing strong, realistic violence and other material dealing with intense adult themes.

* Content which is classified MA 15+*, provided by a mobile premium service or a service that provides audio or video content upon payment of a fee and that is not subject to a restricted access system. This includes material containing strong depictions of nudity, implied sexual activity, drug use or violence, very frequent or very strong coarse language, and other material that is strong in impact.

* Classifications are based on criteria outlined in the Classification (Publications, Films and Computer Games) Act 1995, National Classification Code and the Guidelines for the Classification of Films and Computer Games 2005.

How is the law enforced?

What are content service providers required to do about prohibited content?

Content service providers have a responsibility to remove or prevent access to prohibited content from their service once notified by ACMA of the existence of the content.

Content service providers have a responsibility to comply with registered industry codes of practice (or, in the absence of a code, industry standards developed by ACMA).

So, you can see that the laws are already in place to:

* require classification of online content

* eliminate all x rated content and anything that provides instructions for drug use [this last item has been used VERY liberally by the OFCL to the point where at least 10% of threads on this forum would fail classification.

* make the ISP responsible for enforcing and policing content

Now go back to sleep...

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I think its time we burned down the parliament, and start fresh!

"systems aren't just made of bricks,

they're mostly made ov people.

You may send them into hiding,

but they'll be back again."

Crass.

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So Torsten, really we are already in a situation where those laws are there, but putting on this filter just means the ISP's are no longer in charge of banning content?

I assume this is because they haven't really been doing it?

I think its fucked. They tell me what I can't do with my body, now they tell me what I can't look at in the privacy of my home. And that I can't find any useful drug safety information because this could all be considered advice on drug use.

Thanks for getting that info T. I'm amazed that that those laws are actually in place in this 'free country' of ours...I mean sure other countries may have it worse, but for a country that talks so much about freedom, and even involves itself in campaigns (wars) in other coutries to supposedly bring about freedom there, I don't think we're doing so well here.

Peace

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The ISP will still be responsible for filtering, but these filter will mean they would no longer have an excuse not to do it [which is the situation at the moment]. Essentially the ISPs are breaking the law constantly, but becuase the govvy has not provided an effective way to enforce it, it is also not enforcing the requirement with the ISP.

These sort of sleeper laws are insidious, but are the way a lot of legislation is introduced to the public. By the time the law is enforced neither Harradine nor Howard have a case to answer for, and the government of today can blame the previous one for the laws. They will make use of some high profile pedophile media beat up to show us that the new filter is essential for our safety and the sheeple will be glad that the government is there to protect us.

If you don't like what is happening then join electronic frontiers, who are pretty much the only group that fights for internet freedoms.

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I agree, anyone who is concerned (and you should be) should visit the http://www.efa.org.au/ and/or http://nocleanfeed.com/sites and contribute by at least writing to the minister and your local member. I know I will be. The other thing that is important here is that people understand what they could loose. When the PM says "illegal content", people don't realise how much that is, they just think it's child porn and bestiality and bomb-making. But it's not - it's a lot of content that people take for granted. I know no one is going to get on TV and stand up for porn, but I think that if I want to watch consenting adults fuck or read a spice extraction tek on the internet, I should be able to make those choices

I love living in Aus, and I've never considered permanently relocating anywhere else, but I would really like to live somewhere where the government at leasts pretends to treat me like an adult and let me make some of my own decisions for a change. :ana:

The more I think about this the angrier I get, and the worse this whole idea sounds. I meant, there is the possibility a lot of money will go into it and nothing will happen. I think that's the best we can hope for. But what if it even half works? Talk about potentially fucking up the flow of information, some of which could save potential psychonauts from serious harm. And what if they can block all the X - rated content? What a great opportunity for organised crime to do some (more) smuggling!

Just curious, are there any penalties for the end users who access the (for example) X rated material? Because if there were, it would be a great political tool to deal with pain in the arse libertarians.

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Just curious, are there any penalties for the end users who access the (for example) X rated material? Because if there were, it would be a great political tool to deal with pain in the arse libertarians.

yes, possession of RC [refused classification] material, which includes all X rated material, is an offence. ie, you can be prosecuted for possessing High Times magazine, PIHKAL, hardcore porn, etc regardless of what medium this is delivered in. If you look at the OFCL website you can see that a lot of material is referred to the OFCL by the police and customs. These classifications are then used in prosecution.

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I was thinking of accessing the content, rather than downloading & keeping, but I suspect it potentially turns out to be much the same thing in the end.

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This is worse than the biggest book burning you could imagine. This is the first I have heard of it. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. I am completely outraged.

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An exerpt from an old article I found the other day, quite worrying what could be lost

"To be censored by the Australian Government is “pornography and inappropriate material.” X rated pornography is illegal online in Australia, as are casino style internet gambling, certain forms of “hate” speech and R rated computer games. BitTorrent would be a possibility, even if certain downloads for personal use may be legal under Australian law, sharing those downloads would not be. How far “inappropriate material” may extend was not made clear, for example questioning Government policy where it comes to Aboriginal people could be deemed to be discrimination under Australian law and hence blocked by the censorship regime. Worst still, bloggers or those (such as forum owners) who allow users to comment or post could find themselves blocked under this proposal should someone say or post the wrong thing. If there is one certainty in any country that implements broadscale censorship, once they start blocking content it doesn’t stop, and certainly every do-gooder group and special interest lobbyist will be wanting the Government to add to the list."

http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/12/30/austr...g-the-internet/

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Shit guys, you should all check out my Personal Freedoms on the S&P Exchange, turns out I don't need them any more. I need to clear some space so I can do my best to store the whole internet before it vanishes and I end up doing something really dangerous and really stupid simply because I didn't know better, and had no place to get the information I needed.

In fact, since you'd clearly be doing me a favour, maybe I should pay you to take away my liberties. Oh, wait...

Anyone moving to China? I hear (but not for long!) they still have an economy.

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Will be funny if this is a recession of the west and the emerging superpowers get their chance to take it over...

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60 minutes tonight, this may be part of the gov's ploy to make people sit back and take this scam.

They are doin a section on net porn, and one of their comments was 'its there, and its tempting your kids'.

Peace

GRRR Hate that show, for many many reasons, but now back to the doco about the galapagos islands...ahhh much better, far less to grit my teeth at.

Edited by MindExpansion

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The Way Technology Often Seems To Work

 

  1. Create program to block content
  2. Create program to unblock blocked content
  3. Create program to reblock unblocked blocked content
  4. Create program to unblock reblocked unblocked blocked content
  5. ...

 

... ad infinitum

Let the games begin...

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Perhaps connected (though maybe not directly) to the Senate inquiry into hardcore (X or unclassifable/unclassified) porn being sold at servo's. http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/10/20/2396420.htm

Note Barn0by's assertion that the porn was encouraging people who prey on children.

Like I said, these events are not closely connected, but there does seem to be a lot of government and associated conservative effort going into stop us from seeing what they don't want us to see.

Quit grittin' your teeth MindExpansion and get active! You get better results and less dentist's bills.

As for liberties - I believe that stiiting at the core of much of this is the problem with how rights are enshrined in our constitution and law, as well as in our minds. Other places seem to have the view that where there are persons there are rights, and then it's up to the government to work on taking them away (ideally only where appropriate). Here however, the notion that persons automatically have rights, or that there needs to be very good reason for interfering with them seems lacking across our political arena.

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The Way Technology Often Seems To Work

 

  1. Create program to block content

     

  2. Create program to unblock blocked content

     

  3. Create program to reblock unblocked blocked content

     

  4. Create program to unblock reblocked unblocked blocked content

     

  5. ...

     

 

... ad infinitum

Let the games begin...

with each step the audience gets smaller. ie, there are always some that won't be able to keep up with the changes. Freedoms need to be universal - not connected to how websavvy you are.

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Exactly Torsten, sure there will be ways to get around it, but as the ways get harder, the people who can do it become fewer. They do make their methods into programs, but even those who look in the right places for those programs need to know what to look for to a degree.

Peace

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freedoms and democracy require an effort to be made. They should never be taken for granted.

Like I said, the lazy should not expect to retain such freedoms.

Freedoms need to be universal - not connected to how websavvy you are.
:scratchhead:
Exactly Torsten, sure there will be ways to get around it, but as the ways get harder, the people who can do it become fewer. They do make their methods into programs, but even those who look in the right places for those programs need to know what to look for to a degree.

Peace

The net is a rather special medium, very much along the lines of "by the ppl, for the ppl". It takes but one person to discover something, then in a fraction of a second, billions of copies can be made and distributed at a global level. Seeking to locally control such a global onslaught of data seems to be a bit on the problematic side, greatly hindered by the fact that each source of local control doesn't seem to be able to agree on the definition of acceptable or objectionable (Why oh why can't we all just get along? :rolleyes:).

Then there's those darn search engines which allow you to type in a few key words here and there and suddenly it's like information just readily appears at your fingertips. These search engines certainly seem to help turn down the heat of having to know everything yourself by quite a few degrees or so.

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