Psychedelics and Psychosis?

[cycle]

This happened to me on a strong LSD trip once aswell. I could not differ reality from my thoughts. It was like I was in a dreamstate where I never knew what was real. I would think about one of my friends dying and think it was actually happening. I would talk to my friends in these 'dream thoughts' thinking it was real, to my friends it just looked like I was babbling away to myself. I thought my close friends were conspiring against me and had purposely turned me forever insane for not obeying their demonic commands. Music took control of my thoughts and I believed it had been written by my friends, who I thought were gods, in order to do so. I sunk deeper and deeper into these sort of paranoid delusions until I believed I had control of the future. I thought I was choosing futures which resulted in my friends deaths and insanity until finally I believed in order to save my friends I had to kill myself. To kill myself, choose the future where I died, I believed I had to forget everything about my life and let go of everything wordly. I did this and I think really all I did was let go of my ego and in a split second I snapped out of this crazy state and was basically sober. It was so strange.

Wow.

Thank you for posting such a personal account. Do you mind if I ask how this experience has affected your ability to continue your relationship with psychedelics? Are you afraid you could get echos of that experience reoccuring or go back into it?

[immanuel]

The experience left me very scared and confused, but very humbled at the same time. I've learnt a greater respect about setting, not just the environment but what's going on in life aswell. It didn't take long for my courage to come back, and I feel much more prepared for my next psychedelic experience. It felt as though I was on the brink, if not in a psychosis, although i've been told many times someone in a bad trip will resemble psychotic symptoms, that's just how it felt. I feel I can almost relate to the insane people I sometimes see on the street. I smoked alot of weed during that trip aswell, i'm not sure if that would of played a role. The strangest thing about the whole experience to me was the way I snapped out of it, from complete chaos to sobriety in the click of a finger. I've pondered alot on this trip, and I think I've come to understand alot of the reasons why such strange things happened.

About a year after this trip I decided to give psychedelics another try and just took one tab of LSD, wasn't to strong probably around 80mcg or something. About two hours into the trip I was getting light patterns and tracers and I felt pretty comfortable so I had a cone, and everything just took off. I started coming up really, really fast and somehow, it was almost like I had a flashback to this trip. I don't know how to explain it but for that moment I was back in the exact same spot as my last trip. Even what I was seeing with my eyes was the same. I was frightened at first but I was able to welcome these feelings and see the beauty in all the chaos I last experienced. Suddenly it just went away and I was back to where I was supposed to be and the rest of the night was brilliant. It was like the LSD tested me to see if I was ready to venture back in it's waters, and since I was I enjoyed my trip.

[MindExpansion]

I smoked alot of weed during that trip aswell, i'm not sure if that would of played a role.

IMO, undoubtedly.

Peace

[JDanger]

^^ Ditto. Similar experiences here.

[VeeK]

I've been told I fell into a psychosis once. My friend said I had several personalities and was changing moods very rapidly.

This was from stupidly smoking 14 cones in a row on the downside of a molly roll. I haven't experienced anything since, but I tend to know my limits these days

[holymountain]

this is kind of similar....a freind who tried DXM once said that he thought his co workers were witches and warlocks that controlled the universe. he was convinced they sucked energy from all the other workers in their sleep and they used this energy to make themselves stronger. the friend was convinced that he had to get out of his job or at least tell all the other people that worked there what was happening. this was extremely real and he thought he had uncovered some great big conspiracy.

of course he later realised this was just some great big paranoid delusion but was amazed that he actually experienced such thoughts and believed them at the time...

[mutant]

this is kind of similar....a freind who tried DXM once said that he thought his co workers were witches and warlocks that controlled the universe. he was convinced they sucked energy from all the other workers in their sleep and they used this energy to make themselves stronger. the friend was convinced that he had to get out of his job or at least tell all the other people that worked there what was happening. this was extremely real and he thought he had uncovered some great big conspiracy.

of course he later realised this was just some great big paranoid delusion but was amazed that he actually experienced such thoughts and believed them at the time...

did this guy take the dxm at work???

ts-tsk-tsk....

Edited November 12, 2008 by mutant

[holymountain]

did this guy take the dxm at work???

ts-tsk-tsk....

no way. god no. dear god no. but he kept having visions/delirium where he thought he was at work.

[TheDudeAbides]

this is a topic htat has always plagued with my while experimenting with pschedelics ????. after extensive reading and lots of mind blowing thinking just about how this can actually happen. how can u actually think somone is a corpse or anything crazy like that as which i have heard? yet have u known anyone who has done a substance which has made them think they have turned into an orange and they spend the rest of there lives peeling themselves???????????????????? through extensive reading its just a chemical imbalance in the brain.... thhat is why something like psychosis or schizophrenia is related to psychedelics. psychedelics seem to hold the anwers to these disorders as when taking a psychedlic substance all you are doing if creating they imbalance in the brain whether it be dmt level serotinon etc... the problem with psychosis or schizophrenia is there chemical imbalance is permanit. there body either produces too much of the chemical dmt or there MAO inhibitors arent up to scratch... well from my udnerstanding its something along these lines... this is one the use of psychedelic research needs to be a primary topic into finding an anti dmt substance in which could be created to stop chemical imbalance in these diseases. still i need more research i believe taking psychedlics as a sacred ritual. i have had mate who took lsd twice which 10 days... he did think he was never going to sleep again eva in his life?? just too much of a trip in short time... i hope this information is some what close to correct please feel free to correct me with anything

[TheDudeAbides]

also one more quick thing.... the link you posted where the guy stated he suffered from depression etc and had low serotonin levels.... if this is happening people need to start lookng at swallowing sum 5HTP capsules which naturally puts serotinon back into the brain

[MindExpansion]

there body either produces too much of the chemical dmt or there MAO inhibitors arent up to scratch...

Ummmm....no.

i have had mate who took lsd twice which 10 days... he did think he was never going to sleep again eva in his life??

Hah? If you are suggesting that you're mate stayed up for 10 days then they are lucky they didn't die. Also, if you are suggesting that taking lsd twice in 10 days kept them up that long, OR that each of the two times they took acid they stayed up for 10 days...then well, perhaps a bit of a 'the fish was this big' srota thing (sorry to greet you with such skepticism).

Peace

[mutant]

mike_w598

your writing doesn't help much to understand all of what you're saying, but I will comment on this one

i believe taking psychedlics as a sacred ritual

In my opinion, this is no protection against the dangers... or at least this is not the ultimate protection... especially if we are flirting with psychosis/paranoia problems...

Moreover, psychedelics have proven to carry great potential for lesser psychological problems like various types of nevrosis - but it has also been proven that as far as psychosis and schizophrenia is concerned, even though there is still potential, the risks are significantly greater. I would take this one step further and say that maybe other types psychedelics, dissociatives like salvia divinorum might just have greater potential and less risk for harder cases... but that's a rough guess...

Psychiatrists, back to the day research with LSD was legal, DID experiment with hard cases like psychosis and schizophrenia, and had very mixed results... Pretty brave on their side, I would say...

[Thelema]

I once was reading about Adi Da, the "Godman" and then later that day *just happened* to take some 2ce. Well, I went through 12 hours of feeling that he had commandeered my soul. I nearly put a carving knife through my navel!

[Re-Grifter]

I'd like to point out to the anti-drug types rubbing their hands together with glee reading this thread that an (ex) friend of mine is currently killing himself with alcohol....and it really ain't pretty.

Imo psychosis caused by booze is particularly nasty.

[mutant]

booze-induced psychosis?

[Re-Grifter]

Yes.

That's what i said.

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/289848-overview

[mu!]

lol thats a new one!

sorry to hear about ur friend though. is he drinkin to get over a girl? maybe its femaled-related psychosis, they've been known to send the odd bloke here n there a bit nuts

[mutant]

Ok, friend, now that I confirmed what you said, you have to know that what this article is talking about is alcohol related X, not alcohol induced X.

"Alcohol-related psychosis is often an indication of chronic alcoholism" ... also, the article says it's difficult to diagnose. Also note the section of the site the article is posted: addictions - another indication were talking about chronic alcoholics...

also

Roughly 3% of persons with alcoholism experience psychosis during acute intoxication or withdrawal.

yeap, haven't read much of it, but it's pretty clear we are talking about chronic alcoholics here...

And should I add, if someone is an alcoholic, then, he's already pretty much fucked-up, not that a accompanying psychotic syndrome is welcome along his day-after-day alcohol adventures.... Alcoholism is nasty itself...

I am too sorry for your friend, but it would be easy for someone who has some psychosis related problems to take up an alcohol habit, and then blame it all on the alcohol... Many people with mental issues take up alcohol as a relief... does not mean it is the cause of the problem, but usually some sort of self-medication, something for relief.... but in the long term, much drinking and persistant mental issues are also said to be a bad combo...

how long has your friend been drinking? He doesn't sound like an alcoholic. Also, and excuse my french, I don't really believe everything a guy with psychotic problems says. Sorry for that, but believeing in a psychotics potential illusions doesn't allow one to see what's REALLY going on...

=================

Moreover, I don't know what antidrug types reading the threads you are talking about, but boy, psychedelics can be quite dangerous, and even though I have come to accept the communities status about this, it still amazes me how unwilling people are to accept this or even discuss it [for fear of negative advertisement??]

trying to bash other legal or illegal drugs which also can be or proove quite dangerous, will not do any good to your drug of choice.. IMO, drugs [independent of the type] , like guns, are more dangerous in the hands of idiots and dogmatics...

Edited December 24, 2008 by mutant

[t st tantra]

just a thought.........

if you had a psychosis would you prefer to be treated by someone who had experienced psychosis or someone who had studied it ?

t s t .

[mutant]

Hmmm, that's very general... I have no idea where you taking this at...

What kind of guy is this who 'has experienced psychosis' ? Does he still have episodes from time to time? Where these only a couple of secluded psychotic episodes? Has he done his lesson since? Has he got rid of his illusions? Or illusions might be a good thing?

Moreover, if one has psychosis , he might not be able to think or judge straight, and propably regards some of his illusions solid reality. Someone who has psychosis might think it's cool to be psychotic [he might also dismiss he is anyway], because it's pretty understandable to me a psychotic might even go through extreme euphoric states where his illusions turn to be the central point of life.

I personally regard reality the place we all live, and psychedelics and any psychoactives in general didn't change this. We still return to this reality and this objective reality is the real terrain of real life. In these state we eat, flirt, make sex and philosophise our past experiences.

A psychotic who wants to find himself, might want to hang around more 'normal' people, take up 'normal' habits, quite all kinds of drugs like cannabis, psychedelics and dissociatives for some time or even for ever, discuss with people he trusts, family, parents, a trusted psychiatrist.... It's cool if it's OK for him to discuss with a former psychotic, or someone who has had such problems, but treated???? Dunno

[immanuel]

I've been doing alot of reading into this subject and have been reading buddhists scriptures aswell, and from my experiences and what I can gather I think schizophrenia/psychosis is really not any different to something like anxiety, depression or an afterglow. Simply an altered perception, a way the brain has been trained to think.

When I tripped on LSD I had what I can only call a psychotic experience. This delusional state continued well after the effects of the LSD should have worn off. Three other friends ate the same LSD off the same sheet and had 'normal' LSD trips, and sobered up in about 10 hours. I was still psychotic at around 14-16 hours.

I believed people could read my mind, I thought I had control of the future, I thought I was killing people with my thoughts, I believed Gods were controlling my mind, I thought everybody around me knew exactly what was happening to me except me, and it was just a big game to mock me, I even remember experiencing catatonia. I was sitting in the car, and I would put my body in these crazy positions in an attempt to feel comfortable, I'd stay in these positions and just completely ignore anything external, because I was so caught up in my head. These are definately not normal LSD effects and after research found symptoms like these are quite common in schizophrenic's.

Basically what was happening to me was I was interpreting everything wrong. All the external information was being interpreted by my brain, completely wrong. When I beleived people could read my minds, i'd interpret all their language, body and verbal, in a way that prove to me that they really could read my mind. When I thought I was choosing futures, i'd do the same, interpret all the external information in a way that would back up these crazy delusions. Like my friend said 'it feels like my teeth are falling out', and I thought he meant, 'dont choose that future I have no teeth!'. Or when my friend would say my name, I thought he was crying out for help because I was killing him. When my friend said he was thirsty, I thought he was dying of dehydration. At one point I believed my friends were in a massive drug funded gang, and then they pulled out these lollies and I thought the lollies were all pills in disguise.

Well around 16 hours since I had ingested the LSD, I was still going nuts. At this very moment, (+16hrs) the whole thing was more intense that it ever had been. I basically thought I had to choose between two futures, one where I died, or one where my friend died. This was when I was catatonic, and my friend kept saying my name over and over, asking me what I was doing, but I just ignored him. When I was catatonic, I was in a place where time didn't exist, time was not linear, but a vast expanse. This was why I would ignore everything external, because I didn't believe I existed in the realities which this external information came from. Everytime my friend would say my name or ask 'what are you doing?' I thought it was because I was killing him, and he was begging me to stop. I ended up believing that everytime a thought entered my head, it was killing my friend. I'd start thinking about things and forget it was killing him then suddenly he would say my name, or open the door and i'd realize I was killing him and quickly stop thinking. I'd flip between these two stages of thought, thinking each stage was a different future, the thoughts killing my friend and the emptiness was me dying. I didn't want to die, so tried to change it but inevitably it went back onto my friend. I was trying so hard to get out somehow, I didn't want to die, I didn't want my friend to die, I just wanted to get out, escape, it was hell, but everytime it would end up back on me killing my friend. It got to the point where I thought I was choking him to death with my thoughts and I could sense the life dissapearing out of him and he came so close to dying, I knew that there was no way I could live with myself if I killed him.

So I decided to kill myself, and to do this I believed I had to completely turn off my mind, no thoughts at all. It was extremely hard, and everytime a tiny thought entered my head I thought I was killing my friend, so I was forced to turn off my thoughts, completely shut off my mind. I do not believe I could of done this if I didn't think I was killing my friend. The craziest thing happened, when I started trying to kill myself stairway to heaven began playing, and for some reason, without realizing it, I was content with ending my life. I was awake, conscious, through this process, but as you can imagine when there are no thoughts in your head, your not really aware of whats going on. It's sort of like falling asleep. It's so strange to be able to look back on the whole process, especially when in my memories I thought I wad dying. It's really unexplainable, I cannot describe how it felt to have my mind completely shut down, and still be awake. From what I have read, I believe what I did was a meditative technique that buddhists devote their lives trying to achieve. 'Liberation'. It only lasted a few seconds, but as soon as I had fully turned off my mind, I just snapped out of the psychosis. Just like that, click and I was sane again. My friend who was watching me hanging my legs out the window or trying to push the car roof off with my feet, said it looked like I switched between a split personality or something. Because one minute I was just sitting there in some crazy position with my eyes closed, then the next I looked up and started talking/acting coherently.

The buddhists scriptures I have read describe psychosis as the lowest mindstate and liberation as the highest. There are certain meditative techniques one can use to move up one mindstate to the other. I think all I did was move from psychosis, to liberation. And the fact that after this happens, I find it all accurately described by the Buddhists, just shows to me how valid this is. I have been able to use certain techniques from these scriptures to turn off anxiety and depression. When I used to smoke large amounts of weed it would leave me feeling depressed/lethargic, heighten my anxiety and make me irratable, but with these same techniques I can smoke all day everday and not experience any negative effects over the following weeks. From my experience, I believe mental disorders are just ways the brain has been trained to think. Drugs change the way we think, and thus open up new trains of thoughts, which if we are not ready for can turn into mental disorders. I think with the right preparation, guidance, knowledge, psychedelics can be used very safely. But if somebody comes comes across disturbing thoughts, and they have no knowedgle or preparation etc. on how to deal with these kinds of thoughts, they can fall into a psychosis. That's how it happened to me, it started off as small delusions which I didn't know how to deal with, so tried to just ignore them, but they'd come back, bigger, and they'd just keep growing till I was psychotic.

I think psychedelics and buddhism have alot in common. All that's different is psychedelics force onto you, what buddhists train tehmselves to achieve. In order to achieve such states naturally, they must train themselves in a way that they can deal with disturbing situations and thoughts. But since this kind of knowledge and preparation is not needed to eat LSD, a peice of paper, people can experience states they are not ready for. I'd recommend everyone read a book like the Tibetan Book of the Dead, and learn how to avoid such states as nuerosis, and psychosis, and even how to rise up into higher mindstates. Just thought i'd chuck in what i've learnt from my experience. I don't know how valid it is, or will be for others, but it's quite valid for me and works quite well. I read anything to suggest that there is some sort of understanding of how this happens, so I want to try and figure it out. I plan to spend alot more time looking into this, cause it's a subject that I find very intruiging.

[faustus]

if you had a psychosis would you prefer to be treated by someone who had experienced psychosis or someone who had studied it ?

LOL a few months ago i decided that i wanted to induce a psychosis on myself for that same reason.

when i have some free time and when things are less hectic i'll probably try it with escalating doses of L-dopa.

everyone thinks i'm nuts for wanting to do it. i disagree, but they have a point.

[mutant]

everyone thinks i'm nuts for wanting to do it. i disagree, but they have a point.

yea, they do...

[Neoshaman]

I just like to share the experience of a Yeti not the yeti on these boards but another Yeti well that was his nickname anyway his is the one experience that I have seen which i could regard as a temporary Psychedelics induced Psychosis

a group of friends were all partaking high dose candy flipping three or four of each I believe the doses that were consumed.

most of the night was filled with laughter and fun it was a controlled enviroment indoors probably the only location i would ever suggest in participating in activities of this nature at about 1am amid a fits of laughter the Yeti suddenly jumped up looked round the room strangely before Yelling "Your all fucked I'm joining the Army" at this point he took off out the door of the room and then out the front door of the house thankfully one of the people there at the time had only been doing speed and offered to go after the Yeti unfortunately the police found him before we did , although I suppose a naked man with dredlocks and one shoe running down the side of a freeway is a pretty obvious sign of intoxication. The police were going to drive him to mandala ( local mental institution) however before arrival he had semi- snapped back to reality and somehow convinced them to take him home however they let him out of the paddywagon about 1km from his house in Jilliby and the poor fucker had to make his way home through the bush.

When I spoke to him the next day he remembered nothingh about the joining the army but said he had thought he was God and in control of the univerese my mate who had chased him also told us whenuthe police had tried to arrset him he attempted to cuddle the female officer ( while naked LOL) and then when told to get in the police car he had jumped into the drivers seat ( guess its lucky they remembered to remove the keys . The yeti also told us he was attempting to run home while in this satte and felt that his clothes were holding him back from flying so he threw them away all but one shoe thankfully he was fully normal with in a day or two but a very freaky experience all the same

[ThunderIdeal]

seems like loading up on licky is a good way to learn your true nature. the other stuff is a bit weird tho