Psychedelics and Psychosis?

[t st tantra]

if your sense of smell goes weird it can be an indicator of psychosis/schizophrenia.

personal experience,verified by another sab member,recent personal discussion.

science has confirmed this variation in smell for schizophrenics.

in yoga the sense smell is connected with the base chakra,your grounding in the physical world.

when you loose your grounding you can loose your sense of smell.

not loose but some things just smell weird and can have mental loadings.

i assume the connection between smell and memory is involved.

this can help make you paranoid and a bit alienated.

t s t .

Edited October 9, 2008 by t st tantra

[mutant]

Interesting stuff!! For the history, I note that my sense of smell is , I believe, quite bold and sensitive, for a guy born in a big city's outscirt, not in the woods

but some things just smell weird and can have mental loadings.

in this quote I should note that some smells are directly linked to certain emotions, situations, things, due to an intense [pleasant or otherwise] experience. So it feels pretty normal that a smell can bring on a memory of a specific event or a state of mind. And this even for a 'normal' individual.

Edited October 9, 2008 by mutant

[t st tantra]

something will smell different to how it usually smells,often with a weirdness to it,both in the smell and mental sense.

t s t .

[Mr Griffin...]

something will smell different to how it usually smells,often with a weirdness to it,both in the smell and mental sense.

t s t .

Can definitely verify that this is the case. "Phantom Smells" do exist and from what I've heard, they can often be associated with people who are sick; emotionally or physically.

A friend has very unusual ways to express feelings; he speaks few words but listens and often perceives the world around him in a way that is not viewed as normal... Recently, he was "connected to satellites that were talking to him in his head" and has always had "voices in his head since a young child".

"Phantom smells" were perceived on a person after NMDA-antagonistic and 5-HT2A agonistic substances were taken by the subject. This individual who had the "phantom odour" was at the time very scared, angry and depressed. The smell was unusual and likened to decaying flesh and butyric acid (ie, not very nice...). Psychiatric assistance revealed that the psychiatrist was well aware that sense of smell was something that is remarkably different in some individuals but that this sense of smell is not "phantom", instead, true "evidence" for emotion/illness that the subject may have difficulty percieving in normal reality-states.

Edited October 10, 2008 by Stramonium

[Mr Griffin...]

before the onset of schizophrenia, there's a prodromal phase that can be 12+ months warning that something is awry ... slowly the threads of sanity unweave. because schizophrenia is characterised by a hyperdopaminergic state and dopamine is involved in motivation/salience, in the prodromal phase some people who go on to develop schizophrenia say that it was as though the whole world became brighter. read into the aberrant salience hypothesis of schizophrenia ... so yeah, when this crazy world makes sense to you, that's when you're truly insane

Oh, CRAP! Just like to say, in that case, what's the best option: a) olanzapine (ewww) or amisulpride (OK...ish) ...To think I thought I was in "love" or "at one with nature" or "hooked up to some satellite system"...

"You mean those halo's around the TV and being able to laugh my ass off to David Letterman's Late Show are indicators of something wrong?!?! "

Anyway, I was always a bit "different", socially withdrawn, I liked to call it "Aspbergers" but whatever is cool with me !

Edited October 10, 2008 by Stramonium

[immanuel]

These replies are very interesting. The lack of understanding on this issue makes psychedelic use still seem like a bit of a gamble.

[MindExpansion]

It is. But there are ways to reduce risks when you gamble.

Peace

[Zen Peddler]

Only substance ive ever seen as a catalyst for psychosis or the onset of frank paranoid schizophrenia was dope. Three dudes I grew up with at school ripped a few cones and started talking with strange accents etc.

I also had a close friend recently diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia - he smoked a LOT of weed for a few years, droped acid maybe six times his entire life and then went clean. Symptoms didnt arise until after he went CLEAN.

Another friend of a friend had a bipolar episode after quiting dope smoking for a few months after a few years of reasonably heavy usage.

On the other hand im friends with around 9 dudes who have taken a LOT of acid, shrooms and other psychedelics - 2cb and 2ct7 on a few rare occasions (nasty stuff!!) and none of them have encountered any real issues other than maybe a few bad trips at the times and a few sort of anxiety related issues following these bad trips. None ever had an episode of psychosis following an acid/shroom trip and none have ever encountered flashbacks. Same deal for me.

The proof for me is in the pudding. Maybe its because these guys smoked dope and didnt get effects so did not have a predisposition to psychosis? Or maybe dope is the danger drug for bringing on mental illness if its there latently?

I dont really know.

I did feel bad for my friend - there were times when he'd knock back a joint and id insist. He is now on heavy anti-psychotics and I kind feel maybe I had a hand in that.

He did mdma one night and this was shorlty before is major first episode.

[t st tantra]

i believe john c lilly was right that entheogens allow access to programing levels and that at these times we can rewire ourselves or be rewired.

are most of us here 'drawn' to these states?......i certainly am.

my friend who had the extreem bridgesii exp has remembered he was told at the time he was not to take drugs again[exact details unknown!].would hate to face that prospect.in his case enfoced by severe reaction by his body.

its unpopular but lilly,leary and robert anton wilsons writings on the octave of energy or whatever you want to call it ,have given me useful roadmaps to travel by.

t s t .

[Tiki]

Psychosis: Increased subjective awareness of internal state.

You think you're going crazy so you try to act normal by controlling your behaviour in ways that appear crazy. You think you've got on top of it and everything's going fine? Welcome to Psychosis.

If you know you're crazy and you just don't give a shit, then you're probably the most mentally healthy person you know.

Shrooms and LSD for crazies? Not really for those with anxiety disorders but then that isn't always the rule. No point if you're schizophrenic. Insanely fun for those of us with bipolar....esp on the full moon!

Ketamine and PCP? Not good for anyone. The human mind isn't equipped to deal with the chaotic realities that overcome you at the edge of the k-hole, and the longer you spend on the brink the more threads it steals from your being. Nothing to be learned from it anyway.

People talk about ppl getting depression and anxiety from LSD and shrooms: Your ego is the sword the gods will use against you, so throw it away before you enter their realm! Your insecurites are the hounds that seek to devour you, face them with calm and they will become yours to unleash! The world will bend into a shape that reflects the flaws of your judgement, observe it and you improve your intuition!

Smoke the bud and sit in the sweat lodge until your body is numb before you drink the tea!

Ecstacy: for mindless souls who seek more love than they deserve.

Amphetamines: For clarity.....NOT FOR TRIPPING!

Life: For the Traveller who understands every Being is a window at the centre of the universe. You cannot describe the formless. Death cannot exist without life, emptiness without fullness; Infinity requires all possibilities to have existed; I am everything and nothing at once............................................................................

...................

which makes me one.

[Tiki]

Oh...

The only reality is the moment.

Behind it exist and infinite number of pasts.

In front of it exist an infinite number of futures.

Freedom can't exist until you realise time is a figment of your imagination.

I come and go.

[blizznshot]

Only substance ive ever seen as a catalyst for psychosis or the onset of frank paranoid schizophrenia was [marijuana]

Took the dope out to clarify, as it's snipped out and I don't want the context to be confused (to many people, dope means something else). But anyway, have you ever seen anyone on a coke binge? It's not a psychedelic, but this is a tried and true model for substance-induced psychosis. If you've seen or dealt with this, then you might be more sensitive in terms of picking up the not-so-obvious symptoms in other circumstances. I don't mean YOU, Zen, I'm just saying people in general. Seriously, this is evil stuff...

Also, and this is not boomers, but have you guys ever had to care for someone that got printed? Re-programming is certainly a way to describe it, lending validity to what TST is saying about Lilly. The problem is that you're being programmed but still retain much of your original thoughts/tendencies/etc. This can cause for rather severe cognitive dissonance, to the point where psychotic symptoms clearly manifest themselves. A not-so-idealist explanation is that your head is fucking scrambled and integrating everything in a completely abnormal fashion. And these are veteran travelers that can easily hold their shit on 700 mics. Push anyone too far for their particular state and it could happen.

[MindExpansion]

Your ego is the sword the gods will use against you, so throw it away before you enter their realm! Your insecurites are the hounds that seek to devour you, face them with calm and they will become yours to unleash! The world will bend into a shape that reflects the flaws of your judgement, observe it and you improve your intuition!

Wow, really well put man.

[devance]

Schizophrenia is logic/emotional loop which can last a long time.

For instance a past memory,

Your in a bar and a bully bothers you and you punch the bully's nose braking it.

All would be well as a memory but not if it replays every day.

Which is why some schizophrenia people become violent or live off garbage [dumpster diving]as that logic/emotional loop uses up all other capabilitys kind of like a computer virus that freezes up a computer by using all the memory capacity.

Best thing is to be supportive of a schizo as its not a life time condition in some cases.

I sometimes think that heavy daily dose of marijuana for months could interrupt the thought loop.

[incognito]

Ketamine and PCP? Not good for anyone. The human mind isn't equipped to deal with the chaotic realities that overcome you at the edge of the k-hole, and the longer you spend on the brink the more threads it steals from your being. Nothing to be learned from it

have u tried ketamine? what threads? why does it steal it, this brink ?

i cant imagine any1 having a bad ket experience. dont know about pcp sounds nasty, must be something in it regarding the vast amount of addicts it reprtedly has.

[JDanger]

Ecstacy: for mindless souls who seek more love than they deserve.

Come now, let's not be too open minded.

You make some interesting points, otherwise.

[indigo264nm]

Shrooms and LSD for crazies? Not really for those with anxiety disorders but then that isn't always the rule. No point if you're schizophrenic. Insanely fun for those of us with bipolar....esp on the full moon!

Helped cure my anxiety actually and yes... insanely fun for those of us with bipolar hahaha.

Taught me lots about what it means to be insane.

As did mania that was worsened by taking some dexxies and a bong habit along with it. Sitting around laughing my ass off at the fact that I could hear blood curdling screams of a female being murdered coming from outside and knew my brain was fucked but wasn't paranoid in the slightest... bit hard to be paranoid when you feel damned near invincible and you can see stick figures dancing along the walls. Then suddenly you can hear music coming from outside that you're next door neighbour wouldn't even know about and come to the conclusion that if you change the song in your head the music coming from outside the window will change accordingly. And it did. Then the valium kicked in and I gradually drifted off sleep.... A solid 5 hours in one night whereas I'd only slept 8 hours all up over the week prior to it.

That was when I realised that I was insane, knew it, and didn't give a shit.

Fun days but I'm glad I kicked the weed and am on mood stablisers now thats for sure. The higher you soar, the harder you crash, and that cycle was reaaally starting to interfere with my life.

Ecstacy: for mindless souls who seek more love than they deserve.

I agree with JDanger on that one haha.

It certainly has a valid use and a purpose... and goes mighty fine with psychedelics.

If you can give amphetamines a valid purpose such as clarity (I just see them as motivation and productivity in a chemical form these days) then you can't just say that MDMA is only for mindless souls.

Zenpeddlers quote:

2cb and 2ct7 on a few rare occasions (nasty stuff!!)

Are you serious man??? Beez is the most clear headed psychedelic ever.

Even a trip to the emergency ward (a horid place for people tripping) on 30+mg tripping absoloute fucking balls as a friend had sliced his foot pretty bad wasn't even enough to flip me out.

Even bumping into my next door neighbours at the emergency room to find out they were there because the daughter had tried to commit suicide that night wasn't enough to flip me out. Even slipping on a wet tile in my mates kitchen at 3am and breaking two of my toes against his bottom cupboards wasn't enough to make my night bad.

I had a fantastic night despite all of those horrible things that happened. Try having those things happen to you on acid and see how your night goes.

Edited October 15, 2008 by -=IndigoSunrise=-

[Zen Peddler]

Sorry - poorly worded post. I meant 2ct7 and not the Beez Kneez...

[incognito]

2cb and 2ct7 on a few rare occasions (nasty stuff!!)

r u sure u have?

this is where i stop reading this wank.

how can u say anything bad about 2cb?what was so 'nasty' about it? what dose are u taking? r u taking it and playing bingo in the local r'y?

and how oh how can u bag out ketamine!

what is ur experience with it? how did u use?

they may be your experience but it definately isnt mine nor anyone wlse that i personally know who would use such substances.

im gonna take a stab in the dark here and ask if u smoke dmt.

[Zen Peddler]

Gees are you replying to me - or are you talking to someone else??

1.When did I mention Ketamine?

2.I explained that I was NOT referring to 2cb

3.My experience with ketamine is irrelevant because i never mentioned ketamine in either of my posts.

[blizznshot]

Holy shit Indigo! That sounds like a rough set of events even without the 2b. I'm glad it didn't snowball for you, but that's really too bad about your neighbor. I hope they all pulled through as well...

[JDanger]

[edit] Disregard, misread post.

[edit #2]

These replies are very interesting. The lack of understanding on this issue makes psychedelic use still seem like a bit of a gamble.

I like to think of us as pioneers in the field. Well, the Western field, anyway.

Edited October 15, 2008 by JDanger

[t st tantra]

at birth everyone is given a book 'the complete guide to being a human'........not,lol.

t s t .

[indigo264nm]

^^^ Man it would be so good if we were born pre-programmed with all the knowledge of our predecessors.

Evolution would be so unbelievable fast that way.

[cycle]

If you know you're crazy and you just don't give a shit, then you're probably the most mentally healthy person you know.

Thank you for this I think it is beautiful

im gonna take a stab in the dark here and ask if u smoke dmt.

Is this a personal slight I'm missing? Or are you saying you don't approve of smoking dmt? Any reason? (Obviously it's illegal and none of us would condone it) but could you clarify that comment please?

Edited October 16, 2008 by cycle