Would you go to war for australia

[nabraxas]

Many of our soldiers are racists and not very nice people I'm sure but I believe that in general they are more civilized and have a higher sense of morals than most people in many other countries!

Canberra has longstanding ties with the TNI going back to the 1965-66 CIA-backed military coup that brought the Suharto dictatorship to power. Along with the Pentagon, the Australian military helped train Indonesia’s special forces units.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2003/aug2003/kom1-a22.shtml

Australia once before crossed over this line of aiding the Indonesian internal security apparatus when it allowed its Special Air Service (SAS) to train and exercise with Indonesia’s special forces, Kopussus. Kopussus used the knowledge gained by their joint training with the SAS against many local anti-Javanese insurgents, including the East Timorese,

http://members.canb.auug.org.au/~wildwood/kopassus.htm

I have convictions so strong that I live for them and would gladly die for them, in fact I have no higher aspiration than this. I believe that we should aim to minimise innocent suffering in the world as much as possible both human and non human and would gladly kill to do this.

Ha Ha Ha....

If you do not have such beliefs then I pity you because to me your life is largely inconsequential and meaningless and I think you will come to realise this before it is over.

Is that a threat...Ha Ha Ha....

DEATH TO ALL BUTCHERS

[~shameless~]

i would volunteer my services if we were invaded, more of a non violent role though eg Machinery operator or nurse

I think my skills would be best utilised in that way,

[husk]

Yea right.. Earnest Hemingway was a vile disgusting man who promoted cruelty to animals, I would gladly wage war to rid the world of people like him!

yes and that would be... taking someone elses life and thus freedom so from the get go yr convictions are vile and you would die happy after killing another man? this isnt about Hemingway dude, if u must, insert any anti war quote, really

There's a word for that, its called cowardice! I have convictions so strong that I live for them and would gladly die for them, in fact I have no higher aspiration than this. I believe that we should aim to minimise innocent suffering in the world as much as possible both human and non human and would gladly kill to do this. I can assure you I would feel nothing of the "psychological turmoil" that shruman speaks of. If you do not have such beliefs then I pity you because to me your life is largely inconsequential and meaningless and I think you will come to realise this before it is over. I would rather die for something than live for nothing. I will raise my children to think the same way!

and thats yr opinion so why shove it down my throat in and act of retaliation for somthn that didnt even refer to you?

can u seriously say that to minimise suffering in the world yr highest aspiration is to KILL another man?

direct yr anger elsewhere pls, thankyou!

PEACE x

Edited August 28, 2008 by husk

[devance]

If Aus was invaded everyone there would fight to last man, women and child.

But theres something called the draft, which was at the time of the vietnam war, so the military age at 18 teen is the suitable age for such.

As 56 thousands drafttes dead as disco, who knows about other injurys.

So a Aus invasion would have massive response.

Anyone older can tell the military officer to fuck off.

And College graduates [university in Aus.]in the U.S is a officer automaticaly.

So the U.S. McCain is a military/political warmongerer.

His claim to fame is dropping bombs on vietnam [Hanoi]and got shot down and got spending 5 years in a military prison..

Hanoi hotel, as the prison called, but i really don't think a a jet guy that dropped bombs on heavily populated city areas could expect a banquet of flowers and asian cuisine.

There are bad guys around but a militarist political outlook is only going to cloud it up.

Look at 911 as reactionl, thats over the top.

A like a ant nest that got pissed off from a unkown attack.

The warrior ants got on the job.

Why not detected first before the national injury, Bush was asleep at the wheel and still does have a interest in the cooperate america interest above any other.

And cooperate america interest is down the toliet, so what was he doing.

[teonanacatl]

Hmm some interesting discussion.

Lets not attack anyone due to their choices though.

For me I couldnt imagine killing anyone, hard enough for me hunting and fishing. Ive seen a dead body that was mauled by a shark, not a pretty site but certainly not what I expected, very peaceful despite all the guts. BUT I would sacrifice my life and freedom whether that be that I die or that Im severely phycologically scarred for my country, for the freedom of others, my family and friends and the next generation. I probably wouldnt kill to protect myself but I would to protect others. The idea of running and hiding likewise appeals to me, it would give me freedom but would not nessecially provide freedom in the long run.

The reason I added the rebel group option was to show that many here certianly dislike the control placed on you in the armed forces, were the choice of rebel groups not available I would join the armed forces. Still I find it amazing and reassuring that such a large number of people had the same ideas as me.

Lets hope we never have to do it!!!!

[baphomet]

this isnt about Hemingway dude, if u must, insert any anti war quote, really

You made it about Hemingway when you quoted him, perhaps YOU should insert a better quote to begin with next time? By doing this you are saying that there is no excuse for killing another man under any circumstances but it is a great idea to go around brutally killing innocent animals for no better reason at all than the fun of killing something, even that it is a great thing to torture and humiliate an animal as much as possible before killing it. You tried to make a point but failed miserably and only proved yourself to be a hypocrite (among other things)!

I value the lives of those animals more than his! If assholes like him want to go around killing and torturing things for fun then they should be fully prepared to be subjected the same kind of treatment!

"can u seriously say that to minimise suffering in the world yr highest aspiration is to KILL another man?"

You are putting words in my mouth! But to answer your question I would strive to minimize innocent suffering in the world by all means necessary. I believe it is the highest thing that one can aspire to and is the most noble cause, it should override any religion, belief or goals that one may have! These are the values that I will teach my children. I would not hesitate to give my own life, nor would I hesitate to take life for this purpose and I would certainly not limit it to just one man.

That said, I would certainly not be of much use to anyone or anything if I was in jail so for the moment I am not going to run around killing people but we are speaking about morals and principals purely on a hypothetical basis. If I was in a position of power I would gladly kill large numbers of people to achieve my goals and would feel no guilt, this may never happen you may say but I will raise my children with the same aim in mind and they will teach the same guiding principals to their children. I will also encourage them and help them more than you can possibly imagine to get into positions of power where they can exert their influence and work towards these goals!

"thats yr opinion so why shove it down my throat in and act of retaliation for somthn that didnt even refer to you? direct yr anger elsewhere pls, thankyou!"

Who says I'm angry? I was just being honest! I am a very straightforward person, please do not confuse this with anger. As for shoving my opinion down your throat and "retaliating".. Is that what you call it when someone responds to one of your posts? Just because their opinion differs from yours?? That's fkn lame! Shame on you!! If you can't stand the heat why post your opinion in a public kitchen??

Edited August 29, 2008 by baphomet

[MORG]

It would most likely be indonesia! Their drug laws are far worse than ours and their intention would be to steal our land and resources not to free you from your victim complex thats for sure! In fact they have a scorched earth policy and couldn't care less about you, you would be killed because you are using up valuable oxygen and taking up too much space! To say that their military (The TNI) has a bad track record of human rights abuses is an understatement, the last documentary I saw about them they were cutting out still beating hearts and chunks of flesh, eyes and other organs and feeding it to their dogs among other things far too disturbing to mention. Many of our soldiers are racists and not very nice people I'm sure but I believe that in general they are more civilized and have a higher sense of morals than most people in many other countries! I could imagine groups of them carrying out summary executions perhaps, maybe rape but not the sort of things that the TNI do and certainly not on such a large scale.

Yeah watch out for those expansionistic Indonesians. They'll come in and take your drugs, women, land, eyeballs and organs away from you.

All armies do terrible things. It's the only Government sanctioned way to blow up and kill things. Just because Indonesia is a relatively corrupt country with a history or a badly behaved military (not uncommon in the world) doesn't mean their people would let their Government destroy us for the oxygen we breathe.

Have you met an Indonesian psychopath? Have you met a hyper-aggressive, xenophobic, violent Australian?

What a crock.

This is a nice way of saying that your views on this matter are offensive to me

[baphomet]

Yeah watch out for those expansionistic Indonesians. They'll come in and take your drugs, women, land, eyeballs and organs away from you.

All armies do terrible things. It's the only Government sanctioned way to blow up and kill things. Just because Indonesia is a relatively corrupt country with a history or a badly behaved military (not uncommon in the world) doesn't mean their people would let their Government destroy us for the oxygen we breathe.

Have you met an Indonesian psychopath? Have you met a hyper-aggressive, xenophobic, violent Australian?

What a crock.

This is a nice way of saying that your views on this matter are offensive to me

Aaaw did I hurt your feewings too?

You sarcastically speak of expansionistic Indonesians in an attempt to ridicule what I'm saying but I'm afraid you'll have to argue against countless national security advisors, millitary officials, etc. Fact is much of our airforce and military purchases have been made with just such an invasion in mind so you are ridiculing the people who have been assigned to make vital descisions about our national security, are we to believe that you know better?

It is plainly obvious that Indonesia greatly values its "territorial integrity" and feel that we threaten it from time to time and our relations with this country have been a little rocky to say the least. What of the 1975 invasion of East Timor by the TNI? I suppose all those dead Timorese people who were worried about Indonesia were just paranoid xenophobes were they?? All those people with Free Ache stickers on their cars just have them there as meaningless decorations do they? Indonesia is the most populous muslim nation in the world and Abu Bakar Bashir says that Australia will be a muslim country within 50 years! What happens when a more extreme islamic government takes control in indonesia?

Trying to ridicule my views and put me into some category like a xenophobe or whatever wont work because my concerns are not irrational as you would like to make out and are shared by far more knowledgeable, influential people than yourself!

"All armies do terrible things. It's the only Government sanctioned way to blow up and kill things."

Please name some of the atrocities that the Australian military has committed which compare to those committed by the TNI?

"Just because Indonesia is a relatively corrupt country with a history or a badly behaved military (not uncommon in the world) doesn't mean their people would let their Government destroy us for the oxygen we breathe."

No but maybe the land we stand on?

Edited August 29, 2008 by baphomet

[ThunderIdeal]

if humans don't learn to live peacefully soon i reckon australia will cop it sooner or later, probably from indonesia but that's merely conjecture without being clairvoyant. any number of countries could storm in here and kick our ass.

it won't be an easy country to capture, but think how easily a large force could knock out a few CBD's and we'd be up shit creek. i believe the australian army could harass invaders for years but it wouldn't matter in the end. militias here supposedly outweigh the military in manpower, but you have to seriously wonder if some hicks with rifles and fourbies would be able to stop organised, well-supplied invaders.

i see it more as a certainty if things continue the way they have been and the USA aren't going to help us.

[MORG]

Baph wins the award for most right-wing, mass-media-swallowing, Government-line-towing, good citizen yet to be hosted here on SAB. Tis a diverse community to be sure.

The just or unjust reluctance of Indonesia to relinquish disputed territories within its own recognised borders cannot be equated to invading a major Western nation with whom they have "bit rocky" relationship. That's a major leap you've made.

Abu Bakar Bashir doesn't speak for Indonesians or the Indonesian Government. Maybe you should speak to some Indonesian people as well as listening to the Minister for Defence and the ADF and Muslim extremist Clerics.

Eh, I don't want to engage in fervent argument over something this silly. My initial post was made on my belly already.

You carry on living in fear and I'll keep my rose-tinted lenses.

Edited August 29, 2008 by MORG

[Legba]

From...

INTERVIEW TO OUR VENERABLE MASTER SAMAEL AUN WEOR

Radio University (Radio Universidad)

Mexico 1977

Q – Master Samael Aun Weor, I would like you to tell us about the Law of SOLIOONENSIUS.

A – SOLIOONENSIUS is an interesting law.

It happens that close to our ORS Solar System, exists the BALEOOTO SUN – that belongs to a neighbor solar system.

Every now and then, this Sun will come close to our Solar System of ORS, increasing the electric tension (of our solar system of course)

and as a consequence, the whole humanity suffers a heightened psychosis and extreme nervousness. This causes an electro-biological

alteration in all living species and that triggers bloodshed and revolution; people revolt and disasters happen everywhere.

Let’s remember the French Revolution. It was caused because of SOLIOONENSIUS.

People revolted against Louis XVI and the guillotine took care of most of the nobles of that country – that was terrible!

The Russian Revolution of 1917 was another product of another SOLIOONENSIUS. Some Gnostic Masters were awaiting that SOLIOONENSIUS

and knew what would happen in Russia in 1917. Czar Nicolas’ head fell and the bolcheviques rose within the chaos…and there came the revolution.

Those SOLIOONENSIUS have always been terrible. There was another one in Egypt and a Pharaoh together with all his family died.

They were impaled with steel cables, and made a macabre necklace out of them. All the bodies were then thrown to the Nile. Very much

has been said about Pharaohs and their dynasties, but very little has been said of what has happened between dynasty and dynasty.

During one of those Egyptian SOLIOONENSIUS, a condition to become a Pharaoh was to have the most eyes (eyes of nobles) in avase. The one with

the most eyes would become Pharaoh. Think of what that meant!

Every time a SOLIOONENSIUS arrives in our world, things like these happen. That is the Lay of SOLIOONENSIUS; it is an electrical tension that causes

alterations to the electro-biological responses of humanity and as you can see, the result of these disorders is terrible.

Link

Perhaps war is inescapable for the masses and all the talk is simply wiseacring? Has anyone been in a situation where the crowd turned into a mob around them? Perhaps a fight starting at school when masses surround them to watch?

There is definitely something out of control when wars break out.

[ThunderIdeal]

not sure i can agree there legba. it can be strange how wars 'break out' but the tension is always there, and by tension i mean competition for power. you said yourself perhaps war is inescapable for the masses.

[baphomet]

Baph wins the award for most right-wing, mass-media-swallowing, Government-line-towing, good citizen yet to be hosted here on SAB.

Yea right.. don't forget xenophobic, psychopathic, etc. Are we handing out awards for whinging people who never seem to have any idea what they're on about? Cause your a serious contender!

"The just or unjust reluctance of Indonesia to relinquish disputed territories within its own recognised borders cannot be equated to invading a major Western nation with whom they have "bit rocky" relationship. That's a major leap you've made."

East Timor declared independence from Portugal in 1975, Indonesia saw the weakness of the newly independant nation and invaded 9 days later before the declaration of independance could be internationally recognized, slaughtering thousands of innocent people and declaring it as part of Indonesia. Likewise they colonised West Papua just as it was given independance by The Netherlands so don't talk to me about "relinquishing disputed territories". They have proven that if they see a weak spot and an opportunity to invade another country they will do it, what makes you think they won't do it to us if they think they can get away with it?

Indonesia and australia have nearly been at war several times so I am hardly making a leap. Indonesia and Australia once shared a common border (when Australia still retained control over new guinea). Australia despatched 3 RAR, 4 RAR, two SAS squadrons, artillery batteries, engineers and RAN ships to Malaysia during that time (1965-66). In 1965, 3 RAR had at least 4 skirmishes with Indonesian militias (TNI). In total 23 Australians died and 108 wounded in those operations, there have been countless other situations where diplomacy has JUST BARELY managed to prevent a war with indonesia, I just presumed you would know that I was being sarcastic when I said that our relationship with them was "a bit rocky to say the least".

I never said that we were going to be invaded by indonesia! That is a major leap that YOU made! I simply said that if we were ever invaded it would most likely be by indonesia.. you have just taken that and ran with it calling me a xenophobe and all kinds of other shit, snap out of it.

Edited August 29, 2008 by baphomet

[Hagakure]

if australia was under threat and the fight was justified then sure, i would fight. what would this world be like if no one stood up to the germans?

wouldnt fight in a war i objected to though.

edit: good to see others find the rebel group the sexier option in the poll. too many "tomorrow when the war began" readers perhaps.

Edited August 29, 2008 by Hagakure

[PhoenixSon]

You carry on living in fear and I'll keep my rose-tinted lenses.

I have my 2 cents to add, you can't fight for PEACE

Maybe it would be wise to try to defuse situations before reaching these stupid states.

Though even Buddha said there should be armies so as to try to dissuade other armies from entering.

[PhoenixSon]

Also by the way, when i used to work with some indo's, found out they fuckin hate us and think even worse about australia females (the ones i met anyway).

Might have to do with arrogance and us stealing there oil.

[baphomet]

Also by the way, when i used to work with some indo's, found out they fuckin hate us and think even worse about australia females (the ones i met anyway).

Might have to do with arrogance and us stealing there oil.

So we are arrogant because we occasionally work up enough balls to politely ask them to be a little more discreet about murdering innocent people? Seems to me like more misplaced guilt..

Are you sure that we stole their oil? I know we plundered Timor but I didn't know we stole indonesia's oil. Can you please tell me when this supposedly occurred?? Thanks.

Edited August 30, 2008 by baphomet

[Jesus On Peyote]

War is war, iv said this b4.

its in our blood,what we do. Imagine this, the usa (or any other country)becomes peaceful, gets rid of its nukes and halfs its army. all the people in the us turn to a 60s mentality and everything is peaceful.

Meanwhile, the people not too far who happen not to embrace this new and un naturalistic culture see it as a weakness and decide since that they dident get rid of their nukes, and they have an army of a a few 100k why not invade this peace loving nation witch no army? who is going to stop them?

There is always crazy people that get into politics to push for their own racist,imperialist, corporate, superiority complexities or whichever other interest they happen to be in. All it takes is a few people to turn a peace loving people into a warmongering people with a few cleaver tricks.

SO yes, war is shite, but it happens and everyone has to be ready for their DEFENSE.

Tho, on the other hand, another theory iv thought out lately is that maybe war is ment to happen.i mean most biological organisms fight, animals. maybe we must fight till there is just "one" left, thus unity = peace. but that is fascist type thinking. Plus, that can be done with diplomacy one would hope.

ED-

Are you sure that we stole their oil? I know we plundered Timor but I didn't know we stole indonesia's oil. Can you please tell me when this supposedly occurred?? Thanks.

For as long as we have been controlling the sea borders and access to oil that comes with it.

Edited August 30, 2008 by Jesus On Peyote

[Vertmorpheus]

Soon to be released....

The Big Book Of Sex... by A. Virgin

Good points though. I am still trying to work out how gun control has killed more people than gun culture, but anyway.

So, when ya signing up, baphomet? a cast n buffed unit like yourself would be best suited straight to Duntroon, don't want any residual respect from the enlisted types getting in the way of being all you can be

Maybe you could be our new Minister for Offense, and Dubious Opiate Factoids?

And how does your dad in ww2 have any bearing on gun proliferation and its bearing on social wellbeing and criminal activities NOW? Gun control isn't about "gerry on the beaches" or "johnny turk" its about trying to cut down how many ppl decide to shoot their ex wife and kids... shoot the local baker over the till... shoot the kid from up the road for being in their carport on a rainy night... shoot themselves by ACCIDENT because til recently many ppl just had guns tucked in here n there, not properly stored or secured. Kids accidentally shooting mates. Fuckwits running around earning us the dubious honour of Most Efficient Mass Murderer In a Single Afternoon.

Some of the most vehement supporters of gun legislation (and ours is pretty sensible really... you just need decent storage, club membership, and half a brain..oh, and you cant just have one bit of paper for two dozen rifles anymore... wow... and no semi autos you really dont need anyway... wow...HOW TOTALITARIAN!!! You mean I need a REASON to own a gun beyond paranoia and penis envy?very rude!) I know are returned service people, still serving service people, and people I would lovingly describe as "gun nut mountain men" who still understand that not everyone has the social conscience sufficient to handle such power. So what one RSP thinks has lil bearing on it, and you coming to agree with him doesnt mean any of us have to. Does it? MY dad is an RSP too, and he reckons gun laws are ok if a lil tedious at the start... so should everyone agree with him, and me? No. And I won't get mad as hell (while pretending I am not, of course) about it when they don't.

Seems like the only "totalitarian" approach to these issues is coming from the person who claims war and guns are the only defence against totalitarianism? Weird shit hey. We become what we fear, some say.

And is it just me or are some of the MOST oppressed and frequently chaotic parts of the world those with the most amount of ready to hand guns? Shouldnt they be the most quiet, sensible, civilised nations? Not places like... serbia... afghanistan... america... africa.... shouldn't more guns mean more peace? Hm? No, because it doesnt work that way, and a gun might be fine to take out the neighbours with but its lil good against an air strike, food blockades or rampant unchecked corruption and social illness... which are the new weapons of invasion and control. Rifles these days are just the dust pan and brush used to tidy up the ground afterwards.

Remember baphomet, your namesake is a being created to represent duality, flux, interplay of polar forces... hes not just some cunt with horns hey? Try a dash more coagula in your highly solvent delivery and people won't get pooey as much. I know you're too cool to care, just a pointer though. Our opinions matter none, which is why you read our replies hey?

btw, I once spoke to an indonesian who said he loved aussies (more than most western touristik types anyways) and as much as he loved his wife, always wanted a "nice tall aussie girl" as well... problem with hearsay and bloke-at-the-pubism, is it works in every and all directions. Dunno if basing foreign policy on rumour and whispers is that helpful. I know what some of us think about indos and THEIR womenfolk, too, if we want to get into that game. Or is paying a pittance to infect a 15 year old actually a token of respect? Ah, might be different hey...

VM

[MORG]

Yea right.. don't forget xenophobic, psychopathic, etc. Are we handing out awards for whinging people who never seem to have any idea what they're on about? Cause your a serious contender!

You mean whinging people who disagree with your caustically-delivered expressions of ego?

Just because you can deliver a two paragraph history lesson on Indonesian military history from the front of a Lonely Planet guide doesn't convince me you're an authority on this subject.

you have just taken that and ran with it calling me a xenophobe and all kinds of other shit, snap out of it.

Actually, I never called you a xenophobe. You did that yourself. See first quote. You took what I said and ran with it, snap out of it.

[Stinkmeat]

Getting back to the initial question......

I voted no and run and hide.

I don't think that I would physically or mentally be able to kill someone, and as MORG said

As far as I can see, if you're aiding someone to fight you're still fighting. So I may as well fight.

I don't think I would be knowingly able to support it either. So I would ideally run and hide in some remote part of the world where things would not effect me. That's only a theoretical response though. I don't think I would be able to survive on my own, let alone with a family, with the small amount of survival knowledge that I have. I still think I would rather die this way than in a war.

I would rather die for something than live for nothing.

I agree with half of what you are saying baphomet. I believe that dying for a cause that you strongly believe in is a noble act. But when it comes to killing for a cause, it's a whole different ball game. And I totally agree with shruman on this. The "psychological turmoil" would be far too much for me to handle. Then the suffering of the soldier/s that you killed, and his family all come into play. So it gets way too complicated. I'd just rather disappear from it all.

Stink

Edited September 5, 2008 by Stinkmeat

[baphomet]

"All it takes is a few people to turn a peace loving people into a warmongering people with a few cleaver tricks."

So true! "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities" - Voltaire

"maybe war is ment to happen"

I hope no one here would argue against the fact that the world is overpopulated? (please don't bother, just watch THIS) There are far too many people and the population can't keep increasing the way it is for very long, it's simple mathematics! I agree with my friend Mr Rosenkreutz who seems to think that we should "Maintain humanity under 500000000 in perpetual balance with nature and guide reproduction wisely". Whether you know it or not, whether you like it or not.. A LOT of people have to die very soon and if your greatest priority is the continuation of life on this planet and the evolution of mankind then IMO you can only view this as a necessary evil. No doubt much of this will be the result of natural disasters, viruses, etc, but it will at least in part be due to war & calculated genocide.

"Are you sure that we stole their oil? I know we plundered Timor but I didn't know we stole indonesia's oil. Can you please tell me when this supposedly occurred?? Thanks."

"For as long as we have been controlling the sea borders and access to oil that comes with it."

Can you please provide some evidence to support the fact (?) that we stole Indonesias oil? If we're all going to feel guilty about something it might as well be something we actually did don't you think?

Soon to be released....

The Big Book Of Sex... by A. Virgin

Please let us know when you find out the final release date.

"Maybe you could be our new Minister for Offense, and Dubious Opiate Factoids?"

Maybe you could point out what I have said about opiates that was dubious? But I highly doubt it..

"I am still trying to work out how gun control has killed more people than gun culture, but anyway."

I never said gun culture I said gun related crime, lets start with the 170,000,000 people who were killed by THEIR OWN government in the 20th century, thanks largely to gun control. How many were killed as a result of gun related crime?

"And how does your dad in ww2 have any bearing on gun proliferation and its bearing on social wellbeing and criminal activities NOW?"

The point was not that he was in WW2 it was what he learned from WW2, his point is still just as valid today if not more so!

"Gun control isn't about "gerry on the beaches" or "johnny turk" its about trying to cut down how many ppl decide to shoot their ex wife and kids..."

How do you know? What do you really know of the agenda behind gun control??

"And is it just me or are some of the MOST oppressed and frequently chaotic parts of the world those with the most amount of ready to hand guns? Shouldnt they be the most quiet, sensible, civilised nations? Not places like... serbia... afghanistan... america... africa...."

You failed to take into consideration who's hands the guns are in, the oppressors or the oppressed. Take Africa for example, what do you think happened before the massacre in Rwanda? Or in Uganda?? The guns were preemptively taken from the victims, same as almost every other genocide in history!

"a gun might be fine to take out the neighbours with but its lil good against an air strike, food blockades or rampant unchecked corruption"

lol, I think it is the best solution for corruption, as for an air strike, you can't conquer a country without men on the ground with guns and you can't swat a blowfly with a sledgehammer! It is impossible to defeat an insurgency with airstrikes!!

"Remember baphomet, your namesake is a being created to represent duality, flux, interplay of polar forces...

Not sure if that is exactly what it's supposed to represent but I think I am bringing a little duality to this forum, it doesn't sound quite so much like a sheep station anymore and even if everyone sees me as an asshole who has to disagree with everything, its well worth it.

"Our opinions matter none, which is why you read our replies hey?"

I never said that and I'm sorry that you feel that way, I enjoy reading your posts! Your witty sarcasm often makes me laugh

"You mean whinging people who disagree with your caustically-delivered expressions of ego?"

No I mean whinging people who "find my views offensive" and don't seem to know what they're talking about.

"Just because you can deliver a two paragraph history lesson on Indonesian military history from the front of a Lonely Planet guide doesn't convince me you're an authority on this subject."

No it doesn't, but it does prove that you didn't know what you were talking about! thanks lonely planet

"Actually, I never called you a xenophobe. You did that yourself. See first quote. You took what I said and ran with it, snap out of it. slap.gif slap.gif"

I'm sorry if that was not what you intended to suggest.

Edited September 6, 2008 by baphomet

[paradox]

Also by the way, when i used to work with some indo's, found out they fuckin hate us and think even worse about australia females (the ones i met anyway).

Might have to do with arrogance and us stealing there oil.

so a couple of people you met didn't like Australians. you're generalizing just a bit don't you think?

one of my friends is Indonesian, he's married to an aussie girl & most of his friends are Australian. so I found out that THEY really fuckin like us & LOVE australian females. so which one is it?

[Jungle John]

Yea right.. Earnest Hemingway was a vile disgusting man who promoted cruelty to animals, I would gladly wage war to rid the world of people like him!

i would always run and hide for that is more real a freedom then staying to fight and taking someone elses, or dying in servitude.

There's a word for that, its called cowardice! I have convictions so strong that I live for them and would gladly die for them, in fact I have no higher aspiration than this. I believe that we should aim to minimise innocent suffering in the world as much as possible both human and non human and would gladly kill to do this. I can assure you I would feel nothing of the "psychological turmoil" that shruman speaks of. If you do not have such beliefs then I pity you because to me your life is largely inconsequential and meaningless and I think you will come to realise this before it is over. I would rather die for something than live for nothing. I will raise my children to think the same way!

[sharxx101]

Going off the topic a bit. But heres my 2 cents. The only real winners in wars are the people who fund it and weapons contractors / markers. War develops technologies and give goverments an excuse to spend all the countrys money on defence and weapons. I read somewhere that america spend a few trillion dollars on defence ever year with the numbers rising. Goverments arm themselves against it citizens! Wars are planned so people can profit from them. I wouldnt fight in any bullshit war. You can never believe what you hear from the media and other tyrants that profit off war, Say NO to war and just defend your self when needed be.