Marijuana Withdrawal

[MindExpansion]

Conan, I still think the mj alone is probably very addcitive, not saying you were suggesting it wasnt, no doubt adding tobacco doesnt help but the MJ isn't innocent on the charge of addiction.

Peace,

Mind

[Conan Troutman]

Conan, I still think the mj alone is probably very addcitive, not saying you were suggesting it wasnt, no doubt adding tobacco doesnt help but the MJ isn't innocent on the charge of addiction.

Peace,

Mind

as far as 'addiction' goes nicotine is number one, beat every thing hands down...

IMO the major contributing factor is the tobacco mix?

get yourself free of nicotine and then try quiting, see if you notice the difference??

easy.

[baphomet]

as far as 'addiction' goes nicotine is number one, beat every thing hands down...

So it's more addictive than methodone, heroin, benzodiazapines, crack cocaine, etc then is it?

EDIT: I do agree to some extent with your point that nicotine makes smoking dope a great deal more addictive but I'm not sure I agree with that last statement.

And BTW When I used to try to quit smoking dopeI used to pace around the house unable to sleep smoking ridiculous amounts of cigarettes and TOBACCO BONGS and still withdrew from marijihuana all the same! While part of the addiction is the nicotine rush from the bong it is completely seperate from the withdrawals from the marijihuana, if this wasn't so then tobacco bongs would take away the withdrawals instantly! (which they don't!).

Edited July 7, 2008 by baphomet

[chilli]

Never could stand fouling the taste and effects of the pot with tobacco, but I only tried it like that a couple of times when I was a kid... I only smoked ciggys from 14-18 and quit without thinking about it.

My littlest bro reckons he couldn't give it up after smoking for less than a year, and my Mum and mother-in-law started smoking in their forties, and reckon they are addicts, even though one smokes a handful of 2mg a day and the other just bum-puffs!

My father in law/stepdad smoked a pack a day for 20 years or so, and then just quit when his mate got throat cancer... he also claims to have had difficulties for a couple of days only. Same thing with my real dad, but after smoking for 35 years.

My other little bro is off the herb for a bit at the moment after fairly regular use (for him) as well, and has been having similar symptoms to mine, although somewhat milder. I read a thread the other day where a shitload of people had the same symptoms after stopping heavy use, and others who piped in to assure them it was all in their head because they didn't experience the same thing.

Years of dealing with an ever-shifting constellation of depression, generalized anxiety and panic disorder with and without the aid of drugs, as well as seeing many family members and friends who range from chronic substance abusers to those who have never experimented with drugs at all deal with various mental illnesses and personality disorders has taught me that mental strength, willpower, physiology, genetics, lifestyle childhood experiences all play a part, and when we focus on one to the detriment of others we are usually making a mistake.

Being married to a very compassionate and knowledgeable GP for a wife has helped too... congratulations to us for just on 7 years of a usually happy, ever progressing and always worthwhile marriage!

Doesn't it just make you want to vomit?

*edit* As long as I'm getting all preachy and shit, if anyone is going to quit anything, think about making it tobacco. Statistically you're taking 15 years off your life, could be a lot more if you're an individual and not a statistic, plus you're greatly increasing your chances of dying a very horrible death... all for a stupid little nicotine buzz, no insight, no visions, no ethereal bliss!

Edited July 7, 2008 by Sublime Crime

[Conan Troutman]

So it's more addictive than methodone, heroin, benzodiazapines, crack cocaine, etc then is it?

yes

SC: I think youll manage to battle it out

[Conan Troutman]

yes

and funny you got the urge to smoke baccy bongs

SC: I think youll manage to battle it out

[ballzac]

I mixed tobacco with my marijuana for a long time. I wanted to stop tobacco first, mainly for the reasons that Sublime mentions. I found the nicotine a non-issue while I was still smoking the green, apart from just getting over the strangeness of smoking a cone without getting a nicotine rush, and that only lasted for the first few cones, and then I was used to it.

Then quitting weed was the hard part. I've also quit weed when I've still been a tobacco smoker, and found that it was still really difficult and I just made myself sick with baccys (another reason to quit the baccy first). When my ex-girlfriend got pregnant (when I was with her), I quit weed and baccy at the same time to support her doing the same (which turned out to be a big joke because I was the only one to quit anything). Anyway, I never found the baccy caused me any problems then either, it was all the usual symptoms from the weed.

I understand the feeling of a craving for nicotine, but I've never been able to pin it down. With weed withdrawel I can feel my body and say my skin is all clammy. I can try to eat and realise I feel too sick. I can spend all night trying to get to sleep and conclude that I am suffering from insomnia. With nicotine there is none of that, it is just a vague feeling that I wan't a cigarette. Yes, it is a powerfully compelling feeling, but it is vague none the less. If you sit down and try to figure out what is happening to your body or mind that is so unpleasant the you really need to make it stop, it is impossible. I think it is the relentless nature of this vague feeling that is what makes people find it hard to quit. It can be a bit like chinese water torture. But when you actually get to the point where you are going to light up, it you sit down and think about what unpleasant symptoms that you are experiencing that you want to get rid of, I think you will find that you cannot pinpoint anything specific, and it kind of makes smoking to make it go away seem less urgent.

[MindExpansion]

Hey SC, congrats on the 7 years man.

With the invention of that nifty e-cigarette IMO smokes should now be banned, the revenue lost from banning cigs would probs almost be made up by the decline in health care needs, but I could and probably am totally wrong, I could go and research it...but im on holidays so not today.

Conan, why do you think nicotine is more addictive than opioids etc? Not saying your wrong, I have no idea, just asking out of curiosity.

Ahh @ ballzac, smoking cigs during pregnancy = vezy bad news. Not layin on a guilt trip, not on you anyway its hardly your fault, but for everyone else, if i spent 20 mins typing up all the negative effects of smoking cigs on pregnancy, you would all make sure you and the partner quit completely before even seeking to get pregnant. But again im on holidays so maybe another time when i have more time, doesnt that sound odd, im on holidays so i have less time than normal?

Peace,

Mind

[baphomet]

So it's more addictive than methodone, heroin, benzodiazapines, crack cocaine, etc then is it?

yes

How did you reach this conclusion? .. Let me guess ... You read it somewhere??

[Legba]

OneDoctor's Survey

of Health Officials

on the Inherent Addictiveness

of Six Commonly Used Drugs

Health officials were asked to put aside social as well as economic pressures such as drug availability or acceptability and to evaluate the inherent addictive potential of the following six drugs.

Relative Addictiveness of Common Drugs

(100=Most Addictive; 0=Least)

Drug Rating

Nicotine 99

Alcohol 81

Heroin 80

Cocaine (Nasal) 71

Caffeine 70

Marijuana 22

Conclusion:

(1) The most addictive drug, nicotine, is not only not scheduled, it can be purchased without a prescription by anyone over the age of 18.

(2) Cocaine is about as addictive as coffee or tea's caffeine.

(3) Alcohol is about as addictive as heroin.

Source Data:

Reformatted from the book The Chemistry of Mind-Altering Drugs by Daniel M. Perrine, Ph.D., Associate Professor of Chemistry at Loyola College, Baltimore, Maryland. Published by the American Chemical Society, Washington D.C., 1997.*

[nabraxas]

How did you reach this conclusion? .. Let me guess ... You read it somewhere??

i have known a fair few junkies. Most ov them smoked cigarettes. Most ov them wanted to quit both. Some ov them managed to quit heroin. Only a couple managed to quit heroin & cigarettes.

[ballzac]

i have known a fair few junkies. Most ov them smoked cigarettes. Most ov them wanted to quit both. Some ov them managed to quit heroin. Only a couple managed to quit heroin & cigarettes.

There are many factors at play though. The social stigma, immediate thread to life and livelihood, etc. can make for much more compelling reasons to quit heroin. And yes, I'm sure these people wanted to quit both, but when it comes to the crunch, there are a lot more reasons to quit heroin.

[baphomet]

Cocaine is about as addictive as coffee or tea's caffeine... Alcohol is about as addictive as heroin.

The guy who did this survey probably had a few letters after his name so it must be true! Let's forget about common sense and our own personal experiences as well as those of countless others around the world and just take his word for it!

According to this survey alcohol is actually MORE addictive than heroin... sure that makes sense!

Edited July 9, 2008 by baphomet

[AndyAmine.]

Well, I would say alcohol is more addictive than heroin but heroin is more addicting than alcohol.

What I mean is that IMO, generally speaking, heroin is by far easier to become addicted to than alcohol but once addicted alcohol is a stronger addiction than heroin and the withdrawals much more severe.

[nabraxas]

There are many factors at play though.

Agreed.

But i would imagine that if heroin was so amazingly addictive then the folks who managed to give it up would have less trouble giving up cigarettes.

That doesn't seem to be the case.

I think Andy got it exactly right.

[ballzac]

Well, I would say alcohol is more addictive than heroin but heroin is more addicting than alcohol.

What I mean is that IMO, generally speaking, heroin is by far easier to become addicted to than alcohol but once addicted alcohol is a stronger addiction than heroin and the withdrawals much more severe.

Spot on. Cold turkey from alcohol addiction can easily kill a person and is never recommended for someone with a serious addiction. They treat heroin addiction with naltrexone which forces an accelerated cold turkey.

However, if we all used heroin in the amounts that we all probably drink, most of us would probably be addicted.

[AndyAmine.]

Agreed.

But i would imagine that if heroin was so amazingly addictive then the folks who managed to give it up would have less trouble giving up cigarettes.

That doesn't seem to be the case.

I think Andy got it exactly right.

Yeah thats pretty much true but then if smack was as easily available, widely used and as socially accepted as cigarettes then it may be another story all together..

Plus if you have been a heroin user then the addictive flood gates have been opened (or were already) and your more than likely to always look for a crutch even if its just ciggies, so I think that has a lot to do with it.

I have to say though, as much as I hate the stuff if I never got onto Methadone I think there is a good chance I would no doubt still be or would have died an heroin (or similar) user, or be in gaol.

[chilli]

Man this sucks balls.

The last few days the anxiety, nausea and aches chills etc have been better and more manageable, but there's been an increase in depression, unbidden thoughts of suicide, mood swings, irritability etc. I've been losing weight, and was the lightest I can remember since I was 21 this morning (I'm 30 now)... so of course now I'm worrying about cancer or other horrible diseases, and having a lot of health anxiety/hypochondria.

To top it off, all sorts of random crazy shit is coming at me from all angles, eg. my cats are acting all feral, one of them sauntered up and pissed on my bed when i woke up this morning! I feel really bad because I ditched him into the laundry and he doesn't usually do anything like that. Got into another bout of cat bashing lastnight because the big aggressive one was stomping all over the place and being very demanding... he also was thrown into the laundry, after kicking me in the face and nearly taking my only good eye out.

My family back in Perth has gone haywire again, and they are all very needy and draining, despite the fact I'm in another country. My little nephew, who we just sent off to his Dad's after living here for the last 6 months got mauled by one of their dogs in the head. We couldn't contact his Mum, and when we finally did all the cunts over there are getting all high and mighty and saying nasty shit about us, when all we have done is try and be compassionate and help when help is asked for.

I am forcing food down my gullet in an attempt to put some weight back on, so I can stop worrying about cancer, which is making me feel sick again. The food is like ashes in my mouth. I know two guys around my age who got Leukemia recently, one of them is dead already the other one's just hanging on... big, strong guys, one of them was a cop.

It's just stupid random shit, but my coping mechanisms are way down.

I don't want to take any anti-depressants, took them years ago and hated it, but at this rate I may have to.

Thanks for listening.

[/VENT]

[JDanger]

Stay strong, space man.

[coin]

have you ever worked with a counselor before?

[MindExpansion]

As long as you can make yourself realise that your fears relating to cancer etc are more than likely all in your head, of course if they really start getting to you go and see your doc, they can get you scanned and checked, that will give you peace of mind, and at the same time you could talk to them about whats goin on in your head and your life, they can really help if you give them the chance and if you have a good doctor. They may or may not recommend anti-depressents and that may be the way to go particularly with thoughts of suicide coming into it.

Peace and luck,

Mind

[divinersage]

I feel like i dont "deserve" to post in this thread due to the fact that i'm a youngin and havn't really been addicted to anything for more than a year or two ( nicotine ). BUT i need to know how one goes about deciding when they are "addicted" to a specific substance?

I have been smoking cannabis since i was around 13-14 and i don't doubt for a second it has caused many complications

in my life. I've been wanting to stop smoking for along time now, and have been urged to do so by my pyschologist for around 6 months, but every time i attempt, i quit for anywhere between 3 days - 3 weeks

but always end up going back to my regular smoking routine if not at an increased amount.

IMO this makes me addicted? but scared to through the word around so willy-nilly as i know next to nothing when it comes to

substance abuse/addiciton.

When i do stop smoking for the duration i get the nausea that alot of people prior to this post have reported,

I also feel alot more "down" ( dont want to use the word depressed, TBH dont know if it fits the description)

and i suffer an extremely negative thought process and my motivation for anything especially music/school

is destroyed.

i guess what im really trying to ask/say is

*Am i addicted to MJ?

*are these symptons from MJ and/or something else?

*what can i do to help motivate myself to stop?

thanks for reading and putting up with my most probably im-mature winge

[Legba]

mj isn't addictive.

[MindExpansion]

Sorry Legba, going to disagree with you on that.

@ Diviners, I'd say there's a fair chance that you are, addiction can be defined in may different ways, I've heard it said that it is a habbit that has some negative effect on you or your life. I also think the inability/difficulty of completely quitting is a sign of addiction. I personally believe addiction doesn't have to mean really regular use, even if you smoke only on weekends but every weekend, if then sitting through a weekend without smoking makes you feel a bit off, I'd consider that addiction, while I'm sure some wouldn't.

Also, that feeling a little 'down' is probably depression to some degree if it is relatively regular.

There is a widespread misconception that if you have depression you would no doubt KNOW that it was depression, this is not true, you probably won't know, you may recognise something is wrong or you may not realise that there has been a change and may feel that you had always felt that way.

This misconception that self-diagnosis is possible needs to be slashed because it means that those who do think they just feel down and not clinically depressed, won't go and seek help.

Your psychologist would be able to answer the questions about depression or they may refer you to a psychiatrist for some tests and either of them would be able to discuss addiction with you, I think you should talk to the psychologist and you have to make the assessment of what MJ is to you, why you use, if you are making the choice anymore (that will be the hard one to be honest about) and discuss these questions with your psychologist.

Peace and luck with it mate.

Mind

Edited July 10, 2008 by MindExpansion

[chilli]

Thanks coin, yes I've been to see counselors and psychiatrists before, the trouble is they are all mostly stupider than me... I'm in NZ after all, and the brain drain hasn't exactly been kind to the mental health field here. I saw a good psychiatrist who did counseling in Perth, and when we get back over there may catch up, but I feel very selfish paying someone $200 an hour to tell me I'm okay, especially when I can just get on here and rant for a while for free ;)

MindExpansion, my wife is a GP, so she is usually my first port of call, I should really be seeing my own and may go in for some blood tests this week, just for reassurance. I'm okay, and it's only been a week without the stuff so far, and actually I was using pretty heavily and there has been a lot of other stresses just lately, so all this is easily explainable, but it doesn't make it any easier to bear. I actually broke down tonight when she came home, I've had a horrible 24 hours, and all this lame crap from my childhood etc came flooding out, it was very cathartic. I'm trying to see the positives, reminding myself this will pass as it has done before and looking for the good, and I think there is a lot to be found. I recently read something by Thomas Merton along the lines of "whenever we face difficulties or have questions, God is leading us to find something we need in him"

I really don't want to kill myself, it's just that the thoughts come into my head... actually fear of death is at the root of a lot of my anxiety. Don't worry, I'm not going to do anything like that, it's just a stupid symptom.

Legba, that's what I thought for many years, it's what they taught us in school etc. I think it's an obsolete idea though, as a lot of newer research and anecdotal evidence definitely indicates that it is addictive for many heavy users. It's been quite funny reading hundreds of posts by people who are suffering classic withdrawal symptoms after stopping years of continual use, then some knob pipes up with "it's all in ur mindz idi0ts, MJ is not addictive"

Multiple links to research indicating that it in fact can be, as well as the testimonies of the people they are contradicting don't seem to dissuade these kind of people, who seem so enamored of their own particular opinions and experiences that they are unable to entertain the idea that someone else's may be very different.

I just can't be bothered putting up links and shit, but look into it for yourself (hint google "marijuana withdrawal") and please give some kind of explanation for your bare assertions next time if you want to be taken seriously.

*edit* maybe you were joking?

Edited July 10, 2008 by Sublime Crime