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Marijuana Withdrawal

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Around the time Jono quit pot, I started using it again, after a break of about three and a half years... in the past, I've had some pretty major anxiety and panic which has sometimes been related to marijuana use, sometimes to discontinuation of use, and often external and psychological stresses.

I had a panic attack last week, which I attributed to the leadup to my young nephew leaving to go back to Australia, after we had cared for him for about six months, and due to how I was feeling I started cutting back on my use of pot, which had been generally two or three smallish sessions a day. One of the main reasons I was using it so frequently was that it helped ease my feelings of nausea and anxiety, providing a general sense of well-being. Sometimes I think what I feel like when a bit high must be what healthy minded people feel like naturally!

So I'd been cutting back in amounts and frequency over the last week or so, but yesterday was the first day I hadn't used any at all, and the nausea I faced upon waking this morning was almost unbearable, much worse than it usually is when I am not using marijuana. I wondered if it was due to the background anxiety and was more apparent because I was no longer treating it with pot, but I have just read a few pages that say nausea is often actually a positive symptom of withdrawal from regular cannabis use... I expected some increased anxiety and irritability, insomnia, etc, but had never attributed nausea to withdrawal in the past, as it has been something I have had my whole adult life to some degree, especially in the morning.

Has anyone else experienced particularly strong nausea after discontinuing use, and if so did you find anything that helped? I've been hitting it with ginger tablets, peppermint tea, eating something small before I get out of bed etc, which all help marginally. Actually I've found that when I lie back down and start to drift back to sleep, the nausea fades away almost completely, but unfortunately I can't do that all day! I heard small bouts of exercise may help, but it's snowing here at the moment, which makes it kind of difficult.

I just took .5mg of lorazepam, but I don't want to use it regularly, as the addiction to that stuff is a lot uglier!

Your thoughts, experiences, encouragements and tauntings are all welcome.

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I'm assuming that falls into the 'taunting' category, but that is why I didn't use the term withdrawal, I know it's a bit controversial amongst hardcore pot heads ;)

Sounds like only maybe 20% of regular users experience serious effects due to 'discontinuation,' probably those who are already prone to severe anxiety.

*edit* I know peeps who don't experience withdrawal from heavy opiate use either, so I've concluded that opiate addiction is just due to having a weak mind.

Edited by Sublime Crime

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isn't it always the way, one quits and another resumes (seriously)

mate it's pretty ordinary advice, but i'd avoid regular use (advice i only wish i could live by)

if by nausea you mean a rotten feeling around the upper solar plexus area, then i get it pretty badly. presumably a side effect of smoking so i dunno if you'd get that with your vapouriser. anyway, it goes away after the first bong (ish), or if i quit.

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Anyone who thinks marijihuana is not phisically addictive is wrong, probably due to inexperience! Everyone I know who stops smoking after heavy long term use suffers night sweats, insomnia & irritability at the very least and it has always surprised me that it was the official conclusion of medical science up until fairly recently!

I don't remember nausea as such but I did get sort of an acidy feeling in my stomach in the morning and couldn't eat untill I had a smoke, likewise I was totaly fucked for days when I stopped smoking, couldn't sleep, sweating, depression and a weak shivery feeling as if I was coming down with the flu, the withdrawals were very real and were not psychosomatic!

If you are suffering from nausea, would it be safe to guess that you have been prescribed a lot of antibiotics over the years? If so get some kefir grains, talk to my mate Dom http://users.sa.chariot.net.au/~dna/kefirpage.html

"I've concluded that opiate addiction is just due to having a weak mind."

Careful who you say that too, some people will rip your fucking head off if you said that to their face! And needless to say you are wrong!! It is a very serious physical addiction not just a psychological one! Heroin and other opiates effect people differently, some people only get a runny nose and feel a little weak when withdrawing but that is rare, these people often have a low tolerance and go on the nod much more easily, IMO the people who are at the worst risk of serious physical addiction to opiates are the people who become hyperactive when they use!

When you say that you know people who don't get withdrawals from heavy opiate use I don't believe them, their definition of heavy opiate use probably amounts to slightly exceeding the recommended dose of panadine fort a couple of times!

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Thanks Thunder, I'm kind of an all or nothing person I guess... when I'm using it, it's more like medication, and I like to get a bit of tolerance so I can be slightly high all the time but still function normally, I don't really like getting massively tripped out from pot much anymore.

By nausea I mean full on nausea like people get when they have a stomach bug or coming up on cactus or something, like I said it's been something I've experienced since I was a teenager, probably due to fluctuating levels of generalized anxiety, and the concomitantly poor sleeping and eating routines.

I think it's particularly bad at the moment because there is a confluence of various factors compounding the anxiety, which also usually makes the nausea worse, but I was interested to find that many people who have not experienced nausea like I have also experience it when discontinuing pot, which makes me think that it may be an actual positive symptom, rather than just stopping of the anti-emetic effect of pot.

I've been easing off, but I wonder of I'm still moving a bit fast, maybe a little session every couple of days will help to ease the transition?

Baphomet, I was being completely sarcastic! Of course opiates are addictive, but some people experience this a lot more strongly than others. What I meant was that we should be careful about projecting our own experiences onto others, and devaluing their particular mind/body makeup... something which you ironically seem in danger of doing! :) I do believe my friends, mostly because I trust them completely, but also because of their wide experience with all sorts of drugs, including opiates... but I should point out that the discussion was about opium, not heroin... and again, I was being sarcastic!

I've never really used anti-biotics, as I've not really had any bacterial infections since I was 11, but nausea is a pretty common symptom of generalized anxiety disorder, which I definitely deal with, but I was wondering if it was being exacerbated by quitting pot, and a bit more reading about others' experiences seems to confirm this.

Thanks guys for your feedback, I really appreciate them, even the smartarse one... I think CT was just joking, as I credit him with more intelligence than that and he used a winky smiley.

We seriously need a sarcasm smiley Torsten, before one of these junkies tries to rip my head off!

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Anyone who thinks marijihuana is not phisically addictive is wrong, probably due to inexperience! Everyone I know who stops smoking after heavy long term use suffers night sweats, insomnia & irritability at the very least and it has always surprised me that it was the official conclusion of medical science up until fairly recently!

Totally agree with you. When I was a heavy smoker I would not be able to sleep, sometimes 48hrs+ at a time. I would get the night sweats. And I would have a general feeling of not being comfortable. I did get a kind of nausea, but it was not like it would make me spew, it just made food less appetising, and seemed to be part of the general uncomfortable feeling. Withdrawel from marijuana is among the worst experiences I have ever had, and the chronic part (as described above) lasted a couple of weeks, with the psychological effects lasting about six weeks, and not feeling entirely normal for at least 6 months. This is one of the main reasons that I no longer smoke.

One of the reasons I think many chronic smokers do not realise they are physically addicted, is because the symptoms seem to peak at about 72 hours after last use. So after the effects of the marijuana have worn off, there is a period where they are neither stoned nor suffering serious withdrawel. There is however a strong desire to smoke, and most chronic smokers will manage to get their fix within a day or two and do not ever experience the serious withdrawel. I have also known a lot of people that claim it is not addictive, but they get extremely cranky without it. And if it isn't addictive, why do so many people have so much trouble giving up? In fact, I would bet that those who do manage to kick it, are generally the ones who acknowledge that there are serious withdrawel symptoms. I mean, you can't change it if you don't acknowledge it.

I never got any withdrawel symptoms from tobacco, and I think nicotine addiction is a joke compared with marijuana addiction.

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It's definitely different for different people, one of my younger brothers smokes it up more than I do for months at a time, then just stops using it when he needs to go and lead expeditions and stuff, he just hangs out for a smoke for a few days but no serious symptoms at all, the other one hasn't been able to quit for years despite wanting to... I think I fall in the middle somewhere.

Can anyone say from experience whether having a little bit spaced out by a couple of days will ameliorate the symptoms, or just make them last longer?

Edited by Sublime Crime

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I'd suggest benzos for the first few days. I had pretty bad withdrawals, but they lasted only three days. You won't get addicted that quickly. Use for a week if necessary and only when it gets bad. It's best to crush a pill and mix it with some warm water for quick absorption.

Stay strong man! It will only make you tougher :D

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keep plugging away at it SC.

i definately dont feel any 'SANER" for having quit the ganja. all the anxiety, self doubt, and depression that i have naturally returned, that that i have self medicated with ganja for 12 or so years. But i have been/ am dealing with it. probably for the first time in my life, ive actually squared up to it and seen/experienced my mental health as it actually is, which at first was terrifying, but now off the ganj i can really see where ive erred, and have kinda drawn conclusions from the mistakes ive made, so hopefully not to make them again. seemed to be a pattern running throughout the time i smoked, i just made the same mistakes over and over and over again!!!!

i know the morning nausea u pay mention of, the mornings upon waking is when my anxiety,self doubt and depression (r they all the same thing, i dunno....) is at its worse.(hence bringing nausea) Lying in bed and willing urself back to sleep (so easy to do!!! especially when confronted with ones demons.) seems to only hand over more power to ur anxiety/demons in my experience. dont get me wrong i still have those mornings where i do give in and lay there in all my self loathing and anxiety, but it really doesnt help)

best thing ive found to do is when u wake up, drag urself out of bed and drink a large glass of h20.

then i do some yoga nidra. meditation has been very important for me for calming my mind first thing in the morning. when u wake, get up, no matter how hard it it, drink a large glass of H20 then lay on the floor and practice some yoga nidra. has worked for me. basically relasing all the tension(negative energy) from ur mind and body and pulling in positive energy(white light) hippy crap maybee bu has worked for me.

once ive calmed down the nausea disappears.

i recommend tulsi tea (holy basil) check ur natural foods stores or buy online.

i dunno what it is about this stuff but its great for combatting nervous tension.

TORSTEN CAN U GET ANY ACCESS TO FRESH STUFF?

the tea bags i get have been packed like a year and a half ago. my guess is fresh material would increasethe effects ten fold.

if anyone has any seed could they please pm me?

bit of exercise, good healthy food , but most of all its the processing of the information contained within ur anxiety, discarding that which is of no use, negative and debilitating, and embracing the lessons. and no one can do it but you.

oh yeah, and if u get cravings , klins instant kava is grouse, and if u have trouble sleeping torstens zonk is excellent, just as good as loraz i reckon and u dont get addicted, well i didnt anyways.

if u would like some yoga nidra recordings shoot me a pm.

hope a smidgin of that made sense, typin this while im awaiting a plane.

good on u kikin the erb' for a while. sayin this i look forward to my next spliff or bong, i really love the stuff, i just want to be mentally well before i do so!!!!

edit- i dunno how u feel about it, but would u consider councilling? sometimes its great just to let rip to a total stranger, and these guys are trained in the field.

ive had a good experience using one here locally, its been really beneficial for me.

just another idea.

Edited by incognito

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Withdrawls to me seem to be more physical for some and more mental for others, even the cravings are part of it, I love hearing friends say 'I could quit whenever I want' then they say they are going to stop, even for just a month, and are smoking by the end of the week and invariably they deny that they couldn't resist but rather say they could've stopped, they just changed their mind about wanting to.

Stay strong, weaning yourself off may work or it may just make you take up daily habitual use again, cold turkey may be the answer, I know it seems like a bit of a dumb suggestion but friends found that having a few beers at night killed cravings, if you already do that or perhaps used heavier than the guys im talking about then that may not work for you. I'd really try and avoid using other things (including alc) if possible to kill your cravings but to treat the withdrawls I suppose the standard meds to treat your symptoms, dont use sleep meds and shit to cure any insomnia though, that shit, IMO isn't good for you and isnt the same as a natural nights sleep. Also, you say you've been plagued by this nausea for a while, havey ou seen a doctor? Might be an ulcer, get any crampy pain or any other gastrointestinal/lower abdominal symptoms?

Hope you can get through, you might find that the anxiety you describe has been caused by the buds and you may be better off in the mind and body for discontinuing use.

Peace,

Mind

Edited by MindExpansion

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totally agree also, it can be addictive, and in some cases very addictive.

When i was a daily smoker, if i stoped for a day, i was really shitty, nauseous to the point of not eating nearly anything, and all around Fked up. I always here people saying its not addictive but like ballzy said, there the ones that probably go back in within a few days (the kind of people that say they can quit, but dont want/need to).

I just toughed it out mainly, whenever if felt really bad, i went and got me some codeine,(which for some reason helps with my nausea) and all round mood, just got to make sure you remember your using as an aid and not to get too into it as it can be addictive also,just when you need it. (help for me anyways)

From my experience, spacing it out can work, but it depends on how fast you want to quit it. and there is also the factor that you might just forget your trying to quit and just keep smoking.

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so are you still sticking it out? : )

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I never got any withdrawel symptoms from tobacco, and I think nicotine addiction is a joke compared with marijuana addiction.

Ha...a joke for you maybe...for me, after 20 years ov smoking between 2 to 5 grams daily i gave up MJ with hardly any trouble... i have no real desire to smoke MJ at all anymore. But giving up cigarettes was insanely difficult & even 2 years later i still get really strong cravings.

When i did give up MJ i got abit restless & found it harder to sleep for maybe a month or so, but that was about it; no nausea.

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I totally know what your going through...

I have nausea right when I first wake up many mornings as well (has been this way all my life, drugs or no drugs)

The only way to get though the withdrawns (and yes, they are REAL) is to just not smoke, they only last 3-5 days, 7 days at the MAX.

Working out, mint, ginger and some kinda herb to smoke on (just not the herb) like lotus or pedicularius (Indian Warrior) are nice to smoke before you go to sleep or whenever you get that craving, Latuca "Lettuce Opium" is nice too.

One thing that actually helped me alot was talking about on the forums, when I'm really stressed I tend to post alot because it takes my mind off of w/e is bothering me...

I've experienced since I was a teenager, probably due to fluctuating levels of generalized anxiety, and the concomitantly poor sleeping and eating routines.

Dude you sound just like me... my eating habits are so fucked up... I don't eat all morning (cause the weird nausous feeling) then I fucking gorge myself at night.... can't be good for me...

Edited by Teotz'

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I personally think that weaning doesn't work, and these things need to be done like taking off a band aid. Many people claim to the contrary while they are attempting it themselves, but I've never seen it work with any drug. That doesn't mean it never works, and there is plenty of anecdotal evidence to suggest that it does, but whenever someone tells me that they are weaning themselves off a drug and it is working, they never actually seem to get to the point where they are no longer using the drug at all before they go back to using it lots. So I would say that although it can be successful, it is seldom successful.

I have found for me the only way to quit a drug is to stop using it. Pretty simple really, and you can't get confused about what your intentions are or how you execute your plan. If you use the drug, it is going against what you are trying to do...simple! Weaning can get pretty confusing as you may not be sure about how much you should be having, and eventually, you end up needing to stop altogether anyway or it defeats the purpose of what you are trying to do.

I should really apologise for generalising so much earlier. Obviously a lot of people find quitting weed not that hard, and a lot of people find quitting nicotine to be very difficult. Everyone is different.

I agree that with teotz' that working out is good. In fact any strenuous or highly involving activity is helpful. The only trouble is that eventually you have to stop, and the problems are still there when you do. But...getting fit and quitting a drug at the same time can be very satisfying, and you may begin to have a lot of motivation that you were lacking while you were smoking and can get a lot done all of a sudden. In the same vein, you will probably have a lot more mental capacity than you have had as a smoker. Try learning a new language, or learning calculus. Again, this will make you feel doubly proud for both quitting and doing something else positive at the same time, and will probably be easier than quitting alone. Also, if you can't sleep, don't just lie there trying, you will only stress yourself out more and it will get worse, or you will think to much about how a smoke would help you sleep. Get up and do something...like one of the abovementioned activities.

Personally, I found it helpful to have marijuana around when I was quitting, others find this more difficult. I bought a quarter of an ounce when I quit and I looked at it and smelt it every day, and it made me feel very strong that I never smoked it, it also takes away its power, as I can see that it is just a green herb, and nothing more. When I have quit in the past and not had any around, my mind built it up to be some sort of divine substance, and there was no way for me to bring it back down to earth.

Anyway, you really need to find what works for you. But if you want to stop, ultimately the only way is to not use the stuff. It may be hard, but it's a simple concept. And if you find yourself smoking because you feel somehow it is going to help you quit, then the drug is winning the mind game.

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I bought a quarter of an ounce when I quit and I looked at it and smelt it every day, and it made me feel very strong that I never smoked it,

u truly do have a nerve of steel zac, :worship:

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Ballzac that was exellect advice, that I truely should follow!!!

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There may be a physiological reason why working out helps one quit, THC being fat soluble may remain in the bodies fat stores and be gradually used up and thus you may be constantly slightly, unnoticably intoxicated. Thus by exercising perhaps you use these stores faster, get the THC out of your body quicker and as such do not feel as many cravings like you may get when these low levels of THC are in your system and you crave more.

Perhaps that isnt the reason.

Personally, I found it helpful to have marijuana around when I was quitting, others find this more difficult. I bought a quarter of an ounce when I quit and I looked at it and smelt it every day, and it made me feel very strong that I never smoked it, it also takes away its power, as I can see that it is just a green herb, and nothing more. When I have quit in the past and not had any around, my mind built it up to be some sort of divine substance, and there was no way for me to bring it back down to earth.

Jesus, you must have some killer self control!! I understand the idea behind it though, its a good idea, to understand that it isn't anything fantastically amazing, unless your mind begins to think it is. And once your mind thinks it is its all the harder to keep off it. It sounds like an excellent idea if you can resist it being there. Another way might be to think of all the negatives associated with the mull use whenever you have a craving, there must be a reason for quitting, and there are many reasons why regular use isn't such a great idea, think of all of these, make sure your head remembers why it is you have to quit in the first place, and rather than building up the ideas of the mull, build up the ideas of negativity surrounding the mull, make these all you associate with the bud, so when you think 'I want a smoke' you remember that it makes you paranoid, makes you anti-social, takes your money, etc etc and whatever your reasons for quitting are.

Anyway, you really need to find what works for you. But if you want to stop, ultimately the only way is to not use the stuff. It may be hard, but it's a simple concept. And if you find yourself smoking because you feel somehow it is going to help you quit, then the drug is winning the mind game.

Well put man, really really well put!

Peace,

Mind

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Hey everyone, thanks heaps for all the feedback, it's really been helpful just remembering that others have similar problems, and it's so good to just talk about stuff like this with people who understand.

The nausea and anxiety (they usually go together for me) are much more manageable today thank God, and I have resisted the urge for any more pharms after that little smidgeon yesterday. Generally, I only use lorazepam as an absolute last resort for really bad panic attacks, but the anti-emetic aspect was irresistable because the nausea hit so hard and for so long I just had to take the edge off a bit!

Haven't had any more pot, and don't feel the urge to, although I've still got plenty lying around... I actually went through something similar to you recently Zac, where I realized it's just another plant with potential for negative and positive use, and now I always throw a little bit away whenever I use it, I guess it's a similar thing to you keeping a bag around, just to show who's boss. I believe most of our problems do not come from without, but within us.

I'd just like to encourage anyone who is unhappy with their use of the holy herb to give it a break for a few months if you want, but be careful of developing a negative attitude towards the plant, there are many, many people who do not abuse it and for whom it is very beneficial! I believe it is a very useful substance, and like all useful substances prone to abuse when taken out of a context in which it can be useful, if you know what I mean. I started using from a very young age, but others in my family who have never used pot have similar problems with anxiety, depression... I see a definite genetic link, but if I had never used it who knows maybe I would have been different? No use worrying about that now, I'm thankful to be who I am, and I value the insights these plants have afforded me, I think they are often abused in our culture because they have been introduced too suddenly, much like alcohol for indigenous folk around the world.

Starting to ramble, and I have a headache so I'll pop in later but again thanks heaps, all the feedback has been extremely encouraging! :wub:

You can tell I'm feeling better because I'm using so many exclamation marks!

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Nice to hear man, keep it up and hopefully you'll continue to see positives from the discontinued use... i think its nice to be sober after a while of generally being not, even if its just a month or two of daily use, in fact even after that long it seemed like being sober was more like being high because being high was no longer an altered state but rather the reality.

Peace and luck,

Mind

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Not to take anything away from Balzac but I quit benzodiazapines (valium, Zanax, etc.. up to 50 valium a day), heroin (VERY large habit, from the age of 14), beupranorphine, amphetamines, marijiuhana & nicotine ALL IN ONE DAY!. IT NEARLY FUCKING KILLED ME! I am less able to function now than I ever was when I was using drugs! I even look less healthy now than I ever did when I was using even though I am clean and eating much better! My body is still in shock 5 years on.

The only drugs I can think of that I didn't have a major problem with were cocaine and alcohol! In my experience the only way to get off drugs completely is to hit rock bottom and be at the stage where you hate the substance(s) you are trying to quit or realise that they are going to kill you very soon!

The hardest part I found with quitting marijihuana was the fact that it is a good cure for boredom and the withdrawals tend to leave you bored shitless, quitting any drug is also about breaking patterns of behaviour. You need to find other things to occupy your mind or you will find yourself smoking again in no time!

I do not think that staggering your usage will help, I hear people here say that it worked for them and thats great but that is the only case I have heard of and I have met countless people with substance abuse problems, if you want to stop something has to click in your brain and then it has to rewire, IMO there is no half way point!

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apologies too the OP for my rudeness...

but it sounds like you know what your doing..

soooo everyone will react differently during withdrawal (w/d) thats a given but IME the worse things you are gonna face

with MJ w'd's (as I think you already know) are insomnia, nightsweats, no appetite a short temper maybe some nausea or depression lasting <5 daze...

any chance you were/are self medicating some underlying anxiety disorder might explain your extra rebound anxiety?? if benzos do ease your bourdon, I suggest you read the GABA thread?

hot tip I wise man once told me "you cant cure addiction, only replace it". :wink:

addictive, habit forming..same dif yeh? :rolleyes: I'll use "addictive" for commonality

^^^^^^that another topic...

EDIT* I would also like to thank "weak minded" people like Burroughs, Lennon, De Quincey hell even Kurt Cobain for their influence on society.

Edited by Conan Troutman

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Cannabis withdrawal:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1456032...ogdbfrom=pubmed

I heart the herb, but sometimes it really does get a bit much. I've basically given up on the idea of stopping altogether, mainly because I still find a considerable benefit in using it, even it is little more than a nice way to wind down and chill out. Cutting down to 3-4 sessions a week is good enough for me, for now. Then again, I don't really have a problem with constant nausea or anxiety. If anything, too much weed makes me more anxious.

Also, I've found that it's way easier to stop smoking green if you don't spin it with tobacco. Nicotine is mean, but I suppose an addiction to green is more subtle.

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Cannabis withdrawal:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1456032...ogdbfrom=pubmed

I heart the herb, but sometimes it really does get a bit much. I've basically given up on the idea of stopping altogether, mainly because I still find a considerable benefit in using it, even it is little more than a nice way to wind down and chill out. Cutting down to 3-4 sessions a week is good enough for me, for now. Then again, I don't really have a problem with constant nausea or anxiety. If anything, too much weed makes me more anxious.

Also, I've found that it's way easier to stop smoking green if you don't spin it with tobacco. Nicotine is mean, but I suppose an addiction to green is more subtle.

Oh no doubt that nicotine/cannabis combo is what makes it so addictive IMO, especailly smoking thru a waterpipe...

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