"Lost Peyotes" and other Psychoactive or Medicinal Cacti

[mutant]

How can I be sure this won't affect the results of my testing? I can't. No grafting!

you cannot be sure about anything, since you grow them in artificial enviroment , in pots, in a cold climate or indoors etc etc etc but anyways your 'arguements' are of a typical quality, your trademark: there are no arguements!

There's no certainty that production of alkaloids follows a typical scheme, let alone plants with unknown or understudied mehanism and action. The only thing we might got is where [in the plant] alkaloids are produced in greated concentration, well in some plants anyway, and maybe that if we stress the plant , alkaloids production might increase.

Grafted plants are stronger and healthier than normal rooted ones. You can stress or render normal [as I said by degrafting and letting to stabilise] at will, at any point and it's gonna be faster than whatever you do. There's no indication that there won't be alkaloid production in grafted plants and I am sure you can find many reports of grafted lophophoras that were active after certain time and proceedure....

Suit yourself, but I cannot take you anymore seriously - I almost never have, to be honest, you act just like an overenthusiastic teenager that thinks the 60 years will pass and he'll still be there with the same ethusiasm, the same hobbies, the same bunch of pelecyphora waiting to be bioessayed.

[Teotzlcoatl]

Thank you for posting a slightly better post than in my Salvia thread... at least you offered some decent information. I don't mind post like this, but please don't make post like your did in my Salvia thread. I don't need troll posts.

BTW, I can do this however the fuck I want. YOU graft YOUR "Lost Peyotes"! I'd love some help with all this!

if you have started from seed I'm sure you can afford a couple grafts while growing the regular ones.

Ya that is probably what I will do... but only the ungrafted ones will be tested.

Suit yourself, but I cannot take you anymore seriously - I almost never have, to be honest, you act just like an overenthusiastic teenager that thinks the 60 years will pass and he'll still be there with the same ethusiasm, the same hobbies, the same bunch of pelecyphora waiting to be bioessayed.

In 2005 when I first came to the shroomery most people told me I wouldn't stick with it for 6 months. In 2007 when I came to the Corroboree I was laughed at and told I wouldn't keep it up for another year... well guess what? I keep on keeping on... and I'm gonna keep and keeping on! Fuck the nah-sayers!

There's no indication that there won't be alkaloid production in grafted plants and I am sure you can find many reports of grafted lophophoras that were active after certain time and proceedure....

If you knew anything about this subject you would know that grafting greatly reduces the potency of Lophophora... as you said we can't really be too sure of anything! So keeping it as close to it's natural environment as possible is ideal.

Edited July 14, 2009 by Teotz'

[mutant]

I don't need troll posts.

I am not here to satisfy your needs silly billy

In 2007 when I came to the Corroboree I was laughed at

You are still laughed at, no evolution in that.

and..... guess what? you have nothing to show off, not even a single photo of your babies.....

BTW, I can do this however the fuck I want.

yeah, me too, and since we are both doing this and publishing in a public forum I can criticise you whenever and however I want, geddit ?

arrogance has to be paid

[Chiral]

There's no indication that there won't be alkaloid production in grafted plants and I am sure you can find many reports of grafted lophophoras that were active after certain time and proceedure....

I'd like to read those reports if you could link me to them. My understanding is that grafted lophs are extremely low in alkaloid and this has nothing due to size, but more to do with age. A 5 year old loph will look the same size as a 1 year grafted one, but there is very little alkaloid present due to the young age. There is also evidence the plant does not start making the alkaloid until it forms roots and hardens off in soil. I have asked around everywhere for any information on grafted ones and simply cannot come up with any data.

H.

[PD.]

Mutant if you cant take this thread seriously then dont bother reading it anymore please.

Any more post from either of you that arent on topic or are derogatory in any way will be deleted. There is no need for this rubbish to continue!!!

[mutant]

I'd like to read those reports if you could link me to them.

of course a year old lopho graft wouldn't be alkaloid rich. do you have reports of people that tested many years old grafts or degrafted and rooted and still were inactive? - I don't have any linky right now, just random forum readings

PD why shouldn't I read and/or comment on threads I can't take seriously? I cannot help it but comment sometimes in the public threads teo makes. It's pretty understandable to me that in public forums people can and should comment on other peoples opinions, especially if they are so out of place like teotz. Now, if you allow teo to be here [marketing trick?] with an obvious cost for the forum , staff and members, you should also make a guideline about how we should treat teo, since he is so special.

If you feel it's 'right' [what a word] delete at will. I am not really here to make friends

[PD.]

of course a year old lopho graft wouldn't be alkaloid rich. do you have reports of people that tested many years old grafts or degrafted and rooted and still were inactive? - I don't have any linky right now, just random forum readings

PD why shouldn't I read and/or comment on threads I can't take seriously? I cannot help it but comment sometimes in the public threads teo makes. It's pretty understandable to me that in public forums people can and should comment on other peoples opinions, especially if they are so out of place like teotz. Now, if you allow teo to be here [marketing trick?] with an obvious cost for the forum , staff and members, you should also make a guideline about how we should treat teo, since he is so special.

If you feel it's 'right' [what a word] delete at will. I am not really here to make friends

Well if you can keep your comments on topic, sensible and non derogatory (something i would think hard to do with a thread you cant take seriously) like i mentioned i see no reason you shouldnt reply to this thread and yes, the same applies to teotz who should know better after the repeated reminders of such things!! If tetoz could perhaps learn to ignore such useless crap and not bite at such small things then this kind of rubbish would be unnecessary and most of the shitfights wouldnt happen. If you read my reply correctly you would have noticed it was directed at BOTH of you so no need to get so defensive and claim that teotz is getting special attention. Critique of methods and ideas is always welcome as long as its done in a constructive manner and does not blatantly insult anyone. Simple.

[DayLight]

who knew there was so much drama involved in growing cacti?

and i'd like to see some info somewhere other than people just saying "this is what they've heard" for lowered alk production in grafted lophs. true, it does make sense, but the only info i have ever seen to back it up is people regurgitating "what they've heard". i thought we all knew better than this! where is the solid info, is there anyone who can chime in who has eaten grafted and non grafted lophs?

[mutant]

PD, I try, but every once in a while I read something teotz has written with the tone of know-it-all been-there and I simply cannot resist. Not getting defensive, I provoke a lot, and to this date I haven't found but one forum that this behaviour is actually tolerated, even regarded helpful. You're OK

Say, for example, if someones enter the coroboree and starts a thread: 'Aya the cure of all', stating that aya is a panacea , for cancer aids, autoimmune diseases stupidity and so on, in a really childish manner. Shouldn't at least some ironic, derogatory comments be part of the answer? I think they should...

Edited July 17, 2009 by mutant

[KanJe]

Criticism can still be made in a constructive manner that's not insulting.

What's the point of even telling someone that they're wrong if you don't do it with the hope that the point will change. With out that intention, all that's left is the insult.

[mutant]

I wouldn't keep it going, but since you insist....

I do hope he/she will understand some of my points , but not through friendly pampering behaviour, not my style anywayz, but through realistic arguements... I am not expecting much if anything yes, but, well, I have watched teotz's behaviour round several forums, I have seen many great-hearted people in here and elsewhere doing this : pampering, being friendly and patient . I honestly never felt he changed that much, and if he did it was because of threats and bans through which he was obliged to try and sedate his 'enthusiasm' so as to be able to stay on some of these forums.

I am not a humanitarian, actually I believe much of our species problems come out of our stupidity. I know better so as not to expect too much from mankind anymore, but I still cannot compromise with illusional thinking and naivete. Let alone arrogance without backup, that is a guy that arrogantly claims so much more that he actually deserves to claim or be credited for...

[arnold500]

Back to topic.

I don't know about "lost peyotes" but I have mislaid a couple.....

[M S Smith]

Yeah, I'm with mutant 100%. Sometimes restraint enables and a just fight ennobles.

~Michael~

[Teotzlcoatl]

Pelecyphora and some of the Coryphatha species are next on my list!

[mutant]

I got some of these peyotillos myself at last! Here's one of the larger specimens I got, Turbini lophophoroides...

[Teotzlcoatl]

Dude that is absolutely gorgeous!

I have never had a Turbinicarpus lophophoroides flower before!

[KanJe]

Beautiful plant mutant. I can't wait until mine get that big.

[zelly]

[Teotzlcoatl]

Great pictures guys! If you ever have any plants which die or rot for some reason please attempt a bioassy (or some kind of test)!

[KanJe]

Love your plants Zelly.

Is that an Epithelantha in the foreground? The fruits look right but it looks too fluffy.

Either way its beautiful.

[zelly]

Yes, it's a two headed Epithelantha micromeris on one stem.

[mutant]

I think mine is fluffier - but also smaller

Hey zelly this is one huge T.lophophoroides!!!!

Edited September 29, 2009 by mutant

[Teotzlcoatl]

Let's keep posting pictures of our "Lost Peyote" cacti in this thread!

[stiched up]

ive heard that the grafted peyotes drop their alkaloid levels to the level of the grafting stock?? and then after many ages will regain its alkaloids ending up with the whole plant being alkaloid rich anyway just something i heard havent done a bioassay !!! anyone experimented with eating the grafting stock after many years??

If you knew anything about this subject you would know that grafting greatly reduces the potency of Lophophora... as you said we can't really be too sure of anything! So keeping it as close to it's natural environment as possible is ideal.

[stiched up]

love the placement of the 2 ball cacti !!! lol

Edited October 1, 2009 by stiched up