paradox Posted June 4, 2009 (edited) But regardless, I have so little trust in you Teotz that I'm inclined to believe that you made up your "friends" quote yourself.~Michael~ michael has a good point teotz. all your incarnations on all the different forums are so inconsistent that nothing you say can have any credit (edit: for me) anymore unfortunately Edited June 4, 2009 by Paradox Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mutant Posted June 4, 2009 (edited) Regardless of what the facts are here Teotz', it's obvious your intentions were were in the right place. Keep it up. I don't agree. I constantly feel his intentions are far from 'in the right place' - not to mention his [lack of] judgement, arrogance and lack of respect. If you ask me this very quote of Teotz This is the first reputed usage of Obregonia as a "Peyote", even Mr.Smith's book says it has no basis as a "Peyote"... looks like he may have overlooked something! If this is true than this will be the first known use of Obregonia as a medicinal cacti. shows a lot more about the intentions, methods and tactics, especially if you know the net persona called 'Teotz' He wanna be famous. He wanna be respected for his 'knowledge'. He wanna be acknowledged as a researcher, as if he is actually doing some work in the field. He would looooove to be known as the first to popularise the supposed use of obregonia, but he never gave credit to anybodys work he stole from, in the past. Teotz, when is your shamanic store opening?? Edited June 4, 2009 by mutant Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Teotzlcoatl Posted June 4, 2009 (edited) Um... sure. Let's stay on topic... there are plenty of Teo-bashing threads but this isn't one of them! I'll give my friend credit but he certainly doesn't want his named posts online. I'm trying to get a picture to make an ID. He wanna be famous. Dude everyone hates me. I'm more like a scourge than a celebrity! I just want to know more about these amazing plants! He would looooove to be known as the first to popularise the supposed use of obregonia Well ya... if it's TRUE, but if it's not true I don't want to spread myths. Edited June 4, 2009 by Teotz' Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mauve Posted June 4, 2009 I just want to know more about these amazing plants! an advice, then: read, listen, experiment more. Speak less. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Teotzlcoatl Posted June 4, 2009 Good advice.... Now let's stay on topic.... if you need to post about me, please post here. Please only talk about information on "Lost Peyotes" here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tenacioustornado Posted June 25, 2009 Mammillaria species sound great I wanna try. http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/inde...aded&start= Pelecyphora sounds almost too powerful here's some info It was first described as a peyote by Britton & Rose who state that "it is said by the Mexicans to possess medicinal properties." Schultes, citing Britton & Rose, regards P.aselliformis as a plant "said to be either narcotic or medicinal." William Emboden, the author of Narcotic Plants, is the only one who has claims to have witnessed the efficacy of this plant as a "psychomimetic," a plant that mimics psychosis. Unfortunately Emboden fails to describe any particulars of the intoxication. Anderson regards it as "unclear if it was ever used ceremonially." Mescaline levels are minimal, and it can be assumed other alkaloids, or non-alkaloidal properties, account for the plant's reputed psychoactivity. Once rare in cultivation this very slow growing species can often be found grafted. P.strobiliformis (=Encephalocarpus strobiliformis) has also been informally mentioned as being a medicinal peyote species. Local names include: "Peote," "peyotillo," "peotillo," "peyote meco," "piote," "hatchet cactus." ALKALOIDS CONTAINED: Mescaline (less than .00002% - dry weight) N-Methylmescaline N,N-dimethyl-3-hydroxy-4,5-dimethoxyphenethylamine N-Methyl-3,4-dimethoxyphenethylamine 3,4-Dimethoxyphenethylamine Pellotine Anhalidine Hordenine Tyramine N-Methyltyramine Quinic acid Pelecyphora Pelecyphora is a well known cacti species related to the hallucinogenic Coryphantha species but is restricted to Mexico (Benson 1982). There are two species with hallucinogenic properties, those being Pelecyphora aselliformis, and P. pseudopectinata. P. pseudopectinata is sometimes used by natives of Tamualipas and considered a peyote species there (Bruhn and Bruhn 1973). It contains only hordenine. The other species, P. aselliformis, which, because of its distant relationship to the former, may be placed in a new genus. It has been reported to be commonly sold in markets of San Luis Potosi (Bruhn and Bruhn 1973), and contains a plethora of alkaloid compounds (Anhalidine, Hordenine, Tyramine, N-methyltyramine, Phenethylamine, N-methylphenethylamine, 4-methoxyphenethylamine, N-methyl-4-methoxyphenethylamine, 3,4-Dimethoxyphenethylamine, N-methyl-3,4-dimethoxyphenethylamine, Mescaline, N-methylmescaline, Pellotine, N,N-dimethyl-3-hydroxy-4,5-dimethoxyphenethylamine, 3-dimethyltrichocereine)(Ott 1993). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Teotzlcoatl Posted June 25, 2009 Very nice! Thanks for posting dude! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Teotzlcoatl Posted June 26, 2009 Pelecyphora seems to be one of the most promising of the "Lost Peyotes"! I encourage people to begin growing this species from seeds NOW! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KanJe Posted June 30, 2009 Pelecyphora seems to be one of the most promising of the "Lost Peyotes"!I encourage people to begin growing this species from seeds NOW! Lol, I keep killing mine. They aren't the easiest of plants to grow and they're not exactly the fastest either. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
.dg Posted June 30, 2009 Pelecyphora seems to be one of the most promising of the "Lost Peyotes"!I encourage people to begin growing this species from seeds NOW! shulgin did an alkaloid study on this p.aselliformis mescaline .0002% dry and some other lophophora alkaliods too Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Teotzlcoatl Posted July 1, 2009 Yes, Pelecyphora looks promising! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
.dg Posted July 8, 2009 quoting MS Smith Narcotic and Hallucinogenic Cacti of th New World Pelecyphora aselliformis is a well known medicinal peyote sold in the markets of san luis potosi, mexico and is used as a remedy for fevers and rheumatic pains. w.Emboden claims to have witnessed the efficacy of this plant as a psychomimetic, a plamt which mimics psychosis but first hand accounts are lacking/mescaline is so minimal the other alkaloids or non alkaloidal properties account for this plants psychoactivity. extracts have shown an antibiotic activity. a list of the alkaloids is listed too if anybody is really intersted Thank you MS, the signed book you sent me is treasured Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Teotzlcoatl Posted July 8, 2009 I just can't find ANY bioassys whatsoever of Pelecyphora If anybody knows of any, PLEASE post! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mutant Posted July 9, 2009 Teo, your perseverance [boy had to look this in a dictionary!] is almost touching. Hard subject. These things are tiny. I 'd love to have some.. But I don't think I would ever bioessay such a plant, as I have said before.. an unstudied columnar like pachycereus pringley maybe. Even if you find something mildly interesting, especially pelecyphora are hard to collect a respectable amount so as to properly experiment. And it's such a waste for such a beautiful plant ! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Teotzlcoatl Posted July 9, 2009 That is why I started 100s of "Lost Peyotls" from seed and plan on this project taking up a large portion of my life (50+ years or so)... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KanJe Posted July 10, 2009 Teo, your perseverance [boy had to look this in a dictionary!] is almost touching. Hard subject. These things are tiny. I 'd love to have some.. But I don't think I would ever bioessay such a plant, as I have said before.. an unstudied columnar like pachycereus pringley maybe. Even if you find something mildly interesting, especially pelecyphora are hard to collect a respectable amount so as to properly experiment. And it's such a waste for such a beautiful plant ! I think there is a lot of research that has not been done on minature Mexican cacti. Either via grafting or shier quantity I don't the area is as pointless as you make it out to be. Are you refering to minatures or just Pelecyphora? I think Gymnocalycium and Ariocarpus have a lot of potential IMO, would you think these genera would be worth it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tenacioustornado Posted July 10, 2009 grafted they should only take 5 years maybe that's for pelecyphora, mammillaria can get a real good size in 2-3 years depending what you graft to could be slower,or faster. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mutant Posted July 10, 2009 Yeah, I was mainly adressing to the tiny pelecyphora here - don't get me wrong, I would start via graft as I plan to, as I have already sown T. terscheckii from seed, but also grafted one [ man its taking ages to start properly, wendermanianus of the same date are hundreds of times bigger. Another thing is that teo has stated she [?] aint good in grafting. Hey, I suggest you should become goot at it. Without grafting it's too fucking slow... anyways.... Another thing which is I think misleading is the fact some people might get overly enthousiastic about this maybe imagining some of the obscure peyotillos etc might actually be mescaline in another flavor or colour, but I doubt it - they most propaly have some medicinal use for those natives which we cannot study with accuracy.... If you really want to advance this project here's what you should advance try. Make a give away thread and say you offer a couple of seedlings of each species to prooved good grafters. In their part, those who do receive the cacti will have to return a bioessay theirs or their friends or return some plant material to you, as contribution to the whole progect. I volunteer to take some , especially clustering, as I will be able to keep a plant [like I said I am not eating any]. what do you think?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PD. Posted July 10, 2009 Toetz, i have asked before but im askin again, can i please see some pics of your Pele seedlings and the date you put the seeds down???, im interested to see how slow they actually grow from seed and what size you have gotten yours to so far. I only have 2 small Pelecyphora plants and they seem to be THE slowest growing cacti i have, i know i dont treat them very well at all and they could do with HEAPS of tlc but im interested to see how others fair with these lil babies. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Teotzlcoatl Posted July 10, 2009 They are insanely small, but I don't have any pics yet, sorry. I started them in late 2007 I believe. I think Gymnocalycium and Ariocarpus have a lot of potential IMO, would you think these genera would be worth it? Check out the first post, it has a complete list. Another thing is that teo has stated she [?] aint good in grafting. Hey, I suggest you should become goot at it. Without grafting it's too fucking slow... anyways.... Nope, no grafting. How can I test them when they are grafted? It could ruin the experiments! Another thing which is I think misleading is the fact some people might get overly enthousiastic about this maybe imagining some of the obscure peyotillos etc might actually be mescaline in another flavor or colour, but I doubt it - they most propaly have some medicinal use for those natives which we cannot study with accuracy.... Correct. However.... "Lost Peyotls" such as M. craigii have shown us that there still are some pretty intense psychoactive cacti which are undiscovered (or which need to be rediscovered). If you really want to advance this project here's what you should advance try. Make a give away thread and say you offer a couple of seedlings of each species to prooved good grafters. In their part, those who do receive the cacti will have to return a bioessay theirs or their friends or return some plant material to you, as contribution to the whole progect. I sent out a "call for dead cacti" to all the vendors and growers I know, so hopefully alot of dried "Lost Peyotes" should start coming in! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KanJe Posted July 13, 2009 Check out the first post, it has a complete list. Yeah I saw it, just be careful in saying it's a complete list. If you really want to advance this project here's what you should advance try. Make a give away thread and say you offer a couple of seedlings of each species to prooved good grafters. In their part, those who do receive the cacti will have to return a bioessay theirs or their friends or return some plant material to you, as contribution to the whole progect. That sounds ok, although if someone were to do this there would be the issue the consistency of the growing conditions, soil used, fert etc. In theory space wouldn't be an issue at my place either as I'm clearing out a whole lot of plants out of my house soon. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Teotzlcoatl Posted July 13, 2009 Yeah I saw it, just be careful in saying it's a complete list. Your right! It's an ever expanding list! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mutant Posted July 13, 2009 You can always degraft and root and wait until it defaltes, when it reaches a certain size and you will have still won many years. You can't do it without grafting. And it's not big deal, even I could do it. one successful graft for these species, especially clustering equals tens of new born seedlings or even year old seedlings... at least IMO on the other hand you got planty of time ahead..... .... ..... ..... ..... .... .... Actually plants of the gods says pelecyphora are indeed similar to lopho.... but it's too much adorable.. I cannot understand a person who knows some stuff about cacti and would eat a live specimen of pelecyphora to maybe find out the difference from lopho or even more propably nothing will happen as these are very small and might need many to give any effect.... , when even two identical psychedelic doses could act differently on an individual... I don't understand what you are looking for with so limited specimens.. especially this genus, maybe i'm just rambling... I find the bridgesi VS other tricho thing far more interesting and virgin area there still are some pretty intense psychoactive cacti yeah, Ldiffusa is pretty intense I hear... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Teotzlcoatl Posted July 13, 2009 (edited) You can always degraft and root and wait until it defaltes, when it reaches a certain size and you will have still won many years. How can I be sure this won't affect the results of my testing? I can't. No grafting! on the other hand you got planty of time ahead..... Over 60 years if Tao wills it. Edited July 13, 2009 by Teotz' Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tenacioustornado Posted July 14, 2009 if you have started from seed I'm sure you can afford a couple grafts while growing the regular ones. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
