Teotzlcoatl Posted May 6, 2008 (edited) ~ "Peyotes" and other Psychoactive or Medicinal Cacti ~ "True Peyote" ~Lophophora williamsii "Peyotes" ~Ariocarpus fissuratus; and other species ~Coryphantha compacta; and other species ~Pelecyphora aselliformis; strobiliformis "False Peyotes" ~Lophophora diffusa ~Ariocarpus retusus "Lost Peyotes"- ~Ariocarpus agavoides; kotschoubeyanus; and other species ~Astrophytum asterias; capricorne; myriostigma; and other species ~Aztekium ritterii; and other species ~Coryphantha elephantidens; macromeris (var. runyonii); palmeri; and other species ~Echinocactus grandis; grusonii; platyacanthus; visnaga; and other species ~Epithelantha micromeris; and other species ~Leuchtenbergia principis; and other species ~Lophophora decipiens; fricii; jourdaniana; koehresii; lutea (yellow flower); and other species ~Mammillaria craigii; grahamii (var. oliviae); heyderi; (Dolichothele) longimamma; (Solisia) pectinifera; (Mamillopsis) senilis; sonorensis; and other species ~Obregonia denegrii ~Strombocactus disciformis ~Turbinicarpus laui; lophophoroides; jauernigii; pseudomacrochele; (Pelecyphora) pseudopectinatus; schmiedickeanus; and other species Other North American Psychoactive or Medicinal Cacti- ~Carnegiea gigantea ~Echinocereus salm-dyckianus (var. scheeri); triglochidiatus; and other species ~Pachycereus pecten-aboriginum; pringlei "San Pedro"- ~Trichocereus bridgesii ( "Achuma" ) ~Trichocereus pachanoi; peruvianus; and other species Other South American Psychoactive or Medicinal Cacti- ~Armatocereus laetus ~Browningia (?) ~Epostoa lanata ~Matucana madisoniorum ~Neoraimondia macrostibas ~Trichocereus terscheckii; and other species Canadiates Hybridization with Lophophora species- ~Acharagma species ~Astrophytum species ~Aztekium species ~Coryphantha species ~Leuchtenbergia principis; and other species ~Lophophora species ~Mammillaria species ~Obregonia species ~Strombocactus species ~Turbinicarpus laui; lophophoroides; jauernigii; pseudomacrochele; and other species Canadiates for Ingestion- Ariocarpus species Aztekium species Coryphantha species Echinocereus species Epithelantha species Mammillaria species Obregonia species Pelecyphora species Strombocactus species Turbinicarpus species "Lost Peyotes" at the Corroboree Crossing Cacti "White Peyote" Lophophora decipiens var. brackii Trichocereus "True Blue" peruvianus Comments by Mr.Trout on "Lost Peyotes" Kie Ti' Koal's post at Edot Turbinicarpus Info Psychoactive Cacti of the New World Uses for Cacti Turbinicarpus "Lost Peyote" Edited May 29, 2009 by Teotz' 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Teotzlcoatl Posted May 6, 2008 (edited) Turbinicarpus Link I think if you took about 7-10 mature Turbinicarpus and removed the areoles, chopped and dried them, and then ingested them I would be very interested to know what happens, I think it's likely it would be psychoactive. I have recently obtain Echinocereus scheeri... I was wondering about it and Echinocereus triglochidiatus v. neomexicanus potential psychoactivity? What of the other Echinocereus? Will somebody tell me about Echinocactus and the mythology behind it? Which Mammillaria and Coryphantha should I include? What are the most likely psychoactive candidates? From the Turbinicarpus genus I include the species- lophophoroides, pseudomacrochele, pseudopectinatus and schmiedickeanus... are these sufficient or are other cacti of the genus recognized as suspected psychoactive or medicinals? I believe one of the best possible uses of these cacti may be combining them with Trichocereus to create a "Peyote-like" experience. I could also see them being ingested with Lophophora. Armatocereus laetus "Pishicol" is reputed to be entheogen... What of it and the other suspected psychoactive columnars like Stenocereus and Browningia? I was also wondering about the psychoactivity of Gymnocalycium as well... If anybody has any reports of any of the above cacti other than Lophophora and Trichocereus please send me a PM, even if it's a friend-of-a-friend report. And what's this I hear of Trichocereus flowers being active??? Thanks ~ Teotz' Edited November 3, 2018 by Teotzlcoatl Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Teotzlcoatl Posted May 6, 2008 (edited) What about these reports of Epostoa lanata being used like "San Pedro"? Is Coryphantha rosea worth looking into? Leuchtenbergia principis is a crazy looking cactus... is it really psychoactive? How about Pterocereus gaumeri? This cactus Gymnocalycium gibbosum is said to contain mescaline. So is Islaya minor... What of Chinoa? I have heard that Stenocereus are not a good idea to ingest... but they do contain mescaline... Stetsonia coryne? Is there any evidence for use of any of theses cacti among native peoples? Edited May 6, 2008 by Teotz' Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Teotzlcoatl Posted May 8, 2008 Actually I'm preforming human bioassys of most of the above species. I think the best way to go about doing a "Lost Peyote" bioassy would be to grow from seed or otherwise obtain a fair number of the cactus in questions. Let's say your going to bioassy Strombocactus disciformis. Well you sow a fair number of Strombocactus seeds and grow them, while at the same time obtaining live specimens, grow all your cacti to mature flowering age and then began ingestions. I believe the best way to bioassy the "Lost Peyotes" would be the following- 1) Ingest one large mature specimen. Some other methods of ingestion might be ideal for the intial bioassy (such as smoking Ariocarpus turberles, which does work) 2) Ingest one large mature specimen with a small amount of Trichocereus cactus of a known potency (To study it's possible use as a companion plant to Lophophora, being ingested along with it.) 3) Ingest a few medium to large adult plants. 4) Ingest many adult plants. Be sure to not use all of your cacti for bioassy, keep a good genetic diversity for each species (Some "Lost Peyotes" species may only have ONE active strain) and always remember, many of these species are close to extiction, I would encourage people to donate their money and time to Peyote Conservation funds and I think it should be the goal of each person who comes in contact with this wonderful cacti to restore their former glory in the wild, my dream is to one day release many of my specimens back into the wild when I'm old and grey and near the end of my days... If any specimens should rot or otherwise die, then this material can be kept for bioassy, just write down the date when it was dried and other information. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Teotzlcoatl Posted May 12, 2008 100 people have read this but nobody has anything to say? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gilligan Posted May 13, 2008 my dream is to one day release many of my specimens back into the wild when I'm old and grey and near the end of my days... ROTFLMAO Run free, little peyote, go back to the wild where you belong, run free i say! you wonder why no-one has anything to say. heeeee-hawwwwww Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Teotzlcoatl Posted May 13, 2008 Hahaha... I think that's a perfectly good idea! They're going extinct in the wild! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Teotzlcoatl Posted May 22, 2008 So.... We know so far (due to the efforts of others like Mr.Smith, Mr.Trout, and many more) that some Mammilliria are active, and some Ariocarpus have medicinal vaules. Seems pretty damn simple to me. We've already discovered some new medicinals and psychoactives! Everybody we can (by standing on the shoulders of those that came before us) discover the ancient lost knowledge of the medicinal and psychoactive cacti of Mexico and South America! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trucha Posted June 1, 2008 Peyote is far from going extinct. Its quite abundant anywhere that peyote harvesters can't get to it and is hurting wherever they can. Please see www.cactusconservation.org for some photo essays of the reality. It is however literally on the verge of extinction wherever licensed peyoteros can get to it. Its not the peyote species that is threatened with extinction but rather the peyote populations that the NAC draws from. Large areas in Mexico are also now under pressure. Some of it appears to be malicious, digging them up with their roots and throwing away tiny babies to die in the sun after pulling them up by the roots. In the last decade we have seen signs of massive digging of the cactus with its roots in Texas also. Bear in mind that around 1.5+ million buttons were reported by the Texas DPS as being harvested and sold last year by the three remaining peyoteros. This is the lowest harvest ever. While discussing old claims of inebrients lost to time how about muhomar/muhamar? This was a brew made in SIberia but apparently never tasted by the travellers who encountered it. It sounds easy enough to make. Take a hide lined pit and fill it with fresh Amanita muscaria, fresh fish and enough water to cover. Cover this and let it age until thoroughly rotted. Devour in huge greedy double handfuls (or that is how it was described) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Teotzlcoatl Posted June 2, 2008 (edited) I'll be writting a bioassy report of Ariocarpus fissuratus, ingested by two people on two different occasions. The bioassy was positive in both cases. More details to come. Thank you for your comments Mr.Trout. Edited June 2, 2008 by Teotz' Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
benjahman Posted June 2, 2008 While discussing old claims of inebrients lost to time how about muhomar/muhamar?This was a brew made in SIberia but apparently never tasted by the travellers who encountered it. It sounds easy enough to make. Take a hide lined pit and fill it with fresh Amanita muscaria, fresh fish and enough water to cover. Cover this and let it age until thoroughly rotted. Devour in huge greedy double handfuls (or that is how it was described) Teotz, man you should try this! Its reputedly amazing. Like, try it tomorrow Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Teotzlcoatl Posted June 2, 2008 Perhaps one day I may investigate that as well... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trucha Posted June 2, 2008 (edited) It would be nice to create a qualitative ranking form to use in bioassays. Some of the Pachycereus might be interesting. At least one or two is thought to be anyway. Mammillaria craigii is being enjoyed as a stimulant by some. Fissuratus and retusus both are said to be psychoactive in bioassay but not so far any reports of being hallucinogenic. Echinocereus triglochidiatus has been shown to be active in a histamine sort of way (bioassayed multiple ways by one person) Maybe some of the Coryphanthas will be active in some interesting way but who knows. Other large columnars and Gymnos? Who knows. Maybe some contain enough MAOI to enable activity of other things but the concentrations look low and not promising. The tried and trues seem like a more productive path but its nice to hear people are still exploring the unknowns. Starting low and working one's way up in a series of bioassays rather than one whopping one is prudent. Having an anticonvulsant on hand is not a bad idea also in the event something does go wrong along the way. As for rotted fish an amazing number of people in the world eat rotted or rotting fish in some form. The Karankawa of the Gulf Coast did not even eat their fish, they used them to produce maggots they devoured instead. Its interesting how cultural differences can range so widely when it comes to what is or is not considered food. How about Humboldt Fog cheese coated with ashes, a thick white outer overgrowth of who knows just what and pockets of runny things growing inside of it. Pretty amazingly awesome! The people eating muhomar were described as howling with delight. No Westerner tried it and reported about it so we can only wonder. Peyote "sludge" is a fermented/rotted form used by some NAC groups and said to be much stronger than peyote. I have not yet talked to a white person who was willing to try it. Edited June 2, 2008 by trucha Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Teotzlcoatl Posted June 2, 2008 It would be nice to create a qualitative ranking form to use in bioassays. Something like this- Bioassy Report Botanical- Latin Name- Age of Plant- Enviroment- Subject- Age- Method of Ingestion- Amount Ingested- Etc., Etc., Etc.... Fissuratus and retusus both are said to be psychoactive in bioassay but not so far any reports of being hallucinogenic. The bioassys I have witnessed (both smoked material) have shown them to be psychoactive, but not entheogenic, as you said. Altho both subject stated- "I felt like I was on the verge of trippin' really hard". The subject who ingested the larger amount noted trival pattern hallucinations, but no full entheogenic effects. Starting low and working one's way up in a series of bioassays rather than one whopping one is prudent. Of course, I've already planned it this way. Having an anticonvulsant on hand is not a bad idea also in the event something does go wrong along the way. What would you reccomend? The tried and trues seem like a more productive path but its nice to hear people are still exploring the unknowns. The tried and trues will provide entheogenic experiences, but they won't provide any new experiences, psychoactives or medinicals. Ariocarpus bioassy report, coming right up! Trucha do you have any reports of ingested Ariocarpus? Again, all my subjects smoked the plant material. Thank you for your comments. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
benjahman Posted June 3, 2008 Definitely eat some rotting fish Teotz. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Teotzlcoatl Posted June 3, 2008 (edited) Def. post something worth reading next time (don't worry, I'll follow my own advice.) This guys is obvisouly just trolling and trying to get a reaction out of me. How immature. Eat a cactus. In all seriousness tho, I may look into this... but I doubt I'll be the one bioassying it. I'm not really into the actual ingestion side of these experiments... I normally just provide plant material for those brave enough to give it a go... Edited June 3, 2008 by Teotz' Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trucha Posted June 4, 2008 For an anticonvulsant you would need recommendation and a script from your doctor. Isn't it a bit vicarious to want others to do the work and take the risks? Also most (all?) of what is being looked at isn't really something new but rather is proposed explorations of lesser employed plants appearing in the literature in hopes someone overlooked or missed something interesting (A notion that plays out again with each new generation). I would suspect that there are reasons the Tarahumar may know many cacti but use mainly one or reserve some plants for the use of specialists. Somethings are clearly reflecting a Native American sense of humor like the claims for Opuntia leptocaulis fruit. I know someone who ate a huge old retusus. THey said it had some effects but nothing hallucinogenic or particularly interesting. For statistical processing of an experience far more details are needed about what happened or did not happen. It also seems of dubious usefulness to discuss this topic in a public forum. It would be far more sane to quietly and invisibly assemble a private research team, design some well thought out studies, conduct the research, then publish the results. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Teotzlcoatl Posted June 4, 2008 (edited) Thank you for all your suggestions!! More to come.... I'm pretty busy right now. Edited June 5, 2008 by Teotz' Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Teotzlcoatl Posted June 9, 2008 (edited) Does anybody care to make any comments on the suspected psychoactive columners? I see reports of Stenocereus (Ritterocereus) hystrix being comparable to Lophophora all over the net... It seems as tho some sort of testing was done (they normally reference this) Does anybody have any information on any test done on these cacti? Or any knowledge of their general psychoactivty? Edited June 9, 2008 by Teotz' Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Teotzlcoatl Posted July 13, 2008 (edited) ~ Turbinicarpus lausseri (= Turbinicarpus pseudomacrochele var. lausseri) ~ 1.5"+ plant 9-10 years old ~ "Lost Peyote" ~ Edited July 18, 2008 by Teotz' Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Teotzlcoatl Posted July 18, 2008 I was considering ingesting some Lophophora and Epithelantha fruit (seeds removed) flesh and plup... Would there be any problem with this? What do they taste like? I assume they are not psychoactive...? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Auxin Posted July 18, 2008 Lophophora fruit are reportedly a tasty snack and reportedly completely inactive.. tho I've never heard of someone eating more than just a few. Strange really, I'd prolly save them up and make peyote fruit macaroons or something.. but I'm more patient than most. Epithelantha micromeris fruit is edible and was tested by sina due to reports that it might be mildly active [1] he ate 5 and got no activity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Teotzlcoatl Posted July 19, 2008 Hmm..... thanks Auxin! I guess I'll eat 'em both at the same time.... I only got one of each. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dixi Posted August 17, 2008 I have a book called "Peyote and Other Psychoactive Cacti" by Adam Gottlieb (sp?). It says that Ariocarpus fissuratus is reported to have 10 times the potency of true peyote. Not sure if this is a fact or what, but I'd be extremely interested if someone did a bioassay on this plant. I have 2 in my garden right now, not for ingestion, (well, maybe one day ;) ) but for preservation. I am learning how to hand pollinate right now, so I can get some viable seed. I'm in the Southern U.S., so hopefully, I'll have some good seed to spread around! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites