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Teotzlcoatl

"Lost Peyotes" and other Psychoactive or Medicinal Cacti

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Thanks for posting dude!

I'm in the South-Eastern U.S.A.

Ariocarpus is psychoactive, but to what extent we do not know...

The bioassy that was performed under my supervision was indeed successful in proving the psychoactivity of Ariocarpus fissuratus, but the effects were closer to sedation more than entheogenic effects.

I'd say Ariocarpus makes a good pain-killer and would probably be great to take when your sick... but I don't think it's as entheogenic as Lophophora, but ya never know! We've only bioassyed A. fissuratus so far!

M. craigii is a good one too!

Edited by Teotz'

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Why does the NAC still eat LW when there's Torch, Pedro and Bridge around?

Edited by George

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Turbinicarpus cactus in flower-

cactus035-2.jpg

Known as one of the "Lost Peyotes" of Mexico, it is said to have psychoactive or medinical properites, but this has never been proven.

Does anybody have any questions, comments, bioassy reports?

~Teotzlcoatl~

Edited by Teotz'

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I want a white loph!!!

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Did you see the "White Peyote" thread?

"White Peyote"

Edited by Teotz'

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i thought you would get a kick out of this teotz...

I'll write it up for yall :D, in the meanwhile I'll plan on gettn to my cacti guy to get a bunch of Mammies, until then I write up the effects of extracted peruvians vs. extract peruvian w/ various Mammies:

These reports are retrospects from past experiences posted for observed synergism between Trich. mescaline and Mammilerian phenylethylamines, these bioassays were done in early fall of 2007 so please bare with me as we cant remember everything detail for detail, but I'll do my best:

Trich. Peruvianus extract (white pinwheel crystals) approx. 500mgs:

T+0minutes= Extracted from 1 kilo of peruvian torch powder ordered online, yeild was 9-10grams. Weighed out half gram doses on powder scope scale and dumped a dose into my mouth :puke: it was very bitter and slightly metallic tasting, reminiscent of my high school days of cocaine use but not quite the same flavor of bitter.

T+25minutes= Some body effects kicking in but no visuals yet, a slight shift in psychic energy (positive), no nausea, and a little tension in the face.

T+60minutes= Body effects getting stronger and visuals starting to kick in but nowhere near the peak yet, still no nausea (I rarely get it), two of my friends whom also ate a half gram reporting nausea and are trying to keep from vomiting.

T+1.75 hours= Friend runs to toilet to puke and returns smiling and happy, I'm starting to peak w/ a heavy body load and mosaic type visuals and overall feeling of well being and warmth, Shulgin scale +++

T+2.5 hours= Ful force mescaline peak at a Shulgin scale ++++, beautiful and bright rainbow (mostly pinks, blues, green) spirals are spewing out of the television while I'm trying to watch The Dark Crystal (classic 80's cheese), still no nausea on my part, I can barely ask how my friends are doing but manage to speak the words, one of my friends cant seem to put words together to speak so he retreats to the back room to be by himself and meditate.

T+3-3.5hours= At this point I bust out the nitrous balloons and DMT which pretty much defeat the purpose of reporting a purely mescaline related bioassay so I'll stop here, the nitrous and DMT w/ mescaline is a WHOLE OTHER STORY ;), and since I was rockin those two substances rather heavy during this session I cant give an accurate time frame as to when the trip ended.

Trich. Peruvianus (1.5' cutting)/Trich. Pachanoi (2' cutting)/M. Craigii (ten 6" tops) extract (white pixelated and plated crystals), approx. 333mgs (1g split between 3 people):

T+0minutes= Extracted from fresh cuttings via the me!'s mescaline in less than 4 hours technique to yeild approx. 2.5g mix alkaloids. I weighed out a gram of extract and split it (eyeballed) between me and two other individuals and we all licked up the powder.

T+30minutes= Starting of some body effects and visuals starting at a much earlier stage in the "coming up" phase, no nausea reported from anyone, some tension reported from one individual in the head and chest but this was very mild and short lived.

T+1hour= already at Shulgin scale ++ to +++, noticed a much more rapid start to visuals and lesser body load, but this could be due to less mescaline imbibed in comparison to the trip posted above. Still no nausea reported from anyone, but activety is definitelt picking up fast (yet gentle) in all of us.

T+1.75hours= Fully peaking at +++ to ++++, no nausea present in anyone, marked difference in visual patterning and color spectrums, deeper colors rather than the bright spectrum of mescaline alone, more purples, blues, magenta, green, and not the typical rainbow spiral pattern I see w/ just mescaline. Feels more sober in the mind and lighter on the body load but visuals are goin nuts and simple things like packing a bowl of ganga are incredibly difficult w/o a massive effort to clear one's vision, much moreso than the .5g dose posted above.

T+2.5hours= Timelessness has taken it's toll on us and no one seems to care how much time has past or whether it exists at all, all three of us are at the cusp of slipping completely into the visuals whilst feeling rather sober in the mind (lucidity, clearity) and are perfectly capable of verbally expressing our current state. The only complaint is the overabundance of visual patterning and tactile shifting when trying to move about (like going to the bathroom), the contradictory state of mental clarity w/ incredible visual phenomena has become almost annoying to the three of us as we struggle w/ trying to smoke our weed, it's difficult to pack a bowl when the bong and weed keep shifting and morphing and moving, let alone trying to keep a grip on something that feels like it has its own movements.

T+7-8hours?=We've all come down from the trip while still having some rather strong typical visual patterning, otherwise everyone feels completely down and calls it a night, in retrospect all the participants commented that that was the highest they've been on any mescaline I, or anyone else, have ever given them (having eaten .5+ grams before). I'd also say this particular batch of mescaline was some of the most visually strong mescaline I've ever eaten and far surpased the visual phenomena of the first trip post. Since this first experiment w/ adding other cacti to the extraction I now always add atleast a few Mammy tops to the batch being extracted.

Tea made from Trich. Peruvianus (6" cutting)/Trich. Pachanoi (8" cutting)/M. Hahniana (three 4.5" tops) imbibed on a solo mission of cleansing:

T+0minutes= Drink down foul tasting brew w/ a few hasty gulps and decide to meditate to keep from vomiting prematurely.

T+30minutes= Feeling very nauseous and fighting the urge to vomit whilst body load staring to set in.

T+1.25hours= Cant fight the urge any longer, run to the bathroom and projectile vomit into the toilet a few times, return to the sofa only to have to run back to the toilet and repeat the process once more. After purging I feel much better and feel very heavy body load and off-center balancing issues, no biggy though.

T+2hours= Visuals come pouring in abruptly w/ a little bit of edge to them, not gentle like the extracts I've prepared. I put on Seven Years in Tibet for entertainment while I wait for the peak and the storyline is to difficult in my mindspace to follow, but I leave it on as background noise. Visuals are similar to other mescaline/Mammy mixes I've done, colors seem deeper and richer and less bright than plain old mescaline, and patternings are a little bit angular compared to my normal mescaline rounded spirals and wormholes, and I find the visuals to be a bit more complex than reg. mesc. borderlining on what I see from 15-20mg of DMT (just visual comparison, not body high)

T+3.5hours= one more round of dry heaves at the 3 hour mark and I feel wonderful, I opt for sitting as my balance is very poor considering the body load which makes it seem almost impossibly exhausting to stay standing for more than a few minutes. Visuals are strong, +++, but rather than emphasis on colors that I associate w/ mescaline intoxication I'm seeing more of the complex patterning ("sacred geometry") I see w/ prebreakthrough inhalations of DMT. The body high was so overwhelming I decided against going for a walk feeling I would have to sit and rest far too often to have a good time. During the peak I found a point of clarity and was able to pay attention to my electronic entertainment catching the end of Seven Years in Tibet, and decided to put another flick on since following storylines wasn't too strainuous at this point, so I put on Anchorman for commedy relief.

T+4.5hours= Peaking hard, +++, and lovin it, visuals still as report being mostly deeper richer colors and complex geometric patterns and mentally these are not to attention demanding to not enjoy the hilarity of Will Ferrel. At around this point I loaded a large bowl of DMT (100+mgs) onto some weed and startin hitting bongloads, and soon enough I broke through to yet another one of my pivotal lifeshifting trips and gained alot of perspective as to what I was going through at that time in my life. And as usually when I smoke DMT in concurrance w/ any other psychedelic I find that after breaking through, my DMT trip has completely eliminated any aspect of whatever psychedelic I was on, in this case mixed cacti tea...In other words, after smokin a huge bowl of deemsters I am no longer high and no psychedelia remains after return from DMT land, which marks the end of this particluar mescaline experience.

Tea made strictly of mixed Mammies(fourteen 4-6" tops total), including a few M.Craigii (four 4" tops), and an ariocarpus (not sure which species):

T+0minutes= Gulped down bitter brew in a few large mouthfuls and found it to be not nearly as horrid tasting as trich. tea, but still bitter enough to make you gag.

T+30minutes= Shifting in consciousness slowly become noticeable, slight nausea but not enough to wanna puke, body high is light but noticeable.

T+1hour= Visual phenomena occurring and although it seems to me that visuals are quicker in occurrance w/ Mammies than w/ trich. they are much more toned down (i.e. less brightening of color, slower paced movements, earthier colors), body high is very pleasureable (almost erotic) and slightly weighing (pulls you down). No nausea, and feeling very euphoric and bright eyed. Some mild sacred geometry patternings but not overly abundant or super attentio grasping.

T+2hours= I would say I'm peaking at a ++ to +++ at this point, colors are reminiscent of mescaline but different in their own way, once again I will mention the variation in color spectrum in that Mammies, while still rainbowy and vast, are less bright and deeper than the average mescaline trip, once again more navy blues, purples, magentas, greens. I spent the majority of this trip playing my vast array of musical instruments as I felt motivated to do so, but composing anything good was outta the question as I couldn't find the coordination of my mind to orchestrate anything worth listening to, but solo jamming was fun and worthwhile. Overall feeling of bordom unless I occupied myself with some activity, couldn't find it in me to just sit and trip out.

T+3.5hours= Still rolling along at a +++ and in that headspace in which the trip isn't entertaining enough by itself, so I find myself switching from playing instruments to watching movies to playing videogames to surfin the net, feeling very ADD but this happens to me on many psychedelics from time to time.

T+approx. 6-8hours= The tea slowly tapers off at what I'm guessing is about this point, and all in all I'd have to say that the synergistic effect of mixing different psychoactive cacti with the usual trich. extracts is preferable as I, as well as other of my close friends, have observed a marked experience of enhancement of mescaline when mixed w/ various other phenylethylamines of the genus Mammileria, Ariocarpus, and many others I've yet to experiment with.

I'll hop on the completely M.Craigii bioassay ASAP for a more up to date report, this also gives me the idea of doing an extraction on synergistic cacti and a seperate peruvian extraction and trying different mixes of the two :D, might be awhile before that thread pops up but I'm sure I can get around to it before the end of this year. Thanks for reading!

from 'da nook

Edited by DayLight

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THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!!

If anybody has anymore info like this PLEASE post it!!! This is JUST what I'm lookin' for!

Wow, thanks man!!!

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Yes, I have, but thanks so much for adding it!

I thought I had already posted that in the thread, o well... thanks again!

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I haven't come across that one WT - much appreciated :)

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NIce, nice :)

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Thanks for the post guys, I always love to see this thread posted.

If anybody has anymore info like Daylight and Watertrade posted, that would be awesome!

I had a damn Turbinicarpus split with all the rain! Damn!

Looks like somebody will be doing a bioassy.

I've never really found many reports of Turbinicarpus ingestion, unlike Mammillaria and Ariocarpus.

How safe would y'all consider the ingestion of a single Turbinicarpus pseudomacrochele "button" with a small dose of Trichocereus? It's the cactus in post #28, such a shame it split...

Be careful when watering (or leaving out in the rain) your Turbinicarpus cacti, they have a tendency to crack or split.

Edited by Teotz'

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id think it would yield better info in the end to use the cacti on their own before moving on to adding trichocereus or lophophora. because teotz, when will you have the opportunity to ingest one of these again? if you waste it while also using trichos, then your bioassay will have that "well this and this and this was different than i remember mescaline being but who knows because i was on mescaline" thing going.

as far as safety id say there are probably more dangerous things you could be ingesting...but who knows man...the only way to find out is to do it

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sucks that it split.

I have no idea about the safety but if you do decide to bioassy it I would agree with DayLight. Go it by itself and be more sure about what effects its actually having.

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I agree with you, BUT the likely hood a single Turbinicarpus being active would mean that it were more potent than the MOST potent Lophophora.

Even with 5cm potent Lophophora ~ "Peyote" you still have to eat three.

This guy is only 2-3cm.

when will you have the opportunity to ingest one of these again?

In 10-20 years when those 1000s of seeds I'm growin', finally mature. :)

Look at the chart from Watertrade's link-

Summary of the analytical work concerning Turbinicarpus

First of all lets see the most common Alkaloids found in Lophophora williamsii. Please bear in mind this list only contains 6 of the over sixty Alkaloids known to be present in L. williamsii.

Lophophora williamsii

Mescaline 30 % of total alkaloid content (1 % dry weight)

Pellotine 17 % of total alkaloid content

Anhalonidine 14 % of total alkaloid content

Glycine 8 % of total alkaloid content

Lophophorine 5 % of total alkaloid content

3-Hydroxy-4,5-dimethoxyphenethylamine 1-5 % of total alkaloid content

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The following table lists the types of Alkaloids found in the species of Turbinicarpus which have been analysed so far. At the end there is data for Pelecyphora aselliformis for comparison purposes.

Turbinicarpus species Analytical details

lophophoroides Analysis by: Štarha et al.1999

Alkaloid Quantity present

Hordenine 91.69% [±0.54] of total alkaloid fraction of over 500 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant

Anhalonidine 2.37% [±0.12] of total alkaloid fraction of over 500 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant

Tyramine 1.82% [±0.17] of total alkaloid fraction of over 500 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant

Phenethylamine 1.04% [±0.27] of total alkaloid fraction of over 500 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant

O-Methylanhalidine 0.55% [±0.02] of total alkaloid fraction of over 500 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant

N-Methylmescaline 0.51% [±0.11] of total alkaloid fraction of over 500 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant

Pellotine 0.46% [±0.08] of total alkaloid fraction of over 500 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant

Anhalinine 0.15% [±0.08] of total alkaloid fraction of over 500 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant

N-Methyl Tyramine 0.13% [±0.11] of total alkaloid fraction of over 500 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant

Mescaline Trace detected

N,N-Dimethylmescaline Trace detected

Pseudomacrochele Analysis by: Bruhn & Bruhn 1973

Hordenine Sole alkaloid. 1-10 mg of total alkaloids per 100 gm. fresh.

Pseudomacrochele ssp. krainzianus Analysis by: Štarha et al.1999

Hordenine 49.60% [±0.55] of total alkaloid fraction of 250-500 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant

Anhalinine 29.24% [±0.04] of total alkaloid fraction of 250-500 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant

N-Methylmescaline 3.27% [±0.09] of total alkaloid fraction of 250-500 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant

N,N-Dimethylmescaline 2.89% [±0.15] of total alkaloid fraction of 250-500 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant

Mescaline 2.48% [±0.19] of total alkaloid fraction of 250-500 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant

Anhalonidine 2.44% [±0.13] of total alkaloid fraction of 250-500 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant

Phenethylamine 1.12% [±0.13] of total alkaloid fraction of 250-500 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant

Tyramine 0.98% [±0.18] of total alkaloid fraction of 250-500 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant

O-Methylanhalidine 0.77% [±0.04] of total alkaloid fraction of 250-500 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant

Pellotine 0.36% [±0.08] of total alkaloid fraction of 250-500 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant

N-Methyl Tyramine Trace detected

Schmiedickeanus Analysis by: Štarha et al.1999

Hordenine 43.02% [±1.86] of total alkaloid fraction of 100-250 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant

Anhalonidine 19.86% [±1.41] of total alkaloid fraction of 100-250 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant

Anhalinine 17.19% [±1.00] of total alkaloid fraction of 100-250 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant

Pellotine 9.02% [±0.06] of total alkaloid fraction of 100-250 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant

Tyramine 5.46% [±0.14] of total alkaloid fraction of 100-250 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant

O-Methylanhalidine 2.76% [±0.42] of total alkaloid fraction of 100-250 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant

Phenethylamine 1.1% [±0.12] of total alkaloid fraction of 100-250 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant

N-Methylmescaline 1.02% [±0.21] of total alkaloid fraction of 100-250 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant

N,N-Dimethylmescaline Trace detected

N-Methyl Tyramine Trace detected

Dickisoniae Analysis by: Štarha et al.1999

Hordenine 42.45% [±0.45] of total alkaloid fraction of 250-500 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant

Anhalonidine 22.70% [±1.14] of total alkaloid fraction of 250-500 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant

Pellotine 19.33% [±0.28] of total alkaloid fraction of 250-500 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant

Anhalinine 2.78% [±0.31] of total alkaloid fraction of 250-500 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant

Tyramine 2.59% [±0.13] of total alkaloid fraction of 250-500 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant

Phenethylamine 1.70% [±0.15] of total alkaloid fraction of 250-500 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant

O-Methylanhalidine 1.42% [±0.30] of total alkaloid fraction of 250-500 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant

N-Methyl Tyramine 0.51% [±0.02] of total alkaloid fraction of 250-500 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant

Schmiedickeanus ssp. flaviflorusAnalysis by: Štarha et al.1999

Hordenine 92.05% [±0.71] of total alkaloid fraction of 100-250 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant

Tyramine 3.08% [±0.08] of total alkaloid fraction of 100-250 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant

O-Methylanhalidine 2.89% [±0.46] of total alkaloid fraction of 100-250 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm fresh plant

Phenethylamine 1.01% [±0.21] of total alkaloid fraction of 100-250 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant

Anhalonidine 0.88% [±0.12] of total alkaloid fraction of 100-250 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant

Pellotine 0.15% [±0.07] of total alkaloid fraction of 100-250 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant

N-Methyl Tyramine Trace detected

Mescaline Trace detected

N-Methylmescaline Trace detected

Anhalinine Trace detected

Schmiedickeanus

ssp. klinkerianus fa. schwarzii Analysis by: Štarha et al.1999

Hordenine 48.81% [±2.72] of total alkaloid fraction of 250-500 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant

Anhalinine 39.57% [±1.14] of total alkaloid fraction of 250-500 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant

Tyramine 2.92% [±0.25] of total alkaloid fraction of 250-500 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant

O-Methylanhalidine 2.82% [±0.41] of total alkaloid fraction of 250-500 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant

Mescaline 1.26% [±0.21] of total alkaloid fraction of 250-500 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant

Phenethylamine 1.07% [±0.42] of total alkaloid fraction of 250-500 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant

N-Methylmescaline 0.98% [±0.24] of total alkaloid fraction of 250-500 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant

Anhalonidine 0.52% [±0.11] of total alkaloid fraction of 250-500 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant

Pellotine 0.41% [±0.11] of total alkaloid fraction of 250-500 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant

N-Methyl Tyramine Trace detected

N,N-Dimethylmescaline Trace detected

Pseudopectinatus Analysis by: Štarha et al. 1999

Hordenine 62.11% [±2.42] of total alkaloid fraction of over 500 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant

Over 50% of over 50 mg of total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant (Bruhn & Bruhn 1973)

N-Methyl Tyramine 25.15% [±1.21] of total alkaloid fraction of over 500 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant

Tyramine 3.18% [±0.19] of total alkaloid fraction of over 500 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant

Anhalinine 2.88% [±0.15] of total alkaloid fraction of over 500 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant

Phenethylamine 0.98% [±0.12] of total alkaloid fraction of over 500 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant

O-Methylanhalidine 1.92% [±0.15] of total alkaloid fraction of over 500 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant

N-Methylmescaline 1.11% [±0.13] of total alkaloid fraction of over 500 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant

N,N-Dimethylmescaline Trace detected

alonsoi Analysis by: Štarha et al. 1999

6,7-Dimethoxy-1,2-dimethly

-1,2,3,4-tetrahydroisoquinoline-8-ol 0.0075 [±0.0009%] % dry weight

N-Methyl Tyramine 0.0052 [±0.0008%] % dry weight

Hordenine 0.0048 [±0.0008%] % dry weight

N-Methyl-3,4-dimethoxyphenethylamine 0.0020 [±0.0005%] % dry weight

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Comparison with Pelecyphora aselliformis

This data is included because both Turbinicarpus pseudopectinatus and valdezianus have at one time been included in the genus Pelecyphora. According to Neal et al. 1972, P. aselliformis contains 62% water by weight.

Pelecyphora aselliformis

Hordenine 10-50% of 1-10 mg of total alkaloids per 100 gm fresh Agurell et al. 1971b

10-50% of 10-50 mg of total alkaloids per 100 gm fresh. Not major alkaloid. Bruhn & Bruhn 1973

Major alkaloid. 0.00063% dry wt. Neal et al. 1972;

0.0007% [fresh wt] Štarha 1994

Anhalidine 0.000067% dry wt. Neal et al. 1972

10-50% of 1-10 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh Agurell et al. 1971b & Bruhn & Bruhn 1973

Less than 0.0001% [fresh wt] Štarha 1994

Pellotine 0.000009% dry wt. Neal et al. 1972

Less than 0.0001% [fresh wt] Štarha 1994

Tyramine Less than 0.0001% [fresh wt] Štarha 1994

N-Methyl Tyramine 0.0002% [fresh wt] Štarha 1994

3,4-Dimethoxy Phenethylamine Trace detected Neal et al. 1972

0.0002% [fresh wt] Štarha 1994

N,N-Dimethyl-3-hydroxy-

4,5-dimethoxyphenethyl-amine 0.00018% dry wt.: Minor alkaloid Neal et al. 1972

10-50% of 10-50 mg of total alkaloids per 100 gm fresh: Major alkaloid Bruhn & Bruhn 1973

Mescaline 0.003% dry wt. Siniscalco 1983

Less than 0.0001% [fresh wt] Štarha 1994

Less than 0.00002% dry wt. Neal et al. 1972

Not observed by other workers (including Agurell et al. 1971b & Bruhn & Bruhn 1973).

3,4-Dimethoxy-N-methyl

Phenethylamine Trace detected Neal et al. 1972

N-Methylmescaline Trace detected Neal et al. 1972

Quinic acid tlc & glc by Kringstad & Nordal 1975)

Unidentified alkaloids reported by Reko 1928.

Turbinicarpus pseudomacrochele is said to contain Hordenine and I believe this ingested along side a Lophophora analogue such as Trichocereus spp. will produce an obvisouly altered experience from the regular Trichocereus intoxication, a half dose will be used.

Mr.Trout's Hordenine Thread

Question- Lophophora itself contains Hordenine, correct?

~Teotzlcoatl~

Edited by Teotz'

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I agree with you, BUT the likely hood a single Turbinicarpus being active would mean that it were more potent than the MOST potent Lophophora.

Even with 5cm potent Lophophora ~ "Peyote" you still have to eat three.

This guy is only 2-3cm.

Even then, it might also be a good idea, if someone was to do a bioessay on some of the 'false peyotes' but had not enough material, but anyway still had to do the bioessay to maybe use a MAOI to potentiate the material... just a thought... I somewhat agree that a bioessay of such a cactus alone would be far more worthy than a mixture with other cacti of known psychoactivity...

Hmmmm, the link about hordenine is very interesting, even though I don't understand all of it...

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I think mixing an MAOI with a bunch of unknowns is a really bad idea!

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100 people have read this but nobody has anything to say?

Yeah this Newb has something, im very impressed with what you said,especially the part about Wild release, great goal. I can relate to that thought(ex koala hospital Carer) I just got my williamsii seeds today( i allways thought mullumbimby was a top spot with great peep's) & im starting my cacti education here & now(ive had an interest for 20yrs) i think i have a great deal of reading to do b4 i start chating, i thought seed acquisition was the first step, then go from there, i have had cannabis xp(27 yrs use several grows) so im not totally without botanical knowledge, but certainly need educating here. I am assuming anyday now would be good for germination hey time of year and all, or should i wait for a moment on the moon cycle. I am keen to do the right thing, as much so i don't want to waste valuable/Rare seed. :)

and i should add im here for spiritual education not recreational reasons, i also acquired mimosa invisa , psycotria viridis plant, whianwhian Acacia & complanata seeds. so i'l be hanging around a while :)

Edited by cannaboiler

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There's sure seems to be alot of new people on the forums!

Welcome to the forums!

You could make an introduction thread in the Chill Space.

Have you any desire to grow any of the "Lost Peyotes" and explore their potential?

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I think mixing an MAOI with a bunch of unknowns is a really bad idea!

yeah, you're propably right that's it's not the best idea...

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Teotz, why did you say 10-20 years for Turbinicarpus , I read that most species can reach a flowering size at 4-5 years... hm??

any info about Turbinicarpus valdezianus ?? I recently got some seed of both the latter and pseudomacrochelle. We will see how it goes...

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personally i think 10 years is a good time to wait between sowing seed and consumption for turbs...most of them flower when they are very small...id like more flesh to deal with please

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Teotz, why did you say 10-20 years for Turbinicarpus , I read that most species can reach a flowering size at 4-5 years... hm??

I think it would be best to harvest them 3+ years AFTER the cacti's first flower.

any info about Turbinicarpus valdezianus ?? I recently got some seed of both the latter and pseudomacrochelle. We will see how it goes...

Only that it's sometimes placed into the Pelecyphora genus (I think).

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As for the peyote sludge comment, I'm assuming your talking about the method whereby peyote buttons are put in a jar and then buried in the ground until the peyote has decomposed into a sediment. This mixture, when opened smells like diarrhea, looks like diarrhea, and tastes much better than trichocereus that has been freshly prepared. There is also the sun tea method which is made via fresh or dried peyote buttons placed in a jar and set out in the sun for 4 days. I've tried each of these preparations as well as the ground up powder preparations, dry buttons, etc. in traditional vision quests, sundances, etc.

Other comments... let us just say that hybridizing, keeping different genetics alive, etc. is a worth while goal. I've longed to see more people interested in the serious hybridizing of pejuta as well as the reintroduction of this species and all its variants back into the wild. It is noteworthy simply to cross northern and southern forms and release these back into the wild or keep them for further more elaborate hybridization attempts. No, I see nothing funny about preserving or increasing the genetic potential or phenotypical expressions of any sacred medicine. Keep up the good work.

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