Important legal update for NSW and Qld

[Jonny Deformed]

Here's an idea.

Why don't we all pull together, buy some land and start our own country?

A country that values natures gifts and supports peace towards others instead of blatant discrimination and oppression.

[Jesus On Peyote]

Im with you JD! i said the exact same thing to my brother, but he said ittle never work, hes so negative.

[Legba]

"...Let us declare Nature to be legitimate. All plants should be declared legal, and all animals for that matter. The notion of illegal plants and animals is obnoxious and ridiculous." - Terence McKenna

I don't want to be an outlaw but they keep changing the rules on me.

[Jonny Deformed]

Im with you JD! i said the exact same thing to my brother, but he said ittle never work, hes so negative.

Tell him not with that attitude it won't.. I'm dead serious, all in favour say aye and we'll get the ball rolling.

[Auxin]

Lets collect demolition waste, find a shallow bit of international water, start hauling the concrete fragments out there, and build a new island nation from the wastes of crumbling empires.

[shruman]

"all in favour say aye and we'll get the ball rolling."

Aye

we'll probly all be hung for treason.

Edited April 5, 2008 by shruman

[Torsten]

This idea has been around for a long time, but sadly usually led by ...how do I say this politely.... 'fruitloops with amotivational syndrome'.

check out Bruce Eisner's www.island.org for example.

[mu!]

Declare your patch a "kingdom". its worked for some

[Jesus On Peyote]

Aye,

Though ild hate to see it turn into somthing like that cult fbi shooting massace in the usa (cant remember the name of it)

otherwise, Aye

[husk]

Aye,

Though ild hate to see it turn into somthing like that cult fbi shooting massace in the usa (cant remember the name of it)

otherwise, Aye

David Koresh and the Branch Davidian compound in Waco??

Edited April 7, 2008 by husk

[Jonny Deformed]

Only two ayes ay?

oky doky lads, where do you want to go?

This idea has been around for a long time, but sadly usually led by ...how do I say this politely.... 'fruitloops with amotivational syndrome'.

Right on.

[Vertmorpheus]

Bit of a pain in the bum hey?Bound to happen, of course. Still, least a 5mm loph seedling is now as destructive an element to society as a 10 foot mully... and still less potentially harmful to the flesh than a brug... whacky old world we live in.

As the man once said, about drugs causing insanity... mainly in those that haven't used them...

We might not believe the hype but the lawmakers do, usually. It's all a bit weird really, it's almost as if they have this clear window right into the intimate goings on of our garden beds, via the internet... really must look into that sometime....

Fortunately, I haven't had a loph or trich in the yard for awhile now... all fucked off in favour of Gymnocalyciums and Echinopsis, Myrtillos and Cereus.

Neatly and correctly labelled, of course. I find now, before winter dormancy, to be a good time to make sure all your labels are clear, intact and most importantly, up to date...there have been some taxonomic swaps and swivels in recent times and many of us could benefit from some time spent catching up on changes. In other cases, a reversion to earlier nomenclature and status may be more appropriate... bloody taxonomists, always causing chaos for simple greenthumbs. It's ok for us, we can tell em all apart but the average person really can't tell one from another... and you just friends and family trained up one on name and you have to teach them the new one. Not very considerate.

I like people viewing my plants to know what they're looking at, after all. I do the best I can, anyway, and if some misguided form of casual onlooker decides the labels are dodgy and they ALL require more reliable ID.... it's going to have to be a big fucking van to get them to the herbarium, what with the bulk Cereus etc. Probably a painful task too, with the generous interplanting of monstrose Opuntia and standard Opuntia microdasys, perilously balanced C. forbesii's with inch long spines... not for those lacking in motivation, anyway.

Also moved to a premixed landscaping columnar seed blend that I am reliably assured contains no illegal cacti at all. Never hurts to ask, eh? Bummer having to sort types eventually, after germination but the bag labelled "cactus seeds" saves a fair bit of time, in the short to medium term, certainly less tricky than leafing thru clippy after clippy with their neat individual labelling and all.... and really, who wants to spend more time inside than they have to? this way i can just sprinkle seed into tubs and be done with it. Hard to tell whats what as I said, when they're little, but it's not like you really need to know til they're much larger and hardier and ready to go live somewhere on their own two feet anyway.

What I really worry about in QLD is the feral population of an Ipomeaceous vine currently snaking it's way along the banks of the Barron River in FNQ, apparently "behaving like Thunbergia" which as any weed warrior knows, is tenacious and destructive stuff. I'd rather see resources put into making sure those infestations don't go dropping seed all over the countryside and along the banks of the rivear in seasons to come, but hey, that'd be sensible now wouldn't it?

Beautiful one day, twisted the next... but you do get used to it eventually. The free mangos takes the edge off the pain, and the place is full of half naked blondes for 11 months of the year so the occasionally horticultural hiccup mustn't be dwelt upon

VM

[transDiMenTional]

beautifully written VM ;)

[Infinitee]

Aye aye, vertmorph.

JD, two ayes are enough to keep millions of cars from crashing, all across the world, every single day.

Two ayes should Easily be enough to start off your Edenic community. I'd suggest steep mountains.

I'm pretty concerned that the QLD police force was 'not aware of differences in interstate drug law' ... that's a bit of an insult to our ethno community who try to understand the law (in threads like this) and maintain our gardens, to the best of our ability, within the realm of the 'lawful'. The officers who are busting us for our plants (plants that contain chemical compounds, what wicked sorcery! ) aren't even properly trained in the law and yet we are being constantly threatened by updates to the drug laws every year (or more often) !

[Alice]

Given the damage done by elected officials I think we should make voting illegal

Well said Auxin.

[Vertmorpheus]

Voting, conspiracy to produce traffickable quantities of inconvenience.

Lets all just move to PNG and start a village...everything is legal there and if its not, you just give people money to say it is, haha.

I can speak rusty pigeon, if it helps?

VM

Edited April 10, 2008 by Vertmorpheus

[synapse]

outlaw petrol, it's a dangerous drug............

 

 

Edited April 15, 2008 by synapse

[Yeti101]

Furthermore has the analogs clause in Qld changed. It is now much broader in the way it defines 'structurally related' [ie in the way it lacks the definition], but it has narrowed it down somewhat by including 'AND pharmacologically of similar action'. ie, you can now make analogs that are inactive or that have an activity that is very different from the scheduled drug.

With regard to the analogue laws in QLD for something to be considered an analogue does it have to be both structurally similar and similar in action or just one or the other? How wide is the net cast for stuctural similarity? eg is PEA (and therefore chocolate ) structurally similar enough to the naughty PEA's to come under this legislation?

[t st tantra]

and substances usually have more than one action i would think.

this is all so complex that the quality of justice one can expect may well depend on the money you can afford to pay for legal representation......yes,i know its the case now,but even more so in future......[liquid valium anyone?]......so this really sets up an unequalness before the law!

t s t .

[Torsten]

With regard to the analogue laws in QLD for something to be considered an analogue does it have to be both structurally similar and similar in action or just one or the other?

That's why I capitalised the AND.

How wide is the net cast for stuctural similarity? eg is PEA (and therefore chocolate ) structurally similar enough to the naughty PEA's to come under this legislation?

yes, PEA would come under the legislation for the structural part, but not for the pharmacologically similar part I would think. Although it's only a matter of degrees difference.

[Yeti101]

Thanks t ( and apologies for the stupid question ).

PEA being pharmacologically similar is indeed a matter of degree. But in reality (with regard to scheduling) I would have thought that it is also a matter of perspective and bias in reporting/documenting it's use and assesing the danger it poses to the community.

[Mr Griffin...]

I hope that any legal classification of beta-phenethylamine would take into consideration that it is without substantial effects in man (ie. it is not pharmalogically similar to illicit substances, despite having some structural similarities).

The fact that it can be rendered active to some degree by MAO-B inhibition should not, I hope, be used to establish "pharmacologically similar" activity. There has in the past been promising research, using the combination above as an antidepressant and it seems to be one of the endogenous enhancer substances that offer new directions for future treatments.

Wouldn't suprise me if a the whole set of neurotransmitters and trace amines become analogues of illicit drugs. Tack on a name like "Desmethylamphetamine" and PEA ends up sounding like something that could be the next epidemic.

[blangschpeer]

I have been wondering if any of the corroboree make submissions to help sway the NDPSC members' decisions on scheduling.

It was doen on kratom, and caused a 6 month delay, but that was it.

Perhaps if we all get together and make a "donation" that would be more effective. If we all throw in $5 that should buy much more sway than any submission ever could, if you think of how many aussie members there are. Then just make an equal donation to the party making the laws and we should start to make some progress...

[Yeti101]

Perhaps if we all get together and make a "donation" that would be more effective. If we all throw in $5 that should buy much more sway than any submission ever could, if you think of how many aussie members there are. Then just make an equal donation to the party making the laws and we should start to make some progress...

Good idea, but political donations are hit and miss - ask the Hotels Association. And we'd need a lot more than a few thousand to get the ear of a single Labour or Liberal pollie. But other business, community and religious groups lobby in this manner, so we should at least consider giving it a go. I think it goes without saying that the person(s) administering this collection/donation would have to be squeaky clean, as would anyone publicly linked with it.

[strangebrew]

Not that it makes any difference here and I'm taking them at their word but someone on another forum mentioned that in fact Germany has similar analogue/plant laws and do sometimes confiscate cacti from people coming into the country from Holland but otherwise Germany, much like here, has not generally bothered enforcing it.