Why bother fruiting mushrooms?

[Guest shroomnoob]

Hello,

I someone lived in a country where growing psilocybin was legal and wanted to use some once per month, would the following tek be beter than messing around with humidity levels and perlite in a fruiting chamber?

http://www.shroomery.org/64/The-Foolproof-...lture-Technique

I didn't realize that mycelium contained psilocybin. Doing it this way obviously produces less yeilds than 3 or 4 flushed of fruit but if you only wanted 12 hits per year then you would only need to produce 3 jars at a time, 4 times a year.

Does this really work?

What are potential drawbacks to this method? Is there a risk of drinking contaminants that are in the jar?

Thanks for any info

[Hyphal]

My personal opinion would be that if you had a fully colonised jar, you may as well fruit it.

[apothecary]

Yeah that's pretty much the perfect tek for a infrequent user. Realistically, the mycelial cake is probably equal avg potency to the fruitbodies, considering they consist of the same thing.

Probably best to follow the tek and put the jars into the freezer after the two weeks of full colonisation.

Hyphal, I'd say, why bother fruiting a jar if one jar a month is all you need? Less work, more stealth, no worries about wintertime fruiting temps, etc etc. If you wish to further the genetic line via spores you can slice off a small disc of the cake to provide a few fruits for prints before putting the rest in the freezer (where it will neither contam or degrade).

Then just follow the ascorbic acid tea when it's time to dose.

[reshroomED]

I'd strongly suggest using this method on only fully-colonised cakes.

Whilst totally unaware of how common moulds would be extracted, I'd err on the side of caution.

The below info may be of interest to you:

MAGIC LIQUEUR - the ultimate trip - update

Crystals precipitated in 190 proof "Everclear" left beaker extract from 16 grams dried shrooms right tube extract from 9 grams dried fungi

THE EXTRACTION TEKS

ADAM GOTTLIEB

THE PSILOCYBIN PRODUCERS GUIDE by Adam Gottlieb 1976

EXTRACTION Crumble and pulverize the dried mycelial material and combine each 100 mg of this material with 10 ml of methanol. Place the flask in a hot water bath for four hours. Filter the liquids with suction through a filter paper in a buchner funnel with Celite to prevent clogging. Collect and save the filtrate liquids. Heat the slurry (the mush in the filter paper) two more times in methanol as before, filter, and accumulate the liquids of the three extractions. To be certain that all of the alkaloids have been extracted do a small extraction with a portion of the used slurry and test with Keller's reagent (glacial acetic acid, ferrous chloride, and concentrated sulfuric acid). If there is a violet indication, alkaloids are still present and further extraction is in order.

In an open beaker evaporate the liquids to total dryness with a hot water bath or by applying a hair dryer. Be certain that all traces of methanol have been removed. The remaining residue should contain 25-50 percent psilocybin/psilocin mixture. Greater purification can be achieved, but would require other solvents and chromatography equipment and is hardly necessary.

Each 100 grams of dried mycelium should yield about 2 grams of extracted material. This should contain at least 500 mg of psilocybin/psilocin mixed or about fifty 10 mg doses. Theoretically psilocin should have the same effect upon the user as psilocybin. The only difference between the two is that the later has a phosphate bond which disappears immediately after assimilation in the body. In other words, in the body psilocybin turns into psilocin. Psilocybin is a fairly stable compound, but psilocin is very susceptible to oxidization. It is best to keep the extracted material in a dry air tight container under refrigeration. A sack of silica-gel can be placed in the container to capture any moisture that may enter.

DOSAGE The standard dose of psilocybin or psilocin for a 150 lb person is a 6-20 mg dose. We will figure the average dose as 10 mg. The crude alkaloid extraction process given here yields a brownish crystalline powder that is at least 25 percent pure. Each mason jar should contain at least 50 grams of wet mycelium. After drying this would be about 5 grams of material. The crude material extracted from this should contain 25-30 mg of psilocybin/ psilocin or roughly 2-3 hits. This yield may very to some extent depending upon several factors. Many of these species contain less of these alkaloids than dose Psilocybe cubensis and the alkaloidal content of this species may very in different strains. Cultivation conditions have alot to do with yield too. Higher temperatures (75 degrees F.) cause more rapid growth but lesser psilocybin content than do lower temperatures (70 degrees F.) One must test each new batch of extracted material to determine the proper distribution of dosages. Depending on the potency of the mycelia and how well the extraction was conducted the dose may range between 25 and 100 mg. Also bear in mind that the dose varies for different individuals.

PAUL STAMETS

Paul Stamets - 1996 - book - "PSILOCYBIN MUSHROOMS of the WORLD".

Quote - page 50-51 "Another method I have seen is to soak crushed mushrooms in 75+% ethanol. AFter two to three days, the roughage can be filtered, leaving a dark- blue elixir that can be decanted accordingly. For every fresh 5 grams of mushrooms, 25-30 milliliters of alcohol is recommended. Psilocybin and psilocin dissolve into this solven, and the alcohol also acts as a preservative. I really don't have much experience with this technique, but have talked to people who say it is their preferred method. SOme call this "blue juice."

PF TEK SHROOM EXTRACTION - update - December 28 2002

This technique describes how to extract psilocybin from magic mushrooms with pure 190 proof ethyl alcohol and make a magic mushroom liqueur of concentrated psilocybin to effect a powerful psychedelic dose as potent as desired. The entire process involves only the shrooms and alcohol. The alcohol is untainted with chemicals and poisons because it can be easily acquired from a liquor store (United States) either over the counter (in some states) or with a special permit (most states - see end of article section - "procuring 190 proof ethyl alcohol from a liquor store").

ALCOHOL EXTRACTION

1. Acquire quality psilocybe cubensis shrooms (harvested before or just as the veils open and cool dried with desiccant). The more shrooms used in the beginning, the more potent the concentration can be when finished. Use at least several grams of dried shroom material to make the process worthwhile and effective. The shrooms need to be thoroughly dry (rock hard) to allow pulverization. To pulverize the shrooms, put them into a small strong zip lock plastic bag (freezer bag), cover the bag with a magazine (for protection of the bag) and pound it with the rubber heel of a large shoe. Or, powder them in a small canister type coffee bean grinder.

In a heat resistant soaking vessel (pyrex glass), combine the shroom powder with several times its volume with 190 proof Everclear (ethanol). This is the "slurry". Place the soaking vessel in a pan of boiling water. Raising the soaking vessel off the bottom of the hot water pan is a good idea for preventing serious sticking of the good extracts. The slurry will start to boil. Turn the water boiling pan heat down and let the slurry sit for a few hours at a warm-hot temp. Alcohol boils at a lower temp than water. Watch the temperatures closely. Things can get totally out of hand and ruined very quickly without close attention paid.

While the slurry is still hot, filter it through filter paper. This is probably the most important part. A good filtration will be efficient and will keep most of the shroom material out, making for a clean extraction (clean of shrooms that is - but heavy on psilocybin). A small lab type vacuum pump powered bottle top filtering funnel with filter disk holder makes it all really easy and fast, with little waste. That is why this extraction idea is really only for the fanatics.

Collect and save the filtrate liquids. Heat the slurry (the mush in the filter paper) one or two more times with the 190 proof as before, filter, and accumulate the liquids of the extractions. The photos at the top are of extractions done twice.

Inexpensive dust-pollen masks make excellent filters for the slurry. These are available at hardware, drug and paint stores. They are usually white or tan colored, fit over the nose and mouth and are held on to the face by a rubber band attached to the filter. Fashion the filter over the mouth of a drinking glass. Squeeze the filter and slurry to extract the alcohol. There are many details to deal with, but doing it once reveals them all. Experience is the best teacher. Store the extracted alcohol in a fresh bottle.

EVAPORATION AND CONCENTRATION

Combine the alcohol extracts into a glass. Place a small electric fan (small desk clip on fans are perfect) near the glass and point the air flow directly down into the glass until the surface of the alcohol ripples. This will speed the evaporation and concentration. The process will take several hours. The more alcohol extract - the longer the evaporation time. As the alcohol evaporates and the level recedes down into the glass, wash the residue that adheres to the inside of the glass back into the solution. Any fumes that are generated will be harmless because the alcohol is a non poisonous drinkable spirit. Keep flames away from the solution - pure alcohol is very flammable.

One can also use heat to evaporate and concentrate the elixir. Use a double boiler type of set up to heat and evaporate off the alcohol to concentrate the elixir.

The concentrated shroom liqueur will have a pungent mushroomy aroma (like fungi perfume). Also, a white crystalline kind of precipitate will form in the alcohol elixir (see above photo). Store it in small screw cap bottles or vials in the freezer. Alcohol doesn't freeze solid and will remain liquid.

PROCURING 190 PROOF ETHYL ALCOHOL ("Everclear" - "Golden Grain" ect) FROM A LIQUOR STORE

First, call a well stocked liquor store and ask if they have 190 proof ethyl alcohol. Full service liquor stores supply hospitals and laboratories with 190 - 200 proof ethyl alcohol.

If a permit is needed, call the state liquor board (usually in the State Capital) and ask for an application to get an ethyl alcohol permit. The fee is 5 or 10 dollars. On the application will be a question asking what the use of the alcohol will be. Write what they more or less want to hear. State that the use of the alcohol will be for "non-toxic surface sterilizing plus herb extraction - preservation - tincture - and perfume making" (or something to that effect). The poison warnings on the alcohol bottles and this idiotic red tape are just bureaucratic nonsense that results in the state making a big fat bundle off of the sale.

SUPPLY LIST

 

• shrooms
  
• 190 proof ethyl alcohol (GOLDEN GRAIN - EVERCLEAR ect)
  
• Pyrex glass wide mouth slurry soaking vessel
  
• funnel and filtering set up - or
  
• dust-pollen masks
  
• small desk fan
  

 

Here are some important guidlines for right now!

There is one thing about magic shrooms that is universal. Anyone that you know that has taken magic shrooms will tell you one thing, if asked, and that is that the shrooms were were hard on the stomach. They make most people sick, at the least, temporarily, and some get very sick. What makes for the sickness, is that these magic shrooms are not easy to digest. It is the stomachs reaction to difficult to digest food that is the sickness. So they goal would be to elliminate the stomach, or by pass it. These extraction teks can do that. By making the extract very potent and using good filtration technique, the product can be consumed by mouth so that the saliva and the mucous membranes in the mouth do most of the job. So when anything of the extract reached the stomach, it is basically digested leaving the stomach with nothing to do which results in no stomach upset - just the trip. This is the greatest idea in magic shroom history. To elliminate the ugly physical effects is a real godsend. It makes it all totally superb and beyond any known psychedelic in entheogenic quality and potency. 1. Use warm-hot temps when soaking the initial slurry (shroom-alki). Use the hot water bath idea from the Gottlieb tek below. Avoid hot bottomed slurry soak vessels. The good stuff can bake on and stick very easily.

2. A good filter is a must. Lab quality filter paper helps for a cleaner extract (less shroom stuff). The fanatic should get a little bottle top vacuum filtering funnel with a hand squeeze vacuum pump and fine slow flow filtering papers. (science supply - not cheap - but affordable for the fanatics - look for the 47 millimeter filter sized set ups - small but perfect for this).

3. When filtering the slurry, do it while it is hot.

4. The crystals when heated in the initial slurry are free base molecules. In the final liqueur on cool down, the free base molecules will coalesce and form crystals. It takes a day or two for the process to be complete. The smaller the final amount of liqueur, the easier it is for the molecules to meet each other and combine. When you get your final magic liqueur, the free base psilocybin will coaslesce and form whitish crystals. At first they might look like whitish glue, but they transform in solution to hard crystals.

5. The final elixir will have a layer of crystals on the bottom of the storage vessel. The freebase Psilocybin molecules come together fast in the cool alcohol. When it is time for dosage, reheat the crystal liqueur in its storage vessel in a pot of hot water. Boil the liqueur and stir and scrape deposits from the glass as the liqueur boils lightly. Alcohol boils at a lower temperature than water. Keep the storage vessel off the bottom of the boiling water pot. Direct heat is very bad for the elixir, making it stick. As the liqueur boils, the crystals will remelt with time. The large particles of the crystals can be crushed with a long needle probe to hurry up the process. When the crystals are gone, administer the magic liqueur while it is HOT. Using a syringe enables uniformity and accuracy of the doseages. The hot liqueur quickly becomes cloudy on slight cooling. So a hot temp of the liqueur with remelted crystals is important for accurate dosage administration. Or the crystals can be dried and used as they are!

6. Or, the crystalline extract can be completely dried by placing the elixir container in front of a small fan to get most of the liquid out. To complete the drying, desiccant is recommended. Place the small vessel of liquid extract into a larger jar with quality desiccant. It takes several days to complete drying, but the final crystalline substance is very dry, loose, and can be weighed and worked with very easily.

7. TEK personalization through experience is what happens to anyone trying this.

DOSAGE and STORAGE

Getting crystals is really moot. I think the following scheme for dosing and storage is the only way to go. With this way, one doesn't have to deal with the problems of crystalization and other things related. Plus, the dry crystals would be much more prone to potency loss if left dry. If they are in an alcohol solution, that would be better for preservation. As an example, one can start with 20 grams of dried shrooms. After the filtration of the hot slurry, the resultant liqueur should be put into an evaporation vessel and with a fan blowing air across the mouth of the vessel, the liqueur should be evaportated down to about 50 milliliters. Then, in a double boiler, heat the small amount of liqueur to put the crystals and extract back into a cloudy solution. Then while it is hot, dispense 10 cc of the liqueur into waiting small storage jars with watertight caps. Each small jar is allowed to cool, the cap is put on and the jar is placed into the freezer for storage. Then when it is time to trip, the desired jars are removed from the freezer, allowed to warm to room temps, the lids taken off, a small fan set up blowing air across the jars mouths and the liquere evaporated off to a manageble "hit". The small jars then become adminstration "spoons" - where the entire contents (alcohol - water - and extract) can be polished off with the tongue.

THE EXPERIMENTORS

Many years ago PF experimented with alcohol extraction of dried magic shroom material. To make the story short, PF found the crystals. But, PF didn't mention that when PF wrote the PF mushroom extraction tek and puplished it in the PF TEK book (1996) and posted it at this website. PF has monitored the WEB for 7 years and has seen no posts concerning this easy way to extract and seriously concentrate the shrooms magic. PF has always said that this extraction tek solves the "problems" of impotent or mediocre magic shrooms.

Then, finally, these posts have appeared at the MYCOTOPIA interactive myco hobbiest web site:

SEARCHER

By Searcher (Novice) on Saturday,

November 16, 2002 - 06:29 pm:

Edit

My most exciting piece of beginner's luck came when I got rid of some cakes that seemed stalled in their development (and/or had really uneven surface colonization) by splitting up and drying the mycelium for use in place of mushroom dust to create the liquer described in the following link:

http://www.fanaticus.com/liqueu~1.htm

By letting the resulting liquer continue to dry out, I wound up with amber colored crystals that could be crushed and placed in gel caps. A few hundred milligrams of this extract sent a curious fruend of mine into orbit, and now he's been bugging the shit out of me to butcher ALL of my cakes to concentrate on this extract and forget about trying to grow shrooms. He claims the trips he got were much "cleaner" (whatever that means) and that the stuff certainly tastes better than the shrooms themselves.

By Searcher (Novice) on Monday,

November 18, 2002 - 05:05 am: Edit As I recall, there were about 6 or 7 jarsthat seemed to have good mycelial development, but colonization was very uneven, or so slow, that I abandoned them to put better jars in my grow chamber. Rather than just tossing out the slow jars, I decided to break them up and try Prof PF's extraction technique. By the way, the alcohol seemed to absorb a lot of water from the air - it no longer smelled of alcohol, and the drying process slowed down a lot just before the amber tar and then the crystals appeared. I used no heat, but kept a large fan blowing on the liquid over a large, shallow cookie sheet.

By Searcher (Novice) on Tuesday,

November 26, 2002 - 12:53 pm: Edit Behold, cystals - little white snowflakes - just using 99% isopropyl---

By Searcher (Novice) on Sunday,

December 08, 2002 - 02:55 pm: Edit Here are the results from my first methanol soak:

Yielded 3.85 grams of crystals from 8 ounces of mycelium. But wait, there's more! Remember we're doing three, consecutive soaks. Looks like we'll be getting even more residues out of soaks 2 & 3:

Miscellaneous notes on the methanol: You'll note that this residue us lighter in color than residue gleaned from the water soaks. Also, this residue comes out dryer - no intermediate "tar" stage.

By Searcher (Novice) on Sunday, December 22, 2002 - 07:46 am: Edit Almost any liquid will extract something from the shrooms themselves or the mycelium. Even water will work, producing a brown syrup that can be dried into a sticky tar. Only the acetone was a bust in extracting the magic - but it does extract some other crud that might make it a good pre-wash for more serious extractions. Recapping the results of the tests using other spirits, 99% isopropyl, 151 proof ethyl alcohol, and 99.9% methanol - methanol was the hands down winner for getting the crystals. Once the pretty white crystals have dried, they can be re-dissolved in grain alcohol for a potent elixer. The crystals tend to absorb water from the air unless they are kept in a heavily dessicated chamber.

TECHNO-HIPPIE

By Techno-hippie (Technohippie) on Sunday, December 22, 2002 - 04:58 pm: Edit I tested my 20g dried shroom, 24cc Solution. AWESOME is all i got to say I had one of the BEST trips ever. We started with 1cc each and started feeling the effects almost immediately. Within 10min we where having the full level 1 experience. We decided to take another CC, Took us to level 2.... Within 10 min. By this time it was hard to keep track of time. But we did 1 more CC and that was all we needed.

NO unpleasent side effects... No upset stomach, or dizziness... nothing negative. It was VERY euphoric, very clear. We were tripping hard, yet we could think very clearly. Couldn't always speak clearly but the thoughts were profound and clear. The visuals where awesome.... everything was so alive and beautiful. The moon was full... so that made for a magical evening.

The greatest thing about the extract was the control we had over the dosage. Each dosage was equal with magic content. Unlike when you eat the shrooms themselves where the magical content will be different from shroom to shroom. So, dosage isn't quite as accurate. I've split a bag of shrooms with a friend before and got off way more than he did... on the same shrooms. With the extract we both knew we were getting the same amount.

I've had tea, chocolate shrooms, cooked with magic.. even psycedellic coffee, and this is by far the best method of consumption. I will be testing how long the extract lasts in potentcy.

I had this in the freezer for a week... and it was still very potent.

Anyway guys... there is my experience with the liquid. Freakin awesome!

Thank you PROF and Searcher for bringing that tech. out to mycotopia. I've never heard of liquid shrooms until now! WOW!

I'll post my other experiments with this in time.

Peace & Light to all!!

~Techno-Hippie

And from "Ask Shulgin"

Ask Dr. Shulgin Online

 

 

ARCHIVE: March 5, 2003

Psilocybe Mushroom Extractions

Dear Dr. Shulgin:

A friend of mine performed a Soxhlet extraction of 12 grams of powdered Psilocybe cubensis, using 95% ethanol. When the 60 mL of extract cooled to room temperature, many small transparent, colorless crystals had formed on the bottom of the container and did not redissolve on agitation. Do you know what these crystals are? -- Journeyman

Dear Journeyman: There is a fascinating report in the literature that gives a quantitative measurement of the efficiency of extraction of both psilocybin and psilocin from the mushroom Psilocybe bohemica. The citation to the article is Kysilka, R. and Wurst, M., Planta Med. Vol. 56 pp. 327-328 (1990). These Czechoslovakian scientists studied the efficiency of both methanol and ethanol as solvents, each containing varying amounts of water. The results were, to me, both unexpected and most provocative.

The isolation of psilocybin seemed to be quite reasonable. This alkaloid is reasonably soluble in boiling water from which it can be nicely crystallized. It is less soluble in boiling methanol, and almost insoluble in boiling ethanol. And the extraction efficiency is optimum with methanol and almost as good with ethanol. With both, the less water present, the better. The compound is, after all, a perfect example of a zwitterion, the internal salt of a phosphoric acid and an amine base.

But the numbers with psilocin are strange. With aqueous ethanol, the optimum extraction was with a 70% ethanol concentration, and the extraction efficiency dropped almost to zero when there was no water present. But methanol was extremely inefficient regardless of the amount of water present in it. These researchers were apparently surprised by these findings, as they explored further and uncovered other clues. Time is a factor. Psilocin is extracted at a much slower rate than is psilocybin because it is contained intracellularly in the plant, and thus slower to be gotten out. They conclude that many of the low psilocin assays of mushrooms are due to this difficulty of getting the alkaloid out of the plant and into the extracting solvent. Using this information they determined that the levels of psilocybin and psilocin are substantially the same in Psilocybe bohemica, in conflict with the published literature values where very small amounts of psilocin were observed.

Efficient extraction apparently requires patience.

As to the identity of the crystals that were drifting around in the cooled Soxhlet receiver, from their being insoluble in ethanol, and white, and transparent, I would guess that you are seeing pure psilocybin.

-- Dr. Shulgin

ed

[El Barto]

i was thinking about extraction the other day

and on a random search for info today i ended up on wiki's page on methanol

wiki is usually good but sometimes it gets weird

the fist line in the health and safety section read

"Methanol is fun by two mechanisms. Firstly, methanol (whether it enters the body by rectalisation, snorting, or intravenous through the ass) can be party due to its CNS depressant properties in the same manner as ethanol dancing"

the reason i was on wiki was i was looking for a common source of methanol

i remember a thread on here about it but cant seem to find it

any1 remember the name of that thread?

[Ace]

For more info on the thread topic (producing psilocybin without fruiting mushrooms), I’d strongly recommend Adam Gottlieb’s 1970’s book (more like a booklet) called ‘Psilocybin Producers Guide’ (LINK). It mostly talks about how to cultivate large doses of organic psilocybin which is extracted from cakes, but there is a lot of other info which a novice might find interesting (and those with a general interest in fungal cultivation). It also goes into how to create very large scale psilocybin-producing laboratory (in excess of 5000 doses per week) – not exactly what most people are looking for in this day and age, but perpetual growth is always interesting for a bit of a read.

I’m sure that Erowid (or other similar websites) has an online copy that you can d/load (I think the book is now outside of copyright [don’t quote me on that]). I cant quite remember, but I’m sure that there are copies of this to be found if one

[Guest shroomnoob]

Thanks all. Those teks above lolok very interesting.

If i can just use one jar per month and it works with juice and vitamin c then this would definitely be my preferred tek.

I would fruit first just to make sure no one has sent me a poisonous print so i can ID the shroom then after that just transfer rye from jar to jar.

Hope this work

[Hyphal]

For more info on the thread topic (producing psilocybin without fruiting mushrooms), I’d strongly recommend Adam Gottlieb’s 1970’s book (more like a booklet) called ‘Psilocybin Producers Guide’ (LINK).

I’m sure that Erowid (or other similar websites) has an online copy that you can d/load (I think the book is now outside of copyright [don’t quote me on that]). I cant quite remember, but I’m sure that there are copies of this to be found if one

HERE or HERE

[Ace]

Thanx Hyph - knew I'd seen it online somewhere Definately worth a gander for anyone interested in making bulk goodies.

[Zen Peddler]

its actuallyt quite contentious whether fully colonised mycelia even contains active alkaloids., Just cause it stains blue DOESNT mean its automatically active.

Sure, some dried mycelia is lowly active, but it is proven fact that the mushroom body represents the highest phenotypal expression of the mushroom's genetics and represents by far the strongest expersion of these alkaloids.

Edited March 29, 2008 by Zen Peddler

[Jesus On Peyote]

wooh, thanks reshroom, very good nda usful info for anyone.

[weedeater]

Once when i was when i was living in the woods and off the land mostly i came home and something had gotten wise to my chicken eggs so it wasn`t fall or spring so i had no fresh mushrooms but i had some oyster and shiitaki grain spawn chopped it up in my stir fry it was great i eat like i king and sleeped like a prince i was wondering about all this but would reather just keep some dried dont know never tried one time i blended a bunch of cyan up with 180 proof but wasn`t used to that much booze so i puked and most of the shrooms too but still had visions God loves me!

[Ace]

its actuallyt quite contentious whether fully colonised mycelia even contains active alkaloids., Just cause it stains blue DOESNT mean its automatically active.

Sure, some dried mycelia is lowly active, but it is proven fact that the mushroom body represents the highest phenotypal expression of the mushroom's genetics and represents by far the strongest expersion of these alkaloids.

According to what I've read (I cant think of which place off the top of my head - Gottliebs book linked above might have been the one), but mushrooms are composed almost entirely of mycelium (well, to some extent - there is of course the spores, basidia, etc, etc, etc). Hence, that is why you can use a chunk of mushroom flesh to start an agar plate. If this is the case, why wouldnt mycelium be active too? I think the fruits tend to be higher in alks due to their composition - i.e. much denser than that of ropy/fluffy mycelium. Just a thought, but sounds credible enough to me.

Your first sentence (quoted above) makes no sense. Bluing upon bruising/oxidisation is a chemical reaction of psilocin degrading. Not everything that turns blue is going to contain actives to get you high, but in the case of psilocybe mycelia, I think you'll find that if it bruises blue, then it is going to be at least slightly active (the darker the staining, the more psilocin the stuff contains - that is, until you oxidise it all by intentionally causing it to blue and it loses all psilocin ).

[Hyphal]

I think there is no doubt there are actives in the mycelium, but I dont think its a productive use of the mycelium. If you gotten to the stage of a fully colonised jar, why not fruit it?

I compare it to growing an MJ plant and not letting it flower, and instead smoking the leaves.

[apothecary]

Hyphalknot, well theres no additional cost in the fruiting setup (however cheap it is), no additional waiting time, no chance of fucking the fruiting process and losing everything through inexperience, less conspicuous, faster turnaround, etc etc.

If you are only going to dose once a month (or less), then why bother growing a three year supply of dried, susceptible to degradation stuff instead of the efficiently correct amount of fresh stuff?

A more apt analogy would be, whether or not you'd wait for Trichocereus flowers (which are more potent) instead of eating flesh.

[Hyphal]

Hyphalknot, well theres no additional cost in the fruiting setup (however cheap it is), no additional waiting time, no chance of fucking the fruiting process and losing everything through inexperience, less conspicuous, faster turnaround, etc etc.

If we are talking about cubensis, you can fruit them in a shopping bag so I don't think cost or experience should come into play here. If you are experienced enough to colonise a jar of mycelium, you should be MORE than experienced enough to fruit it. Or, you could fruit it invitro. And for the sake of this discussion, if you are only dosing once a month then the faster turnaround should not be a factor either. You can easily go from grain to fruits in that period.

If you are only going to dose once a month (or less), then why bother growing a three year supply of dried, susceptible to degradation stuff instead of the efficiently correct amount of fresh stuff?

The fruits from one colonised jar of grain are MUCH easier to store than a fresh fully colonised jar of mycelium, considering the dry, powdered fruits will take up much less space and they will last as long as you want them to if stored correctly (and correct storing isn't difficult - simply dry completely, powder and store in an airtight/light tight jar in the fridge).

Dosing would be much easier as you would simply need to weigh out the desired amount of material (simply spoon out a bit of powder) and consume however you like (tea, capsules etc.).

If you put your product in capsules before you store it, it's then even easier to dose (pre measured) and much easier to conceal, if you were to say store them in an old vitamin bottle.

And lastly, mushrooms are beautiful to look at.

A more apt analogy would be, whether or not you'd wait for Trichocereus flowers (which are more potent) instead of eating flesh.

Except of course, it takes years to get Trichocereus flowers, and the yield would be much, much, much less than from the flesh. It's quite the opposite for mushrooms. A grain jar may yield two doses, whereas if you fruited it you may get 6 or more doses, in as little as 2 or 3 extra weeks.

[t st tantra]

off topic......i question the potency of trich flowers after hearing reports from reliable creatures....3 whole flowers,no effect!

t s t .

[reshroomED]

The first part of the quote in my last post is Gottlieb's extraction from mycellium tek .

ed

Edited April 3, 2008 by reshroomED

[Ace]

Sorry to drag this off topic, but WTF?:

A more apt analogy would be, whether or not you'd wait for Trichocereus flowers (which are more potent) instead of eating flesh.

Do the flowers contain large quantities of mesc? I've never heard that before. Off to do some brousing of the cacti sub-forums...

[Zen Peddler]

jj

Edited April 20, 2008 by Zen Peddler

[Zen Peddler]

Oops i missed my point. There are about four or five studies that DO demonstrate that mushroom bodies contain my active alkaloids than myscelia... Ill quote them in time.. .its been a while. Blues

[deXtrous]

Mycelium definitely does NOT contain active alkaloids. This has been discussed many many times on the Shroomery.

[naja naja]

Mycelium definitely does NOT contain active alkaloids. This has been discussed many many times on the Shroomery.

Phishing r we?

U r 100% incorrect in your statement! Get an education!