nitrogen Posted November 25, 2007 When people are saying this or that clone has a certain mescaline %, how do they know it is pure mescaline and not just total alkaloid %? What sort of analysis is being done? Some of the better known ones purport 2% or so mesc per dried weight - is this just someone doing an A/B extraction and weighing the product? Because if they are they're getting more alkaloids than just mescaline, especially if bridgesii is the starting material.. Also, there was a cactus potency thread here at SAB, but there was only like, 4 different clones listed, and the thread was closed - why would the thread be closed with only 4 clones listed? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
apothecary Posted November 25, 2007 A refined A/B procedure will only extract mescaline. You can confirm this with TLC. The thread wasn't closed per se, it's just not open for anyone to post in at will, it is a thread only for potency posts, not questions like this, which I am guessing is where you wanted to post? AFAIK there are more than 4 clones posted in there anyway. If you have some numbers, please contribute? Because if they are they're getting more alkaloids than just mescaline, especially if bridgesii is the starting material.. Thanks for the tip? I'm sure nobody here considered that ever before Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shruman Posted November 25, 2007 "Also, there was a cactus potency thread here at SAB, but there was only like, 4 different clones listed, and the thread was closed - why would the thread be closed with only 4 clones listed?" It aint closed but people are encouraged to only put results there ur more than welcome to contribute as are everyone else. I suggest u have a look & check out the purity comments they're interesting: http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/inde...?showtopic=9894 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nitrogen Posted November 25, 2007 (edited) That's interesting - we had a topic similar to this over at the nook and no one was able to say for sure that an A/B extracted only Mescaline - but some of those entries had TLC test to prove it eh? Were those A/B extractions then in that thread? They were all submitted by the same person, or were they just posted by that same person? I wonder why people seem to need much more of this "pure" mescaline than most of the literature states - people are taking up to a gram of these extracts with 500mg often being the point at which it becomes interesting - but older literature reports I've read put 500mg at the top of the dosage range (for the sulfate, which is weaker than the hcl) - so I was thinking that our extracts must not be that pure, or a mix of alkaloids... That and some people are saying they notice a difference between the clean, acetone washed extracts, and the tan stuff - shouldn't make any difference though if mescaline is the only alkaloid carried over... I can say for sure though that dry weight of cactus (that isn't dehydrated) is more like 5% of fresh weight, not 10% as the first poster in that thread says... So 95% water... Edited November 25, 2007 by nitrogen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
teonanacatl Posted November 26, 2007 (edited) I should have mentioned this earlier, the person who did those analysis was using ehrlich's reagent as he found reference to it giving mescaline as a red spot. However it was brought to my attention that mescaline may not actually react with ehrlich's reagent though I have no reason to doubt what he saw, perhaps it was a mixing of reagents. Anyway the rf value was approx that expected for mescaline and no other spots showed up so I have no reason to doubt that it is quite pure. Thanks for being concerned with the results that were obtained but all points you have raised have been discussed many many times. There is a section in the tests for mention of purity, if it doesnt mention TLC then it wasnt done. All samples submitted were crystalline solids from offwhite (medium pure) to whitish (pure). The method of extraction was a/b extraction, though the salting step was not an aqueous acid partition but rather an anhydrous pptation. I can say for sure though that dry weight of cactus (that isn't dehydrated) is more like 5% of fresh weight, not 10% as the first poster in that thread says... So 95% water... Good to see you did some tests yourself, the 10% is a value I obtained by averaging various cuts, it is I find a very good approximation when dealing with turgid plants. Your 5% suggests to me that the plant was partially dehydrated. 10% is quoted as a maximum water content thus shows a minimum potency value, though I suggest you dry samples completely for better data. The person who carried out the tests did dry quite a few of the samples and those that werent agree well with the 10% value. I wonder why people seem to need much more of this "pure" mescaline than most of the literature states - people are taking up to a gram of these extracts with 500mg often being the point at which it becomes interesting - but older literature reports I've read put 500mg at the top of the dosage range (for the sulfate, which is weaker than the hcl) - so I was thinking that our extracts must not be that pure, or a mix of alkaloids... Just a few years ago and probably now still many nookers chicken out at 300mg. Is it not hard to imagine people pushing the envelope? Indians at a peyote cerimony eat much more than 500mg of mescaline in a sitting. Though I would agree that some mescaline going around, dirty brown sticky stuff, is certianly far from pure. So inshort who cares what the doses are mescaline is mescaline and people have different tollerances. That and some people are saying they notice a difference between the clean, acetone washed extracts, and the tan stuff - shouldn't make any difference though if mescaline is the only alkaloid carried over... If you know someone who can tell the difference then subject them to a double blind test and see if they can determine which is which, $10 says they cannot. Its all in their heads. Sure other compounds may indeed be carried across, dimethoxyphenethylamine is a prime example and one would possibly have trouble removing that but the concentration will be negligable in terms of effects. If one wants all the alkaloids then do a ethanol extraction not a a/b extraction. Sure other alkaloids may have potentiating effects (shulgin has shown this) but I certainly think this idea has been blown out of proportion by many ethnoheads. Please feel free to contribute to the thread but observe the no discussion rule which is in place to stop stupid discussion getting in the way of an informative thread. I havent been to the nook in a long time, not as much interesting stuff coming out of there as their once was...... Edited November 26, 2007 by teonanacatl Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
