several KK242

[trucha]

KK242 cuzcoensis (The common seed grown thing that appears to be cuzcoensis mislabelled by Knize as peruvianus seeds)

KK242 bridgesii (or at least a bridgesii grown from bridgesii seed sold by Knize mislabelled as KK242 seed)

This is a basal pup from the column that can be seen behind it.

KK242 Rio Chillon new growth (obtained as live cutting directly from Knize)

Its sprouting from the bit lying on the ground behind it.

Edited September 2, 2007 by trucha

[Evil Genius]

he he, Knize has brought some very cool plants on the market! But we´ll need years to find out how these plants are related to each other. The KK242 Rio Chillon looks awesome! The KK242 bridgesii is also a stunner! I´m very thrilled what i get out of my thousands of KK242 seedlings! I sowed out a few thousands and i´m sure that there will be variability! How can someone recognize a KK242? I mean apart from the Knize labels? I´d probably overlooked the RIO CHILLON if i hadnt knew its a KK242. bye Eg

[M S Smith]

I'd say the Rio Chillon plant was just T. pachanoi, but I know Knize always associates it with T. peruvianus.

~Michael~

[trucha]

I suspect its an intermediate of pachanoi as it gets really chunky in the right conditions. Although Machael, based on your earlier posts I'm surprised you did not term it a macrogonus; )

I have seriously compromised it it by leaving it out unprotected for over 4 years including 4 Mendocino County winters. (That tip is 3 years of growth under seriously adverse conditions.) Its seen torrential rain, many hard freezes (the worst this year down into upper teens), a blistering summer up to 110 this last year (a truly freaky year), all while growing in unammended ground,

Its now in a nicer bed so we will see what the future brings. The plants in that bed are exploding with growth as would be expected.

I've got the original mother elsewhere here but it too is stil in native soil without drainage so is also growing as slowly. I'll get a photo taken at some time.

I do agree that there are no short spined peruvianus only somethign different. I'm not yet educated enough to know what they are but am hopeful we will find out someday.

Its new growth does look a lot like the HBG pachanoi or the CCC material.

I've yet to see it flower though.

I have long thought peruvianus Huancabamba was a pachanoi based on mine's appearance.

After seeing its assorted forms and finally seeing one flower in a friend's collection I'm not sure quite what to think. I'm not sure its either anymore but somewhere in between.

Images coming soon.

Edited September 2, 2007 by trucha

[Evil Genius]

Hi Trucha, it surprises me that it survived the winter without protection! Very cool indeed! I´ll try to get some Trichos in my garden over the winter too! Today i´ve also planted some Escobaria, Echinocereus, Opuntia and Cylindropuntia. I cant wait to see if they survive! bye Eg

[trucha]

If a person can access the Lamb's Exotic Collection backissues its fascinating what they managed to grow in an open ended cold frame in England that kept out winter rains and prevented the soil itself from freezing due to having a row of buried insulation at teh endge of the coldframe.

I'll pull together a list of what had no problems, what was a little challenged, what was majorly challenged and what few died. Since they were in very unideal conditions this is all the more facinating to me.

22oF is what I would suggest as a suggested minimum though for most of the pachanoi peruvianus sorts. One thing that helped here (I believe) was planting on slopes so that the coldest air could not pool around them but instead dropped away downhill. Once it gets into the teens all bets are off in terms of predicting anything will live. We could have had localized pockets of more warmth in the cactus garden (since they are more rocky and sunny) than in areas with thermometers. We also had an unusually dry winter. If it had gotten as cold after two months of solid rain I have no clue how well they would have fared although the last few winters we did get that wet and had temperatures of 25 a few times with NO losses even for the pachanois. I've lost many of them at the same temperature or even less extreme when living in Texas though (mostly in container grown plants).

Its still worth pushing their limits to learn what they really can tolerate. Winter wet can be a killer and often was in Texas but here in California I have had no winter lossses at all for bridgesii and some others that surprised me.

Macrogonus was not happy last year and some are still in shock. Alive but not happy.

Wedermannianus lecoriensis bit it last winter though.

Terscheckii just eats up the winter cold and wet and is quite happy if it gets enough sun. Its claimed to be safe down to either 0 or 6 F depending on who you ask but friends had some damage at 17 winter before last.

Its worth not risking anything you don't have a duplicate of until learning what they like.

In Texas I had some plants survive serious freezes one year only to die a year or two later in less extreme freezes. Its an interesting thing that brings me back to wondering about endophyte involvement and just what other factors I am perhaps not taking into consideration.

Edited September 2, 2007 by trucha

[trucha]

Here is the mother plant of Knize's Rio Chillon.

Growing in the same spot of unamended native soil for the last four winters, not thriving but surviving. The only alteration I did to the soil was to add a top layer of red lava to lessen erosion during winter rains.

Here is a pachanoi Knize sent me in the same order.

Its around 60% the diameter of the above.

Its growing around 2 feet from the column above and was stuck in the ground there at the same time.

Gotta love Knize despite his schizoid ID assignments!

I would however suggest that if they don't preserve their labels as far as coming from Knize there is little to no way to reliably recognize any of his 9 KK242s (or however many things he has really put out there with that label - I can count at least 11 things being in horticulture sold as KK242).

Edited September 2, 2007 by trucha

[trucha]

A picture of the tip of the mother of the KK242 Rio Chillon cutting from Knize not long after it arrived

The next image is another cutting I got directly from Knize.

This one was labeled

KK242 f. Matucana

Unlike a lot of what I got from Knize, these two "types" of KK242 actually had labels handwritten by Knize rubber banded to them.

[trucha]

These are not KK242 but were grown from Knize's seeds.

The first one was sold by Knize as seeds of nonnumbered pachanoi.

The next one was sold by Knize as pachanoi north coast Peru and numbered KK1688

Knize has used this same number for an unspecified peruvianus, for peruvianus North Peru and for sp. San Marcos.

Sometimes as more than one within the same year.

All of what is show below is on one plant.

a tip showing some maturity

a tip showing more maturity

a tip showing new growth on the same plant

The next image is a pachanoi tip cutting sold by Knize. This one arrived without a label in a shipment said to have multiples of both KK339 and KK591 in it (both from Ecuador)

Edited September 3, 2007 by trucha

[M S Smith]

Here's your typical KK242 that was grown from Mesa Garden seed many years ago.

~Michael~