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Klin Kava Bioassays...

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What do you think causes the nausea for you T? Is it because of the taste or is that why you hate the taste?

I do remember a bit of your early stories about total incapacitation, etc

I haven't tried any kava for over a year but I'll post a bioassay of the klin kava during the week -- but it will probably be redundant .. it sounds like a good product

Would definitely like to hear more about the different strains

I forgot to mention that in Vanuatu alone there are reports of up to 360 different varieties. I think the number of different varieties is exagerated a little because most of the islands like to think their kava is different and give their varieties a different name, even though it may be the same as their neigbouring island.

NB. A hot meal after a kava session will often bring about a resurgence of the kava affects.

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Has anbody sampled the 5 star klin kava yet and if you did how did you prepare it?

Five Star is different from the klin kava kava powder. I have made it very fine, maybe too fine, and requires more patients to prepare. To make it easier, first use a coarse strainer, maybe like a midgee screen or something half as coarse as fly screen for the first strain. When doing the fine strain use only small portions at a time. After squeezing the final strain, feel the mucas(fibres) if they are still oily masticate it through the fine sieve again in the solution already prepared.

Be patient when masticating.

Small portions at a time.

If anyone is finding it too difficult, please return it and it will be replace with the Klin kava powder.

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Five Star is different from the klin kava kava powder. I have made it very fine, maybe too fine, and requires more patients to prepare. To make it easier, first use a coarse strainer, maybe like a midgee screen or something half as coarse as fly screen for the first strain. When doing the fine strain use only small portions at a time. After squeezing the final strain, feel the mucas(fibres) if they are still oily masticate it through the fine sieve again in the solution already prepared.

Be patient when masticating.

Small portions at a time.

If anyone is finding it too difficult, please return it and it will be replace with the Klin kava powder.

what is the 5 star? the instant?

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Five Star is different from the klin kava kava powder. I have made it very fine, maybe too fine, and requires more patients to prepare. To make it easier, first use a coarse strainer, maybe like a midgee screen or something half as coarse as fly screen for the first strain. When doing the fine strain use only small portions at a time. After squeezing the final strain, feel the mucas(fibres) if they are still oily masticate it through the fine sieve again in the solution already prepared.

Be patient when masticating.

Small portions at a time.

If anyone is finding it too difficult, please return it and it will be replace with the Klin kava powder.

Thanks for that John. I have only got 200grams of this special hand chosen finest grade kava powder. Is the amount to use the same as your normal powder? How would you rate it in terms of potency next to your instant product? (which, by the way is a very rich complex, strong and yet sophisticated brew, oh my! :rolleyes: )

Edited by Agamemnon

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Hi John, good to see you here .. very interesting info about the industry, different strains and the way they are combined

My order of kava powder arrived in 2 business days...thanks :) I'll probably try some on Thursday or Friday

What are your thoughts, or anyone's thoughts really, on the use of lecithin / vegetable oils / mastication for the preparation of kava? Do you feel that those methods enhance the extraction/potency or actually alter the constituents or the ratio of actives being extracted?

Another question I have, just out of curiosity -- how is kava consumption traditionally affected by seasonal changes? ie rate/patterns of consumption in winter vs summer, the varieties used, etc ??

Thanks

Edited by coin

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...What are your thoughts, or anyone's thoughts really, on the use of lecithin / vegetable oils / mastication for the preparation of kava? Do you feel that those methods enhance the extraction/potency or actually alter the constituents or the ratio of actives being extracted?

I always use lecithin. Tried veg oil but found too messy, but ok in a pinch. I find that there is always an increase in potency though different depending on the few strains I've tried... as far as altering the constituents, only as far as extracting lactones left behind from straight water extraction, and so therefore perhaps the ratio. It's interesting to note that a solvent extraction yielded a dark brown'green resin on top of the to high lactone content/strong yellow thick oils below. This extract was a killer! After asking about the brown/green I tried a cup with only the strong-yellow, and the effects were no different. As this dark resin was doing nothing useful, I decided to discontinue that extraction method and stick to traditional, water with lecithin.

Best to be safe methinks :wink:

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You guys havent got 13 y.o virgins to masticate your kava?? :scratchhead:

Edited by Conan Troutman

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You guys havent got 13 y.o virgins to masticate your kava?? :scratchhead:

:( I use 45 y/o Inuit women....but they are good at mastication....mmmmm, mastication.

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Guest Øskorei

Coin, I also am a convert to lecithin and prepare kava in water. Several tests vs just water indicate a positive with the former.

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guy's, young virgin girls are not very good masticating your kava roots, old toothless woman are the go!!

only a toothless gum, compresses the roots in the right fashion!!

if teeth are used the roots get brused instead of tenderised...

thats why i garantie you thats my superior five star kava is prepared only by +70 toothless woman,

if quality matters, choose only planthelpers, haha.

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re lecithin and oil - I accidentally crystallised some kavalactones the other week [yes, contrary to popular and my previous belief, these lactones are actually crystalline, not oils]. I then dissolved these in alcohol, added lecithin. shook, and then added water incrementally while shaking. This should have formed the perfect emulsion as the lactones crash out when the alcohol gets below 70%. But it did not emulsify at all.

So I took a small amount of crude kava extract and tried the same. Not much happened except that soem of the yellow colour moved into the water and formed a mild emulsion. Bingo I thought, but then found out that again contrary to popular belief kavalactones are colourless to white. It appears I emulsified the flavokawain which is what gives the yellow colour.

I repeated the last experiment with crude extract [no solvent], oil and lecithin. An emulsion formed between the oil and the water, with the lecithin and plenty of flavokawain. The lactones dropped out within about 30 seconds, so obviously weren't emulsified.

I have also tried to dissolve pure lactones in oil with no effect. Dissolved crude extract in oil with only flavokawain dissolving.

The conclusions I have drawn from this are:

* kavalactones do not dissolve in oil.

* kavalactones do not emulsify

* flavokawain sparingly dissolves in oil

* flavokawain somewhat emulsifies with lecithin and oil.

Some myths that need to be dispelled:

* kavalactones are not oily by themselves. The oily feel of kava appears to be due to flavokawain and other oils. Lactones are solids / crystals, but appear to dissolve in some oils present in the kava plant. Once these oils are stripped away the lactones are solid crystals.

* kavalactones appear to be marginally soluble in water, so the more water is used the more lactones are extracted.

Some things to think about [will add more later]:

* flavokawain appears to be responsible for the kava induced skin condition and possibly for some of the physical side effects. Maybe even liver problems. There may be simple ways to eliminate these.

These are just preliminary results. I did not analyse all materials, so some errors may turn up when I get the results back, but the principle is solid.

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Interesting stuff t! Reaction to a solvent extract? What is the brown/green resin that pops up? Could a % of kavalactones be locked in that resin? or in the yellow product? I seem to remember a wet alcohol extraction was most effective, is this true?

questions questions :lol:

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Interesting stuff t! Reaction to a solvent extract? What is the brown/green resin that pops up? Could a % of kavalactones be locked in that resin? or in the yellow product? I seem to remember a wet alcohol extraction was most effective, is this true?

questions questions :lol:

yes, this work actually produced a lot more questions that it answered. Even simple stuff like that lactones are crystals and that the yellow is not due to them just blew me away cos the internet is full of the contrary and I never bothered to challenge those assumptions.

The brown green resin is a mix of lactones and flavokawain and possibly some other resin. The lactones are present in at least two different forms. One is as free form and the other is as an amino acid conjugate. I can't see the conjugate being soluble in alcohol, yet this is the lactone form that is most easily absorbed by the gut.

70% is used because below this the crude resin crashes out. Not sure if this is due to the lactones or the oils. The 30% water appears to also allow extraction of some of the amino acid conjugates.

I am trying to make various extract fractions to see which solvent pulls what. I can only guess at some of the things by assaying them or by comparing physical data, but will have full HPLC analysis eventually.

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* flavokawain sparingly dissolves in oil

* flavokawain somewhat emulsifies with lecithin and oil.

* flavokawain appears to be responsible for the kava induced skin condition and possibly for some of the physical side effects. Maybe even liver problems.

my intuion allways told me don't use milk to prepare kava, so here seems to be proof...

with those findings, one could easely remove, at least partly the unwanted flavokawain!

wishfull thinking say's, aceton and alcohol will pull more the flavokawin than the kavalactones, because this would nicly fit with what happen with the kava muck up.

Edited by planthelper

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Looking forward to it! :lol: . Crystalline lactones... the thought blows me away :blink:

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hmmm very interesting

when i first started preparing kava i tried veg oil & lecithin, then just stuck to oil for a while & i processed it in the blender

but after some time of sticking to traditional preparation (my version of it is re hydrating the powder to paste consistency for a while, pounded it with mortar & pestle if it is coarse, then 'massaging & milking' it through muslin) was always satisfactory .. i really couldn't notice much difference once you have the 'correct' technique ... the extra stuff seemed totally unnecessary

Edited by coin

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Looking forward to it! :lol: . Crystalline lactones... the thought blows me away :blink:

well, I wondered why pharma companies fuck around with depositing crude extracts onto silica powder in order to get a powder form of the lactones. I simply assumed lactones were liquid [ie resin], considering some other lactones I know are also liquid. So why aren't pharma co's using the pure crystalline lactones? I don't know, but I have the feeling there is a problem with the pure lactone. For starters it does not dissolve. I had some, but I needed to continually chew the crystals for about 15 minutes until they were as small as I could get them with my teeth. Like a paste. And still they did not dissolve. I found a crystal in my gums 16 hours later - that's how insoluble the stuff is. I would not be surprised if it went right through me wihtout dissolving. The acidic tummy would certainly make it less soluble and the gut is alkaline like the mouth, so that's appears no good either.

The effect from 200mg of the crystal was different to the kava experience. I felt a really sharp inebriation, but it was VERY mild and short and was overshadowed by a strong stimulation. At one stage my heart didn't feel too comfortable with the excitation. My mind got that sharpness you get on low dose kava, but my body got it too. I've got the feeling I only pulled out one of the lactones due to the solvent system I used and apparently it is a stimulating one. Conversely the remaining liquor has lost the mental clarity effect and is now only inebriating and sedating.

Again, I am pretty much in the dark on what is what until I get the analyses back which could be a minimum of several weeks.

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Thanks for that John. I have only got 200grams of this special hand chosen finest grade kava powder. Is the amount to use the same as your normal powder? How would you rate it in terms of potency next to your instant product? (which, by the way is a very rich complex, strong and yet sophisticated brew, oh my! :rolleyes: )

Nothing is as strong as the instant. I use 10grams of the Five Star Kava Powder but prepare it in small portions due to its fineness. I would rate it about 75% of the instant.

Edited by Klin Kava

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Hi John, good to see you here .. very interesting info about the industry, different strains and the way they are combined

My order of kava powder arrived in 2 business days...thanks :) I'll probably try some on Thursday or Friday

What are your thoughts, or anyone's thoughts really, on the use of lecithin / vegetable oils / mastication for the preparation of kava? Do you feel that those methods enhance the extraction/potency or actually alter the constituents or the ratio of actives being extracted?

Another question I have, just out of curiosity -- how is kava consumption traditionally affected by seasonal changes? ie rate/patterns of consumption in winter vs summer, the varieties used, etc ??

Thanks

I have only used Lecithan once but I know its extensively used in a nakamal in Florida to increase potency.

During the dryer seasons the kava is more dense (stronger per gram) than the wet season.With my extraction process it doesn't make a differents and the kava bars make allowances for the extra moisture in the kava.

There is hardly any winter here, it always t-shirt and shorts and it makes no difference to the consumption rate. It is not such a well known fact but there is a practise for the Ni-Vanuatu divers who source their own fish by diving, have a night on kava before they dive. They find it keeps them warmer in the depths and they relax more in the water, hold their breath longer and perform better (in the water that is).

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I have to say that klin kava is the best kava I,ve ever had and I,ve tried

quite a few over the years(I have deppression/anxiety problems).The five star was very

good but as John said

you really need to take your time preparing it.The standard dried

powder is also very good and alittle easier and quicker to prepare.The

instant is great,quick and easy to prepare and potent,also has a quite mild flavour.

I used 15 to 20 grams of the 5 star and felt nice and relaxed and mellow.

I tried 18g in 300 ml of the instant on a different day was happy and relaxed.

I tried 1 20g cup of the standard plus 1 8g cup of the instant,it was great for a little while,

then I started to feel a little pale and sick and I knew I had overdone it a little.I asked

a friend who was here with me if he was all right he said he was fine,just extremely relaxed.

I found if I kept still I was okay after about twenty minutes and then enjoyed the next

couple of hours.

I,ve used up to 100g of kava powder in one sitting before but it would be impossible for me

to do that with Johns high quality stuff.Its a pity that we,ve finally found the best supplier of

the best kava ever and now its over already.I prefer kava over valium.

If you like kava you better stock up and make it last.

Thank John that some of us have had the chance to use this great kava. :lol:

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i got around to trying some tonight but i haven't had kava for ages and i'm not really sure how i'm feeling, if that makes sense...will have some more tomorrow night & take some time to think about it.

one thing that is slightly irritating is how itchy it's made me feel!

first impression is that it smells very fresh, the rest i'll leave for later

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i got around to trying some tonight but i haven't had kava for ages and i'm not really sure how i'm feeling, if that makes sense...will have some more tomorrow night & take some time to think about it.

one thing that is slightly irritating is how itchy it's made me feel!

first impression is that it smells very fresh, the rest i'll leave for later

Itchiness!

What I have experienced on this topic is that there are generally two factors involved here. The first is an individuals reaction to kava or the person's raction to a particular Genotype of kava, the second is that generally people who don't regularly partake in Kava or are starting out, often (about 30% of people)get the scratchies. When I first started, I would scratch my head and neck, while others scratch their arms.

Last night I was talking to a Swedish chap who works on Santo Island. He partakes in kava regularly and is the only fellow I have met that finds his sex drive increases with a few (quite a few) shells of kava. He was drinking his favourite substance at a nakamal and noticed himself becoming itchy, he also commented on how strong the kava was. My assumption from this was that the kava most probably contained a kava genotype called "Palis" which is known for this reaction. The meat of this kava is full of flavokawain and is very yellow.

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I think I used about 90g of powder which was maybe too much for the "first" time? This was taken over a few hours..eight to ten hours later I was still very buzzed and right now am still itchy & the inside of my mouth still feels numb/slippery (I'm in night mode .. been awake all night). If the itching was any more intense it would have really bugged me. I wonder is it a mild allergic reaction? I will shave off my beard before taking any more :)

While the relaxation component is there, I wouldn't call it relaxing ..I also find it quite stimulating & at times I felt a bit angsty...but that is just me..I'm going through my usual winter blues. I was too buzzed to read/study so worked on a craft project all night. Co-ordination was fine, motivation was good, but attention was sloppy. Some libido rumblings also (as I get from many substances). In the past when I have taken too much kava in one sitting, I actually start to get bad-tempered...

(I assume my serotonin levels are low-ish at the moment)

Tonight or tomorrow night I will try taking less, over a longer period of time because my stomach was quite unsettled though I never felt any overwhelming nausea.

Edited by coin

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Came across this site in my wanderings... how much of this is shite and how much truth...?

Worried about the St John's Wort interactions in particular...

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