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Random drug testing an 'invasion of privacy'

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http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200706/s1939700.htm

A senior Victorian civil libertarian says random roadside drug testing has invaded people's right to privacy with no impact on the road toll.

Liberty Victoria spokesman Brian Walters SC warns Queensland motorists they risk returning false positive results for illegal drugs when random roadside testing is introduced.

The Queensland Government has announced a further delay to the introduction of testing because of concerns about accuracy.

Mr Walters says Victoria has had random drug testing for two years and the Victorian Government still cannot get it right.

"At this stage it has proven itself to be inaccurate and until it's demonstrated that this can be done effectively there isn't any point in proceeding with it," he said.

"Driving is not a human right. On the other hand, invasion of people's privacy should only be done when it can clearly be justified as something that will lead to greater road safety, and not as something which is part of a different agenda - that is a zero tolerance of drugs agenda."

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What its still not accurate?

WTF were all the trials for, if it proved it wasnt accurate why are they continuig?

Are the inaccuracies the same in NSW?

One thing I always wondered about is the test is supposed to only detect wether u have used a drug in the last 4 hours does that mean 4 hours from adminitration or what? & how could that possibly work? & would claiming u used 5 hours ago get u out of it.

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shruman, lots of links in this subforum about the first guy in VIC who got busted by this, media ruined his life for a positive amphetamine/cannabis result, even though he had not used either in over a month (confirmed by two independant labs).

Nor did the police apologise.

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Yeah I remember that poor bastard & the media circus surrounding him hence the question; What its still not accurate?.

But I remember seeing/hearing other media reports that said they got all the bugs worked out & from memory NORML (it might not have been but it was some group opposed to Cannabis laws) said the laws & application were appropriate.

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If its like other on the spot testing then its a simple colourimetric test which means lots of other compounds will set it off. Anything thats similar chemically will do it. Most drug testing is with a simple colourimetric test first which if positive goes to more accurate testing, would be shit to get a false positive anyway.

You could see how a false positive could put you in a lot of shit in a short time, especially the bomb detectors in the airports, even more so if you had the bomber stereotype. 2 secs after showing positive your smashed onto the ground lights out and you wake up naked and a dude saying spread em....

Apparently speed cameras if you take into account the error of the camera and the error on speedos then they have to extend the margin they give you as the results are not that accurate.

Edited by teonanacatl

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I think that the missing link in all this is basic roadside sobriety tests... yes, there'd be some people that can't drive stoned ,though lets face it, most of us can as we took most of our driving lessons ripped haha. Simply saying that any concentration is too much, is just a bit silly... I know plenty of people that have driven around almost crippled off painkillers for backs, cramps or migraines... people that drive with migraines...people that drive TIRED .... if someone has to swab your spit to work out that you are posing a risk on the road, I don't think you're posing that much of a risk... of course its all discretionary n all that, and I don't want to think about some of the fiends that my partner or daughter have to share the roads with... I don't care if its dope, speed, valium or sleep dep... if you shouldnt be driving, you shouldnt be driving.

But yeah... to simply say that any concentration is enough to impair you... silly stuff. I was talking with someone a while ago and we worked out you should have to get tested driving on whatever it is you tend to take recreationally or medicinally, and be given a rating of some kind... I know I can drive better on half a dozen cones than most people on the road see mto be able to manage straight, which is a bit scary. Thats not my bias, that is plenty of passengers taking time to mention that I can drive my arse off (those windy, mountainous roads I learned on that do it... one or two of em are nice enough drivers roads that they use em to film BMW and Audi ads). Same goes for speed limits, the car you drive, the insurance you pay... we dont expect everyone to be equally good at running, writing, dancing... but expect driving to be a universally developed skill... bit silly too.

don't drive on speed buds or smack... just load up on cough syrup, mushies and cough mixture, theyre safe donchaknow :P

drive safe

GD

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I dont drive, i dont even have my liscence :P but the reason I dont drive is driving requires that everyone on the road near you knows that they are doing and are in control, I just dont like those odds, too much entropy :) Im happy riding at the moment though to. Id rather that people were smart enough to be able to tell when its unsafe for them to drive, but thats not gonna happen. Perhaps cars need a test you can undertake before you start the car, a little video game to test your response times and state of mind etc.

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Are you sure? I reckon if there was a cool video game in every car, that would double the amount of stoned drivers overnight :P

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lol but to start the car you must pass the video game, so if they can pass then they are capable of driving, though it wouldnt take into account the states which one goes through on a drug for instance if they just smoked it or just popped somthing it might be a different story 1hr later. Who has 100% control over what a drug does to them anyway?

Edited by teonanacatl

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Perhaps cars need a test you can undertake before you start the car, a little video game to test your response times and state of mind etc.

The UK was trialling this idea - a more scientific version of the "walk a straight line" test - basically to test reflexes & concentration. Only took a minute or two. I reckon this is a great idea as it picks up the drivers who are tired & whatnot - wonder if it'll ever make it over here? The swab test is so flawed as to be ridiculous - I hope this means they're giving up on it.

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perhaps they need a helping hand to get rid of it. Find out what the colourimetric reagent is then stock up on some stuff that makes it go off but isnt illegal, if everyone uses it then the number of false positives goes up and their credibility goes down.

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That would be a whole lot of trouble to go through for each false positive.

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I reckon it won't be that long till something like (tongue scanners, or something similar) will be required to start the engine of one's car, similar to the breathalyser immobilisers that don't let you drive unless you're under a certain alcohol limit. Biometrics are being introduced and will begin to be implemented into western countries at a rapid rate once they fabricate enough 'world events' to implement them without protest under the pretence of 'national security'

Edited by SaBReT00tH

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That would be a whole lot of trouble to go through for each false positive.

Yeah for the person and the cops, imagine a line up of cars with everyone testing positive..... much more work for the cops and it wouldnt take long for them to crack. Apparently just heard on the radio 1/10 drivers test positive to an illicit drug.

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I think I see what teo is saying, invent some kick ass coffee which is roasted with herbs that would cause a false positive for meth or something then have a BIG promotional thing giving out 25,000 half priced coffees on a holiday when the spit patrol is out in force. Now I just gotta find a crazy millionaire that has a problem with the drug laws :unsure:

I reckon it won't be that long till something like (tongue scanners, or something similar) will be required to start the engine of one's car
No problem there, all I'll need to start my car is my dog and a bit of bacon :wink:

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lol sell it as a problem with privacy and a waste of tax payers money then open a stall down the road from them lol.

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But yeah... to simply say that any concentration is enough to impair you... silly stuff.

Thats what Im concerned about - big difference between someone smoking their first few cones ever and hopping in a car and someone who's been smoking 20 years and quite experienced with it while driving. Its very variable and australian law enforcement doesn't seem to have the discretion required to address those complexities fairly and un-emotionally.

Alcohol is different - no matter your experience, it affects your motor skills in a marked way if you have enough.

Of course while all this is happening we're still waiting for many black spots on our roads to be fixed or converted to dual carriage. Whatever happened to the Bicenntenial highway scheme schedule? I know they have money because Ive paid them half my income in speeding tickets! :lol:

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Alcohol is different - no matter your experience, it affects your motor skills in a marked way if you have enough.

Not only that, but it impairs your ability to accurately judge the extent of that loss of motor skill - so you think you're ok. Cannabis tends to enhance any concerns that you might not be ok, so you are less likely to drive if you are really unable to.

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One thing about the drugs is you may feel comfortable driving but what if somthing happened and you had to make a quick choice, would you beok with that. A friend of mine use to drive stoned all the time infact when he didnt he crashed lol anyway he hit a cyclist and freaked and ran, not good. I know people who dont account for any loss of control with cannabis, they still speed and are dangerous, so its not as simple as cannabis isnt bad to drive on. Plus most regular cannabis users use it everyday, some stoned all the time, if you do this with alcohol then your called an alcoholic. But I remember schoolies and by the end of the week I had to drink alcohol to feel normal and there was a lot less imparement when i was drunk then sober. Personally Id rather people were in the best frame of mind whilst driving that they could possibly be, that may mean stoned if your a 20 year stoned all day smoker.

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^^^

There may be something to that idea. Obviously not smart for alcohol, but some psych test have shown ppl remember better when in a similar set/setting to when they learnt the original, and anecdotal evidence seems to back that up for heavy pot smokers. Erowid had a very good section on cannabis & driving, which I can't find at the moment, but it's in there somewhere, and there's lots of smaller articles of interest too.

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