Ace Posted April 26, 2007 Hi Guys, I am after a good complete tek for peres grafting. I have searched through our archives and at a few other sites (the Nook etc), but cant find a complete tek. If there isnt one actually on the net, then I'm happy to make and upload one, but I need some q's a'ed before doing so. Questions: 1. How tall should the peres stock be for ideal grafts? 2. Can an unrooted stock be used? 3. What is the ideal temp/humidity for brand new grafts? 4. What is the ideal temp/humidity for mature grafts? 5. Can mature peres grafts be grown outdoors (temp/weather permitting)? 6. What do you do to prevent the peres from branching after the graft is made? 7. Is it necessary to keep all the leaves intact on the stock? 8. After how long can a new graft be taken out of the humid area? 9. Are taller stocks better for fast growth? 10. What light cycles are best for new/mature grafts? 11. At what age/size can a scion be degrafted or regrafted to a trich/other stock? 12. Is the very tip of the peres best for the graft, or is it better when lower on the stock? No doubt I'll have many other questions, but for now, those should keep everyone busy As I said, a complete tek would be best, but I'm happy to do a write up for myself and the rest of the newbs in the Peres department Ace Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
XipeTotec Posted April 26, 2007 good idea ace.... it would be great to have a tek for us peres noobs. It would be great for you to write one up, so that we can have a nice printable version, perhaps even with pics. another question i would like answered is in regards to grafting fairly young seedlings..... firstly, when i have attempted seedling grafts, having cut the seedling... i notice that fluid moves around under the surface of the skin... is this detrimental to the seedling? secondly.... seedlings need to be kept in the shade.., is this the case once they are successfully grafted. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ace Posted April 26, 2007 I am happy to knock something up, but I'd like to see most of these questions answered before doing so, otherwise it will be full of holes I'd be happy to convert it to a PDF for download too Got me wondering - is there a small programme that I can download that converts Word Docs to PDF? For some reason, I already have that option with my Excel programme, but it doesnt seem to have it with word... Or is it just an option within the existing progs that I just need to tamper with? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ENtiTY Posted April 26, 2007 There is a progy you can get that allows you to print to a PDF file from word. Basically you make the word document and instead of printing it to paper, the progy prints it to a PDF format file. Can't remember the damn name though. Have to dig through some of my old software at home to try and find it. Any one else know the name, there is prolly a few that perform the same function do doubt. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ace Posted April 26, 2007 Got a free download site for a PDF converter if anyone is interested: HERE It seems to be 13.19MB activePDF PrimoPDF is a free tool for high-quality PDF creation, comprising a user-friendly interface that enables printing to PDF from virtually any Windows application. Additionally, PrimoPDF provides the ability to optimize PDF output for screen, print, ebook, and prepress, secure PDF files with 40- or 128-bit encryption, and add document information (e.g. title, author, subject, keywords) to converted PDF files. Full support for 64-bit machines, double byte character and non-TrueType font support, enhanced support for Microsoft Windows 98, ME, NT, and Vista and improved PDF output also now available. Please note that this download is for 32-bit machines only. A 64-bit installer is available at the developer's Web site. Version 3.1 introduces the ability to merge and append PDF files. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ThunderIdeal Posted April 26, 2007 somebody answer all of those questions. with absolutely no mistakes. okay? good. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
teonanacatl Posted April 26, 2007 you guys realise that its all relative and you may aswell make it up foryourself as you go, will get much more of an idea about it. Im happy to answer the questions but they wont be exact short answers. My advice, get some peres and just grow some and try the grafting. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
XipeTotec Posted April 26, 2007 (edited) you guys realise that its all relative and you may aswell make it up foryourself as you go, will get much more of an idea about it. Im happy to answer the questions but they wont be exact short answers. My advice, get some peres and just grow some and try the grafting. i hear what you are saying teo, in regards to experience.. and im sure ace and I both have the basic knowledge to do it. although any knowledge and advice we receive can only give us better odds of success early on, while we discover what works and doesnt for ourselve. Edited April 26, 2007 by shroomytoonos Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hagakure Posted April 26, 2007 1. How tall should the peres stock be for ideal grafts? taller stock is more unstable and the loph will pup more to keep balance. but it will grow faster. shorter stock is more stable and will have less pups. but it will grow slower 2. Can an unrooted stock be used? yes it has been done but preferably have some roots on the cutting first. i wait till leaves look healthy and hydrated 3. What is the ideal temp/humidity for brand new grafts? i keep em under a 2 litre bottle with the bottom cut off inside. place it on a dish with some water in the bottom. evaporation from the soil and the dish will keep it humid enough most of the time. 4. What is the ideal temp/humidity for mature grafts? i keep mine inside in a fishtank with a fluro light above it 5. Can mature peres grafts be grown outdoors (temp/weather permitting)? yes this is done but i have no experience with it 6. What do you do to prevent the peres from branching after the graft is made? get some tweezers, a blade, anything and cut of those branching tips when they first appear. they are there because not enough auxin is coming down from the loph yet, as the loph gets bigger, branching will be inhibited by the auxin 7. Is it necessary to keep all the leaves intact on the stock? no necessary but better. more leaves = more photosynthesis = more growth. they drop off on old grafts anyway. 8. After how long can a new graft be taken out of the humid area? wait until it looks healthy. i unscrew the top of the 2 litre bottle after a while to introduce a bit of fresh air and drop humidity, then i take bottle off. 9. Are taller stocks better for fast growth? yes. there is a cut off point thouyggh where incresing the height any more wont increase the growth rate as much. 10. What light cycles are best for new/mature grafts? i have a fluro light i turn on when i wake up and turn off when i go to bed, worked okay for me so far 11. At what age/size can a scion be degrafted or regrafted to a trich/other stock? any time i guess. bigger is better in some cases i assume but i dont have any experience. 12. Is the very tip of the peres best for the graft, or is it better when lower on the stock? i graft close to the tip. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phloom Posted April 26, 2007 good idea Ace, and cheers for the info Hagakure.... grafting onto newer growth would be better yeah, the older stuff gets a bit woody for proper contact between scion and stock? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rev Posted April 26, 2007 i know but im not going to tell learning by experience will do you so much good just get on and have a bloody try eh? you arent going to lose a digit then maybe you can teach me something same goes for shrooms "just do it" who cares if you fail, you will learn Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
XipeTotec Posted April 26, 2007 yeah, but can a seedling graft tolerate more direct sunlight? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rev Posted April 26, 2007 (edited) i could tell you' but first what do you think ? and why? ?? are there areas that are mre or less susceptible? how wil you mangae this?> Edited April 26, 2007 by Rev Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ace Posted April 26, 2007 Thanks guys - Hagacure, your words have been very handy. Rev and Teo, I can totally agree with you, but like shroomy said, the more assistance the better. I have a few seedlings to try out, but I'd like as high a sucess rate as possible. If this is what it takes, then this is what I must do A lot of my questions, i could probably answer myself, but it is good to see other peoples ideas, and if they differ from my thoughts. I have a bit to go on from here, so I will try and do a bit of a write up over the weekend, and if I have enough time on top of that, I might have a shot at about 3-5 peres/loph grafts I will keep you lot in the loop with what ever I come up with Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
teonanacatl Posted April 27, 2007 Your sunlight Q shroomy, it can be either, if you want to put it in full sunlight then work out a way you can do it so it doesnt burn. Ive tried things as people have written them but they are never suited to how i want to do it so i work it out myself, much more rewarding. First tip though it learn how to grow peres well and how different cultivation conditions change them, once you can do this you can do the grafts as your graft will require conditions like a peres. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
XipeTotec Posted April 27, 2007 thanks guys.... i look forward to spring Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
teonanacatl Posted April 27, 2007 taller stock is more unstable and the loph will pup more to keep balance. but it will grow faster.shorter stock is more stable and will have less pups. but it will grow slower I think its more to do with more rapid growth rather then balance. I recently cut all my large grafted stocks down to make them smaller as the higher ones werent very managable. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ace Posted April 27, 2007 Wouldnt the balance be easily managed with a simple stake of some sort - even a bamboo skewer or something to help the peres stay upright - this way you get the best growth? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
occidentalis Posted April 27, 2007 I think he was talking about balance metaphorically rather than physical 'falling over' type balance. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hagakure Posted April 27, 2007 i meant physical falling over balance. thats just something i heard over at the nook. i havent tested it out thouroughly yet but that other graft i did is showing some evidence of it. its not the best photo but if you look at the graft it is tilting over to the left. there are three new pups and they are all pupping out from the right hand side. seems to balance the the growth. plants have very cool chemical messenger systems to make sure they grow upright. this theory needs more testing (tall graft secured so it cant move on top) but my current hypothesis is that large amounts of pups are to stabalie the graft. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ace Posted April 27, 2007 (edited) This is what I got so far (in a nutshell): Pereskiopsis Grafting Get a peres plant about 6-8 inches tall and a small cactus seedling (*both must be in active growth for a successful graft) Cut the tip of the peres (about 5mm from the tip) off with a sharp razor blade Cut the bottom 1/3 off the seedling, leaving the top sitting on the razor Get a peres leaf, break it in half and put a bit of the ooze on the tip of the peres (the fresh wound) Slide the seedling off the blade and onto the wound Push the seedling down slightly to ensure it stays on fairly well Put the new grafted plant under a 2L bottle-dome for about 2-7 days Resume watering as usual (about 1-2 times per week, depending on size of pot) New growth of the scion (seedling) should be visible in 1-3 weeks Keep grafted plant under fluoro lighting until graft has resumed growth Remember to label each graft individually and take pics for future reference As the pereskiopsis throws out shoots, keep these pricked out to keep the scion growing as fast as possible (these will eventually stop, but not until the scion produces enough auxin to prevent it) Is there anything else to note? Edit: Can the bottom of the seedlings be grafted too? I've heard of it being attempted, but not sure if its worthwhile. I will do a pictorial for my PDF document if I have some successes in my grafts (I hope to be starting over the weekend) Edited April 27, 2007 by Ace Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hagakure Posted April 27, 2007 some people say straight after grafting you should put it in the dark and not water it for a while. i dont do this but thats what i have heard. there are lots of different ways you can do it, the is no one correct way. from this perspective i agree with rev and teo. experiment and play around with the technique. that said, a good guide would be helpfull. when i started my first few seedlings dried out, i tried using superglue to seal them but eventually found a stable temperature and humidity is the key. i would have lost less seedlings if i knew some more of the very basics originally. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ace Posted April 27, 2007 i would have lost less seedlings if i knew some more of the very basics originally. Exactly what I'm trying to avoid And besides, it would be good to have a basic tek, in simple to understand terms (as above) that people can start with, then go from there to find their ideal process. I will stick with this to start with, then tweak it and share my results so the rest of us newbs can learn from our mistakes and avoid as much loss as possible Thanks for all your contributions guys, I'll try to do a write up with pics and all asap Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rev Posted April 27, 2007 (edited) ill add to that its good practice to strip the few nodes just below the graft it seems to help the scion take sorry for being unhelpful before i know you know why though, i knew about whats printed above by researching all i could find over at the nook andelsewhere but still lost many of my first tries theres a skill in the handling process and the timing, and visual skills in selecting and matching stocks and scions grafting is surgery after all no tek can ever replace having a go and learning by mistake Edited April 27, 2007 by Rev Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Auxin Posted April 27, 2007 shouldnt it also be mentioned that one should make sure the vascular rings of both stock and scion are in contact in at least one point? I almost exclusively see pics of people top grafting seedlings or pups, has anyone attempted areole grafting or side grafting? Side Areole Side grafting could be great for novelty, if nothing else, just to see the look on someones face when you show them a "peyote tree" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
