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wit the deregulation in NSW the 3 big companies started scouting for customers outside their original range

normall i ignore this kinda stuff but the offer was

100% green at the same price we paid country energy

no obvious catches in the fine print

so we switched

i always wanted to have it but was shitty about the obvious rort to charge people more for it

esp when using existing infrastructure

the extra wasnt small either. when you had little $ it added up

i think they should set mandatory targets for renewables for any grid, not just let the wealthy choose to pay more

http://www.integral.com.au/index.cfm?objec...C402043721A6878

so who knows about this green energy?

anyone else got it

is it legit?

a recent article in ReNew magazine i buy rated it fairly well

more to add on that later

i use elctrical energy to actively heat and cool my house

ive added insulation, a verandah to shade the west and ghope to have the north lightly shaded by spring, we put in whirligigs in the roof and if i had a windfall id paint the roof with REFLECT paint ( TiO impregnated paint). the yard is cooler now its full of shrubs and trees

a woodheater is not an option and i can never insulate the walls or floor

just curious if by using this green energy to add to this ive really reduced my footprint?

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wind farms cause mass carnage to local bird life and have all but wiped out sum colonies of bats where they are located. It screws with there sonar and they get swatted out of the sky.

I'm still undecided on the ways we produce this so called green energy. Just be aware that not all green energy is actually that green.

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It's all a farce.

If you live in an area that actually generates green power, you're probably already getting it.

If you live elsewhere and are paying for it, you're getting ripped off.

All power generated is connected to the supply grid and is then usable by anyone connected to the grid. They can't put 'green' energy in at one end and send it to just one house.

Of course there is the possibility that unless a fair percentage are willing to pay for the privilege, it will be forgotten.

And, as naja says, there is very little available in the way of truly 'green' electricity, and wind-farms are the most environmentally-sound option I can think of.

The trick is to use as little electricity as possible. There are many ways to achieve things using the sun's heat (heat water, make ice), gravity (pump water up hill), etc. if you really want to reduce your impact on the planet. But all these require technology to produce the parts etc, so you don't ever get a free lunch.

ed

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It's all a farce.

If you live in an area that actually generates green power, you're probably already getting it.

If you live elsewhere and are paying for it, you're getting ripped off.

All power generated is connected to the supply grid and is then usable by anyone connected to the grid. They can't put 'green' energy in at one end and send it to just one house.

Of course there is the possibility that unless a fair percentage are willing to pay for the privilege, it will be forgotten.

We all know this, but it doesn't mean it's a farce. If enough people pay for green power, the power company has to supply that percentage of power to the grid from green sources. So if the customer base becomes significant then they may actually have to increase the levels of generation from renewable sources. The potential being that 100% of customers are paying for green energy, then the supplier has to supply 100% of the grid generation from green sources.

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Some green energy is good some is crap like anything you have to ask more than the salesman is actually able to tell you. Check out http://www.acfonline.org.au/uploads/res_Gr...ricityWatch.pdf for a scorecard and raring of many of the options. If you get it for exactly the same price as normal electricity it probably isnt one of the best ones. If you want more detail contact ACF direct.

Windpower placed in the wrong location can be very bad, but if planned properly offers electicity generation comparably priced to coal.

I dont agree that its all a farce, although there is a large amount of greenwash going on. It is important to ask questions of the salespeople as they need to educate themselves on these issues related to the way their product is built. If your money is going towards investment in renewable energy even if that energy isnt the precise electrons reaching your home then that is better than continuing to use coal.

It is also a statement that if you are offered the choice of green or not at the same price and you choose green.

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Does anyone get the feeling that the power companies are holding our environment to ransom?

These bastards are basicaly saying pay us more or we will fuck ur environment & use our natural resources, these companies make billions of our resources & pollute our environment then turn around & say hey theres an alternative but ur gonna have to pay to fix the problem we created.

I believe these companies should b forced or at least cohersed to spend there own money on going "green" by the govt.

I think these companies are just passing the buck.

Edited by shruman

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Guest Øskorei

For those that are making long-term changes to their lifestyle in order to create a 'greener planet', the small surcharge per quarter is a tiny price to pay. The Federal government has been doing very little over the years to make sound contributions towards alternative energy, so it's been up to the utilities industry to initiate change. For all we know, it might have been launched as a marketing tool to attract socially conscious customers to their 'brand' of energy provisions since deregulation (hence propping up their customer database to instill shareholder confidence) it is doubtful that they are raking in the billions as a result of this shift away from coal.

But as we as a species move towards a collective appreciation on the green movement (its becoming quite fashionable lately) there WILL be elements of industry that stand to make many millions - and their intentions will be purely fiscal. Is that such a bad thing, considering the positive outcomes for everyone?

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i agree

but the cold reality is money is tight for so many people

i live 'outa town' so i get the benefit of SFA mortgage, but downside of lower pay

I just cant imagine how id posibly be able to rent these day. i met somebody recntly in my position - single income family with younguns - paying 300 a week for a crappy semirural house in NNSW

if we are going to save the world then those who made the money out of ruining it need to chip back in. 'just a little bit more' can really lead those on the edge to a long term or acute and real decline into poverty.

The govt subsidises all kinds of bullshit enterprises. surely it can take some of its 'future fund' and offset it by reducing the fuel levy on biofuels or cutting taxes for the sustainable energy income component of energy companies

we have to make Dirty coal and fossil fuels energy show their true cost, then market forces will drive investment in clean energy

look at teh horrific power of managed investmnet funds in australia. why not channel that into renewable energy targets?

tax write offs for the rich, affordable clean energy for the poor, good internationa standing for the govt?

i like capitalism but you have to keep it on a choker chain and use baits

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check this out

had some great reviews on renewable energy and some interesting interviews

http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/content/200...nergy/video.htm

I dont think resources and employment should be managed by the same person as it creates a jobs and economy vs the environment issue kinda like religion and politics.

Either way no matter how many people buy green energy there are still issues as to how much green energy is actually being produced in australia and how much is sold.

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i was a sales rep for a couple of months for an "alternative" power company (i won't mention names) this company basically used your bill to pay for "green energy" to be put into the grid.

while this is a good thing, the fact is, is that basically 98% of that comes from snowy river hydro and other dams. very very little of the so called "green energy" comes from others sources. and the company is heavily endorsing the building of new dams, which certainly isn't too "green" to say the least. though at this stage anything is better than coal or nuclear.

i deffinately would support this company over existing coal supporting companies, but at the end of the day this company is just another corporation trying to rip people off and make a massive buck. after 2 months i gave up on it because i couldn't get ANY info out of my bosses WHATSOEVER. all the had to tell me was how to fool people into saying yes and signing a contract.

looking back i don't know why i even thought i should do that job, i couldn't sell anyrthing if my life depended on it. i was naieve and thought they were actually totally sincere.

..... actually i shouldn't ditch them too hard they're better than most of the shit out there.

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I agree, hydro is dodgy. That is why it is better to ask specifically for wind or solar. There is a real trend in environmental industries to employ people who know fuck all about the issues, all they are good at is selling shit.

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Guest Øskorei
but the cold reality is money is tight for so many people
My green energy contribution is $20 per quarter. You can't tell me that people can't afford $7 a MONTH ! That's less than the price of a couple of beers. Heck, not even one beer at a fancy-arse pub or club. Better yet, from your first post it sounds like yours is free, so people can shop around for an alternative service provider if they have the impetus.
if we are going to save the world then those who made the money out of ruining it need to chip back in

Rather than deflecting the blame from ourselves as consumers and onto the industries supplying the services, we each need to admit that our habits are destructive, and face ourselves as key contributors to the planet's downfall. The industry is supplying goods to a soceity that is using their product without persuasion. Unlike other goods & services, electricity can't be talked up in order for customers to feel a need to use more. There's no inherent 'fun' in using energy in the house, it's not tasty, it's not the next 'in-thing' endorsed by a pop star. It just is !

Everybody need to be part of the future, big business and single entities included. Admission of guilt, as humbling it may be to one's ego, is the first step in activating deliberate changes to lifestyle, consumer goods awareness and self-education. Not one person living in a built-up society such as Australia can honestly say their hands are clean.

Let's hope that there will be a LOT of money to be made on this. If that's what it takes to initiate real environmental change, so be it. As disgusted as I am by "Corporation Incorporated" as a whole, better we know that the greedy pigs are making their dough out of solar alternatives & wind farms than hostile takeovers, stock market manipulation and unethical practices.

EDITED: For Spelling Corrections

Edited by Øskorei

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yes its an extra $7 a week - not much

unless you are on a fixed income like many are

so thats $7 extra PLUS the extra dollar or two telstra added to your line rental, plus the increase in fuel price, plus the increase in rent or interest rates

plus the medical bills at a non bulk billing GP for you and the family, and the medicines

and holy shit - this weeks grocery shopping bill has gone up hasnt it!

and theres always more just around the corner

if its really 'only' $7 more (and its never 'only $7' at a shareholders meeting)

they can absorb into their profit margins

rather than expect it to be taken off essential operating costs of joe public

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Guest Øskorei

Effectively, the government should be picking up the tab, pure and simple. Many of us pay significant income tax per year in order to fund and support the likes of public schooling, the baby bonus, heath care and child-related government handouts. For those that do not utilise these handouts, there is little gain for contributors in funding other people's families if they make the bad decision to have a child when they can hardly afford it. I for one would prefer that a portion of my tax dollar was not used to reward a poor family for child-bearing, but used to create sustainable energy solutions, or at least subsidise private industry more than present contributions are. Regrettably, we have no say in how our taxes can be directed.

If people living on the low-income poverty line are quite willing to take more than they contribute with government funded schemes, then it is hardly a big ask to request that each household makes the sacrifice of one less glass of beer, one fewer CD (or other such luxurious non-essential goods) per month as a respectful sign of goodwill towards the system in which they so often hold their hands out to.

There are solutions, and they rest in the hands of all of us once we recognise our erroneous actions.

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If people living on the low-income poverty line are quite willing to take more than they contribute with government funded schemes, then it is hardly a big ask to request that each household makes the sacrifice of one less glass of beer, one fewer CD (or other such luxurious non-essential goods) per month as a respectful sign of goodwill towards the system in which they so often hold their hands out to.

you are all heart bro, all heart

dont you know your seemingly well to do lifestyle depends on other people being underpaid or not paid? here and abroad

im sure youd change your tune if you lost a limb or an eye at work, and/or your job

re: not being paid

you think these pensioners, unemployed and under-employed (the mysterious void where all those missing unemployed have been sucked to), arent contributing because they arent being paid?

The unseen australia runs on volunteers at schools, CFS, disability support, CWA, social welfare, bush regeneration and landcare efforts.

if you judge a persons worth by their income youll create a society not worth having ( scum floats dont you know )

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Guest Øskorei

First of all, you misread my statement of $7 per MONTH as per week. For your clarity, the contribution to green energy funding in my case is $1.67 per week. Less than a bar of chocolate, so hardly a sacrifice to anyone, yet potentially beneficial to everyone.

Secondly: your last two posts have made not one single mention of the subject matter relating to either sustainability or green energy solutions.

Thirdly: I fail to see the need for veiled personal attacks, Nor is it reasonable for you to misconstrue my statements. I make no mention of being adverse to taxpayer funded illness/injury support, nor do I think veterans or the aged should be unsupported. However I am uncomfortable with taxpayer funds supporting/rewarding people to have children. In most cases, starting a family is a personal choice, not an unavoidable circumstance. Joe Public should not be expected to support this, when there are far more beneficial directives to spend on. Please read posts properly before flying off the handle.

Fourthly: And I actively participate in no less than three unrelated volunteer positions regularly. One of which you included as an example. All heart indeed *grumble grumble*

Therefore your uneducated/uninformed comments are hardly salient. Please stick to the subject matter at hand, as I refuse to address any off-topic falsehoods & muck-raking you may choose to respond with.

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I've been on green energy since it was first introduced in victoria in the late 80s. Even at a time when I was living on rice and soy sauce for weeks on end I did not change my energy plan. I've seen my green energy contribution going up from just a few cents per week to over $30 per month, with the last hike about 4 years ago being a letter from my supplier saying that my 100% premium will now be a 50% premium. I upgraded again.

There are serious flaws in the system, including the fact that deregulations basically meant the companies could screw their green customers, and that wood chips are counted as renewable energy source :BANGHEAD2: , but I also know that my contribution has helped to support policies where mandated green energy production has increased every few years. Countries that do not have such voluntary contribution schemes also do not have power industries delivering green power.

if I had been given the choice about my source of energy I would have selected solar at all times, regardless of what silly surcharge it would have cost. I've also lived in solar homes for several years and we will hopefully have wandjina on 100% solar within a year or two as well.

There is a really simple solution to our domestic power needs - loans for solar systems. If we were to get government loans to get a solar system that is 100% self sufficient then we could pay the government back just like we currently pay for our power. Now, THAT would be an investment into this country's future and security. But no, the only peopel who can afford solar are those in their 40's who have the mortgage half way paid off, or the young ones who are willing to sacrifice most creature comforts and thus get away with a 3K system.

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I think that the reality of 'buying energy' from private industry is that the companies will rip consumers off as much as they think they can get away with. Having run large-scale maintenence and construction projects for both the government and the private sector, I can assure you that the *sole* concern of non-government large-scale industry is money. Preventative maintenence etc. is a thing of the past with such organisations, just make it run 'till it totally shits itself and then replace and pass cost to consumer (usually with a small increase in profit-margin).

Trusting such companies to spend "green" dollars appropriately is ridiculous.

Better spending the money funding appropriate research, or just using less electricity.

And I'm surprised at the interest in solar panels.

It's quite doubtful whether they actually produce a net gain in energy or not (and that's under optimal conditions). I remember reading some research in the last few years of cells with a far greater efficiency than those currently available. Anyone up on the latest stuff in this regard?

ed

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And I'm surprised at the interest in solar panels.

It's quite doubtful whether they actually produce a net gain in energy or not (and that's under optimal conditions). I remember reading some research in the last few years of cells with a far greater efficiency than those currently available. Anyone up on the latest stuff in this regard?

Synchronistically I spoke to a renewable energy industry expert today about this very issue. He thought there were three main areas of solar research which are looking promising to deliver results in the next couple of years. One is Origin Energy's sliver cell technology (Aussie company, featured on Catalyst a few weeks ago), which will be on the market within a year or two.

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Synchronistically I spoke to a renewable energy industry expert today about this very issue. He thought there were three main areas of solar research which are looking promising to deliver results in the next couple of years. One is Origin Energy's sliver cell technology (Aussie company, featured on Catalyst a few weeks ago), which will be on the market within a year or two.

I thought the sliver cell technology got sold off to a european company due to lack of funding no help from the government? looks like a revolution in solar power but.

Solar power is a realy good way to go, if u dont mind only watching T.V for an hour a day (hard for a 5-10 yr old kid believe me I know, luckily I was an outdoor kid on 100 acres), I would suggest a small wind generator to supplement power on overcast days, their actually pretty cheap now and efficeint as they have the potential to generate power 24 hrs not just when the sun shines.

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And I'm surprised at the interest in solar panels.

It's quite doubtful whether they actually produce a net gain in energy or not (and that's under optimal conditions). I remember reading some research in the last few years of cells with a far greater efficiency than those currently available. Anyone up on the latest stuff in this regard?

ed

I did some reading a couple of years back in Renew magazine that most solar panels could payback its energy production in three years, some less than two. That grew to eleven if you used a battery. Citings of solar panels not paying back electricity come from the early days of space travel, as paying back the energy was not the objective.

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Haha, I sell green energy, it's awesome! And it is for real, if it's accredited that means the company has to be audited on their emission reductions and reinvest into renewable's. Considering 60% of Australia's emissions are generated from residential energy use it really is the best thing a consumer can do at a grass-roots level to reign in the countries carbon output.

If anyone in Vic or SA wants to be hooked up just send me a PM and I'll give you a call, I'll even chuck in six low-energy light bulbs, a water-saving shower-head and a green Sherrin football for free! ;)

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There is a really simple solution to our domestic power needs - loans for solar systems. If we were to get government loans to get a solar system that is 100% self sufficient then we could pay the government back just like we currently pay for our power

You could simply pay back the loan by feeding power back into the grid before being credited as some are who are on full solar systems

I was asked about green energy yesterday

What gets me is the rebate system we work on now is unrealistic to many lower income earners, to fork out the cash up front for solar panels , solar hot water & rainwater tanks & be rebated a substantial amount after a period of time is backwards

Now if they put you on a list & that Rebate was used as a "advance" on a loan that can only be spent on the intended goods im sure the rollout of green energy would be much faster & create more funds & jobs in the solar & other sustainable industry's ?

Kill 3 birds with one loan stimulate the green energy industry, create jobs & cut Co2 emissions :rolleyes:

Edited by mac

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^^^ I'm not sure about differences in states, but in NSW you can apply to put the upfront costs of solar panels onto an interest free credit card with ANZ. You get reimbursed from the rebates within the six months so you're essentially not really going out of pocket. You have to be able to get the credit card though. And I think that offer has passed already.

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Biomass energy generation

when you do the energy budget of inputs and outputs

this is the one with the real potential

and has many positive side industries too

Could you trust a government in Aus to implement it

without destroying the environment in the process??

I doubt it

Maybe in some imaginary future

For now wind farms and solar for end users

is the best

hard to corrupt

option

Poor whatsiface ummm... Turnbull

He's saying like hey guys its 2009

Its already looking like a total c*nt of a summer

every state is going to burn to the ground

all of the cities are going to run out of water

our number one export is going to be topsoil .. to the ski fields of NZ

AND YOU WANT TO VOTE AGAINST FIXING THE PROBLEM IN THE RUN

UP TO THE NEXT FED ELECTION

AAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGH

OMG WHAT DID I DO TO DESERVE THIS??

ok calm down mr turnbull just try to imagine that you live in a country

that has a multi party democracy

and a well informed electorate that

will see the way to a better future

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