ROOT BEER, prelim to finish

[Monk]

I was having a little case of drained chi/spring funk yesterday. I decided a spring tonic was the solution. In order to test the flavor/effect of my planned root beer mead, I prepped as follows:

1 tbsp wild cherry bark

1 tbsp licorice root

1 tbsp yellow dock

2 tbsp wintergreen leaves

1 tbsp sassafras(EtOh soaked)

1 tbsp sarsparilla root

1 tbsp indian sarsparilla root.

All this was simmered in 1 qt water for 15 min. Reduced to 1 pt. The tast was quite good and herbally, if a little astringent from the tannins. It was somewhat psychoactive and tonifying as well.

I felt a mild, but definite buzz/headchange along with general energy and some tingly stuff in my scalp. I'm going to get my other 5 gal. fermenter going this weekend or the next with an expanded recipe of this for a hard root beer version. The only difference will be that the sassafras will be in the form of an everclear extract to pull out the goodies for possible bioamination. Super fresh avocado honey is waiting in the cupboard to be used as the sugar source. Now what kind of yeast to use....

Edited June 17, 2007 by FeloniousMonk

[nabraxas]

damn man, got your shit together. sounds cool. enjoy.

[Μορφέας]

awesum!! il buy a sample beer from u when its done

[Bongchitis]

I think alot of guys who brew Mead use Champagne yeast. I think it was more of a flavour thing more than anything else....If you have enough fermentables, you will have enough alcohol regardless of yeast.

Some of the home brew forums, perhaps even the Nook, may indicate particular strains of yeast to use with spiced Mead, honestly though with all the extracts et al it is going to be plenty flavoursome to overcome all but the worst yeast funk....and after 2, WHO CARES!

[foolsbreath]

Champagne yeast is basically a superstrong fermenter and is often used for restarting stuck ferments when there is high alcohol already present (inhibiting factor) basically what happens when making a champagne anyway.

It will work better than most if there is inhibiting components in the brew, and mead is usually pretty low in nutrients so the stronger fermenter is probably a good thing, but

If you use champagne yeast you will have to keep the temperature considerably lower than if using a beer yeast ie 12-15 C compared to 25-27 for a beer yeast otherwise it will just roar through and you will probably loose a lot of the nicer flavors and get less extraction time.

I would use a champagne yeast if I could keep temps down, or a plain old beer yeast if I couldn't (and your aiming for about 5% v/v alcohol in your final product)

[Monk]

Um, Narcissism, I think the deal with the legality of homebrewing is that you can't sell it I don't think, though, that bartering is included in this law. Now, I wonder what the laws are about shipping homebrew across the planet? If you figure it out and are serious, let me know, maybe we can trade something. My location is California, btw. Bongchitis, yeah, many people do use champagne yeast. Many others use various kinds of wine yeasts as well. However, meads brewed at those high gravities take 6 months to several years to age. I'm not that patient, cuz I'm new to it, so I'm shooting for ale potency for quick aging/drinkability. I cut the honey rates in half for a potential ABV of around 6 %. Supposedly, White Labs European ale yeast is suppose to brew really clean with minimal flavor additions of its own, hence this selection. When brewing these low gravity musts, I'm using ale yeasts so it doesn't end up too dry. Thanks for the interest, guys. Anyone out there with some brewing experience is always welcome to comment/advise as well. Adios.

[Μορφέας]

California? how i supposed to kno that! lol ur on an australia forum.. fair enuffy! il come visit you

[nabraxas]

California? how i supposed to kno that!

hint:

Group: Members

Posts: 73

Joined: 8-February 07

Member No.: 3,181

Climate or location: SoCal

[Μορφέας]

Nabraxus who the fuck is going to know what SOCAL is smart ass, if i was american no doubt everyone would kno strait away, but we'r not and hence it just looks like jargen

[Monk]

Allright everybody, simmer down. Yes, I'm on an Australian forum on the "world wide" web Actually, I joined this site, because unlike some others, people around here just seem more interested in learning, sharing information, and doing the work. That's more my speed than the argument/shit talking I've seen elsewhere. A little teasing and playful mockery builds character, but often times it degrades to name calling pretty quick. Anywho, where were we....

[XipeTotec]

Nabraxus who the fuck is going to know what SOCAL is smart ass, if i was american no doubt everyone would kno strait away, but we'r not and hence it just looks like jargen

i knew where it was

[nabraxas]

Nabraxus who the fuck is going to know what SOCAL is smart ass, if i was american no doubt everyone would kno strait away, but we'r not and hence it just looks like jargen

i think that if we did a poll "Who recognises the location SoCal?" we'd find that the majority ov people here would recognise it as Southern California.

& just to be a smartass it's Nabraxas, jargon & straight

[paradox]

FM i think your brews sound very interesting.

i've only done a little bit of brewing in the past and that was just with a kit but i wanna get into it a bit again soon!

so i very much enjoy hearing of your adventures

I'll have to talk to him about this again soon but my uncle told me he once made buttercup nectar wine which sounds pretty cool

anyways, keep us posted on your progress

[Vertmorpheus]

Bugger all this and go to homedistiller.org :D But in the meantime, a lot of winemakers n brewers I talk to reckon that if something takes years to be drinkable, you fucked it up to start with. In other parts of the world with lots of clover etc straight up honey meads are said to be pretty tasty after a loooong wait but a lot of aussie honey is said to taste flat and strong at the same time, bold rather than interesting.Dunno, I like the honey I get. With that amount of added herbage (nice choice of herbage BTW) some reasonable flavour can be expected a lot quicker than "years". I always aim to make dry rather than sweet or sparkling mead (I like my fingers and eyes, can you see the hand gesture I'm making ) and almost always add spices and fruit juices (not getting into the long and wonderful list of different obscure welsh names for fruit meads n all that) and , secret ingredient, tomato paste (unsalted) or vegemite. I also (waits for abuse) use bakers yeast (gasp!) as I find it comes out with a lot more "character" and a less "goony" taste (do they say goon in the US?) , which I find the various "champagne" yeasts tends to produce. Bakers yeast gets a bad rap as it is mainly used by complete bogans making prison style bucket blends, whereas if you can be stuffed buying overpriced yeasts from shops that seem to be shut more often than open, you will make sure to do everything else properly and with decent ingredients too.

But then I like a drink with a lot of character and body, rather than some thin, glassy paris hilton - like brew.

Don't think you can be tricky and use turboyeast either lol. But I keep everything good and clean (though sulphite free) and use smallish amounts of yeast, just barely enough to sparsley cover the surface of the must. Never get sticking or "hibernation", fruit juice for nutrient helps as does being sure to add an acid component and tannins as well.

Don't count on wild yeasts etc... yep, you will probably eventually get SOMETHING growing in a huge drum of sugar water and other yummies. But it might make you a bit crook, or just taste like poo.

Cinnamon,sage and overripe pear juice honey mead...droooolllll...that's the problem, the better you make it the less time it lasts though you seem to have a lot of mates with nowhere to go every few months.

happy brewing,

GD

[Conan Troutman]

Cinnamon,sage and overripe pear juice honey mead...droooolllll...that's the problem, the better you make it the less time it lasts though you seem to have a lot of mates with nowhere to go every few months.

GD that sounds yummo never done a meade but has alway interested me...

can you elaborate further on a recipe?

[Monk]

Great info, greendreams. Have you checked out gotmead.com? They have some info about meads like yours, even using brewers yeast for one that is considered a "quick mead." Right on about your statement regarding how long it should take to be ready to drink. What ABV are you usually shooting for?

[Vertmorpheus]

Ah I'd have to dig out my recipe book (homebrewing and handwritten notes don't mix, smudge city lol) to be certain but basically I make up 2/3 of the recquire sugars with honey (unboiled, kills the soul of it to my taste buds), added to half half unsweetened preservative free juice (vit c is ok of course) and water , rainwater that is.I make it in 10 litre lots and that usually takes methinks around 2 or 3 tsp of citric acid or a decent whack of lemon juice, plus about 15 teaspoons of tea (dilmaaahhh) worth of tannins etc in as little water as possible, let em sit from boiling til its well cooled. The amount of tannins added depends on whatever elsei s in it, grape juice for example takes up a lot of the slack flavour wise due to having a bit of tannin and acid in there anyway.This adds a lot of body to it. Then secret ingredients , either a few teaspoons of plain tomato paste, or about half that of vegemite. I aim to run the yeast dry, reliably so, so I aim for around 10 or 11 percent, of course honey varies and is a bitch to use a hydrometer with anyway, lots of little solids make it read higher than it is.

Seen gotmead, the cats meow, etc, some very handy stuff but some get a little over the top :D Make the occasional honey and sage ale kinda thing, using brewers yeast, not really a reliable thing as iwth stronger sage it comes out a lil on the dettol side , sometimes i drink it sweet sometimes dry on ice. Great for cold n flu though. And sobriety.makes me feel like a dragonlance character

I'll find my actual recipe n put that up. Not that I follow it every time, by now I basically get the must to just a LITTLE "oversweet" and provided it has enough in it for yeasties to munch on it tends to work out no matter the other details, but acid and tannins are a must (haha) if anything is going to taste any good at all.

[Monk]

Finally did it!

Ingredients:

50 g. Honduran Sarsparilla (Smilax sp.)

50 g. Indian Sarsparilla (Hemidesmus sp.)

50 g. Chinese Licorice root cortex

120 g. Wintergreen leaves

50 g. Yellow dock root

30 Juniper berries

150 g. Sassafras bark/root bark (extract)

50 g. Wild Cherry bark

4 fl.oz. Organic Vanilla Extract

Method:

All ingredients except sassafras and vanilla placed into hop bag and placed in 2 liters hot h2o. Simmered for 1.5 hrs. Strong sarsparilla smell thoughout house. Heat turned off. Sassafras extract strained. Liquid portion saved, root chunks added to hop bag and steeped in covered brew for 5 min. Dark brown, aromatic(!) brew added to 5 gal. fermenter. 2 gal. cool h2o added to fermenter. 9+ pounds fresh Avocado honey, dark as molasses, added and stirred vigorously to mix/aerate. Sassafras alcohol extract added. Stirred. White Labs Abbey Ale Yeast added (cuz I love perfumy belgian ales .) Topped off to 5 gal. Covered and airlocked.

[Monk]

At 12 hrs. I had one bubble per second in airlock(!) At 24 hrs. I had 2 per second. I had this gut feeling I should have purchased Foam Control at the brew shop or that I'd have to rig a blow off tube. I was right. Root beer foam geyser. Cleaned up the (minimal) loss and rigged a blow off tube. Getting about 4-5 bubbles per second(!!) from the tube. Very vigorous fermentation that smells heavenly I can't wait. Considering the way this yeast is behaving with all that food, I won't have to wait too long

The ABV should be around 8-9 %. Regardless, this shit should be a tasty, strong beverage leading to many a good time. Now for a name... "XXX Root Metheglyn" maybe. I suppose I just made an inuendo in Australia

[Vertmorpheus]

Sounds good, I've had to clean my share of beverages off the ceiling (also the walls, the floor, the cat, innocent bystanders), more of a problem opening than brewing for me .

A cranking start to ferm is always comforting but remember like most of thse planty things the quicker you do it, you will get a "dirtier" rxn, more aldehydes etc. Which isn't always bad, but can lead to some very intricate hangover effects (esp with all that herbage providing woody matter...don't worry about blindness tho, beer is chockers with methanol from the grain cases)

Can lose out on some of the more "delicate" flavours sometimes, but then after three glasses most things taste pretty damn good esp at 12 cents for an enormous glass :D

happy brewing, yeast rocks :D helpful little bastards they are.

GD

[Monk]

Yeah, greendreams, I think you're right about byproducts. Strangely, the ferm smells a little like banana(?!) This is probably due to a combination of weird oils/esters in the herbs combined with a trappist-type yeast that produces unusual smells anyway. I love trappist ales, though, and I'm sure it will turn out well and strong. If the gods smile on me, it should be more psychoactive than regular beer, as well Next time I'm definately getting Foam Control. Those steroidal saponins from Smilax sp. really foam to all hell!!

[Monk]

greendreams, how long does regular ale usually take to be done?

[Vertmorpheus]

Well that's one of those questions innit :D when it's done, really. An ale is trad speaking an unhopped brew, which means they were meant to be knocked off more or less ASAP rather than lagered etc... once it meets its alc target and settles down , clears a little it should be ok. My honey n sage ale takes less than a week start to finish, aiming at about 3-4 percent ABV.Leaving brews sit on plant matter can end up giving you some swampy undertones. The banana scent you mention can be pretty nice, might have something to do with paraldehyde haha... but seriously, it's one of the main goals in making witbeers etc, getting that aspect of flavour in.My brain is certainnly in favour of the more... whats the word... mindblowing brews with associated weirdo 'hydes and esters.Eth and water leaves me fairly uninspired these days.The tomato paste I use tends to be an easy way to get some fruity aspects in there, and good nutes too.

When its fizzing not bubbling, clear not chaotic, try it out. Not sure if you intend to just put the bucket on a table with glasses or bottle it... bottling you will need at least another couple weeks for proper priming etc. All comes down to taste really! Keep the odd note on what you do and when so you know what to do next time, or not do next time.

have a slight thought that the saponins you mention, if they're present at high enough levels to really make that much of a dif, foamwise, MIGHT make your yeast a bit more prone to bursting early. Not sure though.Might do the opposite?Should help get some of the goodies out of the plant matter though?

Still looking for my recipes (I moved 6 months ago, still can't find half my life haha) but in the meantime check out the cats meow number 3 or whatever we're up to, homedistiller.org has a good lil page on essential oils etc. Local used book places tend to have a few brew books in stock.Or go talk talk to ear off the homebrew store owner!Those blokes are usually up for a chat.

bottoms up!

GD

[coin]

wit beer/hefeweizen yeasts will give off some banana (ester - primarily isoamyl acetate and some others) and clove (phenolic) aromas and is an acceptable part of the style.

but most ale yeasts (especially funky belgians) will give off an excess of these compounds when fermented too hot, or if the fermentation starts too hot...and there are many styles where the banana notes should not be apparent. it's better to start at the lower end of the acceptable ferment temp range, then ramp it up towards the end..the fermentation activity will bring the temp up a fair bit anyway. if you start the ferment towards the upper limit of the acceptable temp range it will be all done in two days and you'll get all sorts of overpowering esters and fusel alcohols (making headache/hangover mead).

ale fermentation shouldn't take more than five days usually at the correct temps....figure out the apparent attenuation then compare that to the yeast stats. if you pitched your yeast at the correct rate, it shouldn't have petered out .. but it can be hard for yeast to ferment honey and often yeast nutrients are used to help it along. you can get liquid mead yeasts

edit--oops, some of this has already been mentioned above..

Edited April 28, 2007 by coin

[Vertmorpheus]

never hurts to have a more stereophonic expression of the ideas involved , one persons clear explanation is another's gobbledegook , this way we spread the odds some eh?