Jump to content
The Corroboree
Hyphal

Clarifying Bulk Substrates, Pasteurising and Spawning

Recommended Posts

I was thinking in the oven at 90C for 3 hours then turn off oven and let cool. Wouldn't this do the same job?

No because 90°C isn't 80°C.... If however you can keep your oven at a steady temp of between 72°C and 80°C then yes, you could use your oven no worries at all.

I just find it requires too much fine tuning and monitoring to get these temps steady - easier to just heat up some water to the desired temp, and pour it into an insulated chamber to keep it at that temp (esky).

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hyphas tek sounds like the way to go, but if you were forced to use an oven, you could hold it open slightly to keep temps slightly lower :wink:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Narcissism!

Good luck greencoat - let us know how it goes... :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Why must the bulk substrate fully colonize before adding a casing layer? Wouldn't there be enough water in the bulk substrate to act as a casing layer already?

Your substrate must colonise fully to avoid contamination - if you have areas that are uncolonised, they are wide open to other spores/bacteria to thrive on, and for obvious reasons this isnt good.

Now I see what your saying about a casing layer - you can fruit without one, but you then need to make sure your growing parameters are optimal - eg. you need 100% humidity etc. A casing layer provides optimal growing conditions, helps protect the substrate from contams, and acts like a big sponge in which the fruits can draw more moisture from (mushrooms are 90% water).

Think of it as like a big, wet blanket for your substrate.

After you have mixed the spawn into the Bulk substrate could you add the casing layer here and then wait for the myc to pop through.

After your substrate is colonised, add your casing layer and then continue to incubate for another 2 or 3 days in the dark - when you see one or two spots of mycelium popping through, its ready to be exposed to fruiting conditions.

I assume the reason to let the BS fully colonize is that it will aid more even pinning later...? Is this correct

Its very bad to have areas that are left uncolonised, and yeah in a way I suppose you could say it will aid a more even pinset - but thats not the reason to let it fully colonise.

I have a thin layer of coco coir already on top......could i just fruit from this once the myc pokes through?

Im not sure why you have already added a thin layer of coir to the top - you shouldnt have done that until the susbtrate had colonised. But yes, in a way, that sounds like a casing.

Thanks for that link on the shroomery - it is a good example of why a casing layer is important. Mycofile wouldn't have had the same result without one. Heck, you can even fruit a substrate in the open air if you have a nice thick casing layer and you keep it moist.

Good luck!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pics GCF PICS!! :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ah.....1st flush looking good. Pics to come.

Much larger 1st flush than cased grain.....horse crap is worth it's weight in gold.

Although as these are Orissa strain.....the fun comes after the 1st flush. Very large 2nd flush expected.

Thanks hyph

Just glad it helped someone!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did this ever get turned into a PDF file? If you want to clean it up and add more info I would love to convert it. Also I was thinking maybe one of us should host a geocities site as an archive.

Thanks for this amazing post. I learnt alot.

Gen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is a bulk substrate question that just popped into my head and I thought here would be the place to ask.

Could you add water crystals to a bulk substrate before spawning? Since hydration seems so important to the effectiveness of the bulk, I thought that this might be a good way to supply more water.

Any thoughts from the more experienced guys or anyone else?

Peace

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This is a bulk substrate question that just popped into my head and I thought here would be the place to ask.

Could you add water crystals to a bulk substrate before spawning? Since hydration seems so important to the effectiveness of the bulk, I thought that this might be a good way to supply more water.

Any thoughts from the more experienced guys or anyone else?

Peace

I was wondering about this too - never tried it though. Maybe a little bit would help as long you don't add too much and make it mushy or create an anaerobic environment. Also it would shrink more than any other moisture absorbing addition compared to vermiculite for example. It’s my gut feeling that it could work but it might just be easier to use something like vermiculite or similar. Less messy etc.

I encourage you to give it a go! and report back with results :)

I think if I was doing it I would add a tiny bit of something nutritious to encourage mycelium growth in the gel and maybe a bit of H2O2 as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You would have to make sure the crystals are very evenly distributed through the substrate...NOT EASY...but certainly doable...crystals have tendency to clump when wet if not distributed evenly...but hey give it a go on a trial batch. If using wild bird seed when washing and straining the seed prior to pasteurising is probably the time to put the crystals in..so you will be able to see how they act when they become wet within the seed. They expend quite a lot to so that will be something to think about.

Be cool if it works and assists with watering...

H.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, hopefully i can get a quick response for this, is the coir really necessary?

Don't ask why lol but can you just use horse poo with straw?

Peace

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd guess so, but the coir would probably help.

Then again, I'm no expert. At all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

coir to help with water retention..that shit rocks for everything.

H.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Horse shit retains lots of moisture on its own, and so does straw, apparently horse shit can be used on its own.

But I want to know how much difference it makes.

Peace

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It just helps add bulk easily - the more substrate you have, the more fruits you get. But of course, if you have access to bulk horse poo (which can be used on its own no worries) then go for it. It can just be a pain to collect lots and break it up to the righ consistency, so adding some coir give more substrate easily and hassle free.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We have a Clydsedale, and consequently I have a few barrow-loads of poo each week. To date I'd been using a chipper to turn it into a delicious fluff for the vegie garden, but the call of the Portebello is beckoning, as the Aussie winter comes and with it the hankering for mushroom soup.

So, how might I pasteurise a few barrowloads at once? I actually have about three trailer-loads piled up at the moment, so I could really go to town. The trouble is, with the kitchen off-limits (how unreasonable is that?!) I'd have to do it all outside.

Anyone every tried to rig up a 44-gal drum steamer? Would solarising in black plastic bags cut the mustard? If I can find some of my old ibuttons I'll have a bash at testing the solarisation approach, but any experience from peeps here would be muchly appreciated.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A friend of mine has had some decent results using the cow manure $5 sold in Bunnings...pasturised with sugar cane mulch $8...also available from Bunnings...and you have your self a very large amount of substrate that can be used for months and months....just thought I'd add this as it's not always easy for people to hunt down straw and poo.

They have told me though that just straight straw packed down hard with spawn and left to colonise for 3 days then fruit without casing can give excellent results...casing is not necessary really....having said that they are going to try and do a straight straw substrate and then case lightly with poo...as in nature the fruits will pop up through the poo...but it's not necessary to case at all.

H.

Edited by Hunab Ku

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
We have a Clydsedale, and consequently I have a few barrow-loads of poo each week. To date I'd been using a chipper to turn it into a delicious fluff for the vegie garden, but the call of the Portebello is beckoning, as the Aussie winter comes and with it the hankering for mushroom soup.

So, how might I pasteurise a few barrowloads at once? I actually have about three trailer-loads piled up at the moment, so I could really go to town. The trouble is, with the kitchen off-limits (how unreasonable is that?!) I'd have to do it all outside.

Anyone every tried to rig up a 44-gal drum steamer? Would solarising in black plastic bags cut the mustard? If I can find some of my old ibuttons I'll have a bash at testing the solarisation approach, but any experience from peeps here would be muchly appreciated.

Hi wooddragon,

I'm having some success with fermenting bulk substrates. I just need to finish writing it up. but basically you chuck it in a large vessel add water and wait - the whole mess ferments ( and really stinks) but once its done after a week or so you empty it out, let it dry for a bit then spawn. I will hopefully get it written up properly next week. But using a 44 gal drum is the way to go - and an able bodied mate to help lift it out ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey Watertrade.

Love the idea - I used to do the same with hard-to-kill weeds like oxalis, onion grass and kykuyu when I lived in NSW. Works a treat.

I hadn't thought about clearing up poop this way though... Does it do a reasonable job of supppressing other fungi? We get heaps of different species growing from any poo we pick up - probably a biodiversity legacy from the days where the land was a cow/horse pasture on a farm.

And what about nutrient leaching? I suppose that it might not worry shrooms too much, and it'd be a great supernatant for the vegies...

Anyway, looking forward to your write-up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey crackers. As you know I fucking love this how to. Just some tips:

Instead of pasteurising in an esky of hot water try using the oven. When I used and esky a heap of water soaked into the substrate and fucked the shop up pretty bad. If you load it into into oven bags, knot them, then put that into ANOTHER oven bag and bake for like an hour @ 120 it will work a treat. Let it all cool down before you inoc.

Also I use double bags cause if one breaks it wont leak shit (Horse shit to be exact) into my oven :D

It's a lot easier kids...

Gen

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Excellent write up! Definitely will be using this method once my jars have ripened up :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for taking the time to post all of this, had pieced together some but not all, very useful.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From my experience of inoculating and growing fruits id say rye berries as a substrate , brick of coir and 4 litres verm pasteurized mixed with 4 quarts spawn and grown in a mono :wink:. Beautiful colony hyphal can't wait to see the rest! :drool2:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

wow, this was extremely helpful. alot of the other teks i have read are a bit confusing. thank you for clearing things up for me!

Edited by papa_smurf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×