Two questions yet again

[Coschi]

hmm.. i see what you're saying hypha and it makes sense, but i haven't enough info on this topic to comment really that wasn't particularly worth mentioning was it..

[Ace]

I think its one of those things that has the ability to colonise many more jars, or to fruit directly - can go either way, depending on the necessity of the cultivator

[ENtiTY]

I don't think it gets much more nutritious than whole grain does it?. Plenty of energy and trace minerals for the mushrooms.

[Hyphal]

hmm.. i see what you're saying hypha and it makes sense, but i haven't enough info on this topic to comment really that wasn't particularly worth mentioning was it..

I really mean no offence - and that wasnt directed at you in any way...

I meant it to Harries suggestion of changing grains - thats not targeting the root of the problem IMO.

In my studies on the subject colonised grain is primarily used for spawning - although yes you can fruit directly from grain and it does work very well - you can also quadruple your amount of mycelium by spawning.

If you are capable of colonising grain jars - then you've done the hardest bit - spawning to a poo based substrate is much easier.

[ENtiTY]

I meant it to Harries suggestion of changing grains - thats not targeting the root of the problem IMO.

Cakes don't contain a great deal of feed material for the myc to fruit from. By the time the myc has finished colonisation of the cake all the feed material is usually consumed. Grain on the other hand can be fully colonised and yet not totaly consumed leaving food for the myc to produce fruits from.

So how does going from a BRF/verm cake to whole grain not address the lack of nutrition issue? Its not the best possible way to produce shrooms but it is adequate for the situation don't you think?

[Coschi]

I really mean no offence - and that wasnt directed at you in any way...

Ya bastard!! kidding mate

Ok, let me get on the boat here:

Im still curious as to why everyone fruits directly from their grain - isnt the main idea behind colonising a jar of grain so that you can spawn it to a more nutritious bulk substrate?

So by this you are saying why people fruit their colonized substrate (aka cakes) rather than casing and letting the mycelium fruit from a more nutritious substrate?

I need to get up on my terminology see, is what i interpreted right?

if so..

wouldn't it mean that any substrate which is colonized from spores (ie cakes) would be more or less the same - essentially just personal preference? rather it's the casing that has a greater influence on the quality of fruiting; the cakes are just a point to start with..

So because my foaf got brf/verm to colonize he could stick with this for the moment, and vary the casing to see how the fruiting stage can be enhanced? later perhaps different starting substrate can be used to see how the growth is influenced...

I meant it to Harries suggestion of changing grains - thats not targeting the root of the problem IMO.

In my studies on the subject colonised grain is primarily used for spawning - although yes you can fruit directly from grain and it does work very well - you can also quadruple your amount of mycelium by spawning.

If you are capable of colonising grain jars - then you've done the hardest bit - spawning to a poo based substrate is much easier.

Here you're suggesting a grain substrate like brf to initially colonize and then case with poo based substrate?

Hold on.. am i way off?

[Ace]

You can take a few different roads to get you started:

1. PF Cakes

2. Grain Jars

3. Agar

4. Liquid Culture

From here you can go a few different ways:

1. Cakes can be birthed or cased

2. Grain jars can be used to spawn other jars (either 1. or 2. above)

3. Agar can be used to grow out clean mycelium (great to clean up wild prints), then transferred to 1. or 2.

4. LC can be used to start almost any of the above - it is just an extra step that can make things easier or harder.

Casings can be numerous things - vermiculite, BRF, compost, moo poo, mulch, etc, etc. Each has different pros and cons.

Make sense?

[ENtiTY]

Sphinx cakes are ok because they are easy to get right. Grain on the other hand is a lil more tricky until you get a feel for it, even then the odd one can be a dud. Like I said in my last post grain provides more food for the myc than a cake can by the time its ready to fruit. Some substrates colonise quicker than others which is important if you want to fruit a variety as quick as you can, who really wants to wait longer than they have to.

BRF refers to Brown Rice Flower which isn't a grain, its a flower. Grains are whole un ground seeds that the myc grows on and feeds on much like the BRF verm covered balls used for cakes. The difference being that a whole grain provides much more tucker for the myc than a BRF verm ball ever will.

So casing a BRF cake in a nutrient rich case such as manure and straw will give much better results than say peat moss/verm caseing. If you use grain you can case with peat moss/verm no troubles as the grain can still provide nutition for fruiting unlike the cake.

Use pop corn you won't regret it!

Edited April 11, 2007 by Harry

[Ace]

BRF refers to Brown Rice Flower which isn't a grain, its a flower.

Dont want to go getting all technical, but BRF isnt a flower - it is actually a flour A processed grain, not the reproductive part of a plant

[ENtiTY]

LOL hehehe.

Wrong word haha.

Brown Rice Flour !

Thanx Ace

[Ace]

Haha - just didnt want a few newbs rocking up to a shop looking for the packages marked flour and have them search elsewhere for flower Tis all in the name of Shits n Giggles

A complete change of topic - has anyone seen the movie 'Beer Fest'? It has a few of the guys from Super Troopers. Sort of like an Oktoberfest ripoff - but done pretty well. But it certainly encourages some dangerous alcohol use - I felt like chugging a beer bong while hanging upside down afterwards! Not the worst movie - worth a watch

edit - forgot to mention - they had a pub in it called 'Schnitzengiggles' - reminded me of it when I made that comment

Edited April 11, 2007 by Ace

[Coschi]

Ok.. alright.. ok

So perhaps as harry suggests a popcorn substrate to be cased with poo + straw?

Alright!

Ace i've never seen any of those movies!

[Coschi]

Hey hey hey, here's another question:

If my foaf can find SQUARE glasses do colonize the substrate in, this would be best yeah? as then with casing the squares of colonized substrate can just be placed neatly next to eachother.. good good?

And re popcorn, i saw greencavefloats post, looks good, i'm guessing the same goes; ie when the popcorn is colonized it'll be like a 'cake' style block of fun stuff, then casing put on top and bottom?

[Ace]

If you cant find them, just crumble your cakes up into marble sized pieces for an effective method

[Hyphal]

You can take a few different roads to get you started:

1. PF Cakes

2. Grain Jars

3. Agar

4. Liquid Culture

From here you can go a few different ways:

1. Cakes can be birthed or cased

2. Grain jars can be used to spawn other jars (either 1. or 2. above)

3. Agar can be used to grow out clean mycelium (great to clean up wild prints), then transferred to 1. or 2.

4. LC can be used to start almost any of the above - it is just an extra step that can make things easier or harder.

Casings can be numerous things - vermiculite, BRF, compost, moo poo, mulch, etc, etc. Each has different pros and cons.

Make sense?

The only thing missing from that list is - Spawning....

Once you have a fully colonised pf jar or grain jar, you can fruit it the ways you said above - either birth, or case it.

And yes, if you have a fully colonised grain jar you can then transfer that to other grain jars to make more colonised jars.

But - what I meant by quadrupling your mycelium was - spawning to a manure based substrate.

There still is a bit of confusion Sphinx - you DONT case with manure - thats really bad news, its like putting a massive hotel for contaminations on top of your grain.

But, what you can do with a colonised jar (pf OR grain) is crumble it into tiny little chunks - and mix these chunks through some pasteurised poo mix, then allow this mix to AGAIN fully colonise. The result is a container of colonised poo mix - THEN case this with a non-nutritious casing layer (no nutrient so that there is no hotel contams to set in) and then fruit....

[ayjay101]

.

Edited October 22, 2007 by ayjay101

[ENtiTY]

The thing about grain is that it can be broken up in the jar easily. What you do once it is colonised is to bash the jar against something soft such as a couch arm and break the colonised grain mass up into smaller chunks that are then poured out and spread across the bottom case layer then top case layer is added.

[Coschi]

Hmm... so:

Colonize corn, crumble and mix with pasturised poo (50/50 ?), once colonized case with .. verm / peat?

Has anyone seen some glass jars?

[Hyphal]

The thing about grain is that it can be broken up in the jar easily. What you do once it is colonised is to bash the jar against something soft such as a couch arm and break the colonised grain mass up into smaller chunks that are then poured out and spread across the bottom case layer then top case layer is added.

You actually have to either slide your colonised grain out of the jar first, then crumble it by hand - or spoon it out (if the jar has a shoulder and the mycelial mass doesnt slide out). You wont be able to break your grain up inside the jar.

Hmm... so:

Colonize corn, crumble and mix with pasturised poo (50/50 ?), once colonized case with .. verm / peat?

Has anyone seen some glass jars?

Thats exactly right sphinx - but you can use pf style jars or whatever you want - any healthy culture of mycelium. Corn, Wild bird seed or rye crumbles a lot easier than pf jars, but you need a pressure cooker to do the grain jars.

[ENtiTY]

You actually have to either slide your colonised grain out of the jar first, then crumble it by hand - or spoon it out (if the jar has a shoulder and the mycelial mass doesnt slide out). You wont be able to break your grain up inside the jar.

Why do you say you won't be able to break the grain up inside the jar? If its that solid that you can't break it up you have let it go to far. Corn breaks up very easily, I've done it.

However either way will work.

Thanks for clarifying with the manure Hypha, I had that one confused as well. So do you use straight manure or mix it with straw? If so what ratios?

[EDIT]: Don't worry found me answer should of read the last few posts better.

Edited April 11, 2007 by Harry

[Hyphal]

You can happily use straight horse poo, but it works much better if you mix it 50/50 with chopped straw.

Steer clear of cow poo - after it goes through 4 stomachs it tends to be too dense and just doesnt have the right fluffy consistency.

[user1]

Corn, Wild bird seed or rye crumbles a lot easier than pf jars, but you need a pressure cooker to do the grain jars.

i think GCF sterilised his corn jars in a normal saucepan, so it's still possible to get away with not forking out for a pressure cooker

[ENtiTY]

Yeah GCF used one of those large cooking pots. Needs to be steamed twice as long but it worked for him. A pressure cooker is much better but if you can't get one then this is an option. Try going to trash and treasure markets and such, you may get lucky and pick a PC up cheap. Thats how I got mine. Cost me 20 bucks plus a new seal, damn bargin You may get an old one but they do the same job.

[Coschi]

I paid a bunch for a spanking new PC

I should have checked trash and treasure...

Quote Sphinx:

Has anyone seen some glass jars?

Stupid question, i meant has anyone seen some square glasses? Actually if crumbling is the go this really doesn't matter does it...

Hypha,

So you say colonize (or colonise) the corn first, then crumble and mix with pasturised horse poo (not sterilised?) and re-jar and let re-colonise, then case with non-nutritious casing..

Why not just go straight to corn / poo mix?

[ENtiTY]

As I understand it the manure is their to provide food for the myc while the non-nutirtious case is there to shield the spawn from contam and also as a moisture resivour. Manure by itself would contam fairly quick I would imagine.

Pitty cow manure is not recommended, its so much easier to get.