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[Jonny Deformed]

fair enough, ive had no problems yet, hes been fair and courteous to me, i treat people as i find them. as they say, he who is without sin........

Exactly.

If they frigg you once its their fault

If they frigg you twice its your own.

[Hagakure]

that said i have never bought plants off this guy and probably never will because he seems like a sad case.

i dont buy from certain stores cause i really dislike the companies and their practices. i prefer to give my money to stores worthy of my money (i buy most gifts etc for people from oxfam stores - stuff like that)

i wouldnt buy from this guy because he has attempted blackmail and has behaved very immaturely on many an occasion.

i would rather buy cacti from someone else in the scene to support them instead.

[XipeTotec]

fair enough, ive had no problems yet, hes been fair and courteous to me, i treat people as i find them. as they say, he who is without sin........

well, that would be me again.... always having to throw the 1st stone.

[Torsten]

You can't shop and Bunnings but at the same time complain that the parent company wesfarmers is raping our forests.

You can't invest with Macquarie Bank and at the same time complain that they are going to plunder Qantas.

You can't go to Maccas and at the same time claim to be environmentally conscious.

However, you will most likely be served very courteously by any of these companies. So if you apply the principle of 'treating people as you find them', then I guess environmental, social and other ethics no longer play any role.

As I said, the issue with this guy isn't his trading, his manners or his products. The problem is that he is unethical and that he has violated concepts we should all hold very dearly.

Jono, how would you feel if you were the individual threatened to have the authorities called on you? Would you also feel that everyone else shoudl just ignore the fact because after all most people have no problem with this guy? or would you feel that the community should share such an ethic and support itself and each other in such belief?

I personally had no problem with mexicali either. The only reason why I don't like the guy is because of how he treated others. Mind you, since then he has given me enough reason to dislike him personally as well, but that's a separate issue derived directly from the first one.

btw, the quotes I cited in my previous post were not directed at me. They were threats made by mexicali/gollumscacti/kosta to other members. That could have just as well been you Jono. If anyone wants to know what he said to me and the threats he made about these forums you will have to go looking yourself.

[incognito]

i apologise heartfully, that was a bitter post.

Edited February 21, 2007 by jono

[Hagakure]

that we should all believe one side of a story and not deal with a person who sells quality plants?

i dont think there is much room for debate that he was blackmailing. its also pretty clear he has treated the ethnobot community with contempt despite trying to make a lot of money off of it.

fuck this dude and the horse he rode in on

[Torsten]

so u dont use any of these services t??

Not unless it can't be avoided. Certainly, when there are other options I would always go for that.

I firmly believe that it is important to spend your money ethically.

lol i love it when u talk of ethics t.

uve got as much blood on ur hands as mexicali.

drop the god complex, ur poo smells to.

Would you care to elaborate? [except for the poo bit, cos I don't want to know why you are sniffing that ].

I used to let a lot of people walk all over me because I was in a very vulnerable position, but things have changed in the last few months, so I don't mind if some of this crap comes out in the open so I can finally set the record straight. In fact I welcome it. I've let a whole bunch of liars and thieves get away with their shit for the last 10 years because they used my vulnerable position, but now I don't need to anymore. I'm ready to kick some butt

whats that meant to mean? that we should all believe one side of a story and not deal with a person who sells quality plants? that we shouldnt give someone another chance?

This wasn't about various sides in a fight. To be honest at least two of the people who had problems with mexicali had at least as much blame as he did for what was going on. However, none of them resorted to legal threats or to making demeaning generalisations. mexicali's character is displayed for all to see. The quotes I listed are not taken out of context or anyone putting words in his mouth [feel free to check the sources]. he said those things. he defended saying those things. and he never apologised for saying those things. To me someone doesn't deserve a second chance until they have apologised and made amends. he never did.

It is only a matter of time before he does that to another set of people. I sincerely hope you will be one of them. However, after what you have written here don't think that you will get any support like you did last time he nearly diddled you. Or have you already forgotten the support you drew on at that time?

that if we have been treated with respect and have had good business with someone then we should stop trading with them because u and others have said so so? shit i wouldnt be trading with many people at all.

yeah, ethical traders are few and far between, but I have no problem not trading with any of them. These things just aren't worth compromising my ethics for. And yes, I frequently stop trading with suppliers if I find their ethics irreconcilable. What you decide to do is your business, but if you defend someone like mexicali in a public place then don't be surprised if people question your stance.

[Jonny Deformed]

Man i wish i knew all this before snatching them up.

Quality plants though....

[Jonny Deformed]

They arrived today.

Was a pleasure to trade with.

Others were just unlucky i quess.

Edited February 27, 2007 by JD.

[naja naja]

It's not his trading that was in question, but rather his morals and feelings towards this community. Learn the full story in past threads if ya want.

[husk]

http://www.urbantribes.com.au/store/... this guy/s/or girl/s seems alright. spoken through emails very quick and precise, with emails that is haven't bought from them.

torsten, i agree with u 100% about ethics...couldn't even bare driving my car anymore so ditched it last year.

it's especially hard though to ignore people who do work in yr favour (sort of) but are totally careless and selfish.

eg. eco terrorism/ this guy

x peace

[dc]

Alright i may as well start my first controversial post while im still under the influence of certain mind altering drugs (anti depressants not fun drugs), i find all of your integrity talk hypocritical crap, im not standing up for what kosta did in fact i think he acted extremely poorly in the manner in which he conducted himself on the forums and to certain members for what ever reason i dont know or care, but to have someone say he has more integrity than i do because i choose to buy a plant from a person i find absolutely pathetic and damn well insulting. You've never purchased drugs before i bet ay, those drug dealers have all the integrity in the world, yeh right give me a break. Once again this isn't standing up for kosta this is me expressing my disappointment that you would put people like myself into a category of people when you dont know who or what i stand for. very disappointing and probably my last post here seems i have no "integrity" or "ethics" so what ever i had or would have in the future to contribute to the community must mean jack shit.

[Torsten]

you are missing the point. it's about choice. if you have a choice between an ethical drug dealer and an unethical one then why go for the unethical one?

personally the vast majority of dealers I used to buy my drugs off were ethical. They were good drugs too. Only been ripped off a couple of times in my life and both times it was because my options were too limited. Don't know what sort of dealers you hang out with, but I've had this discussion a few times with folks from the USA and it seems the concept of honest drug dealers is ludicrous to them. Over here dealers are usually your mates. At least that's what it was like in the rave scene, although I doubt it would be like that in other drug communities.

I think in such a money orientated world our dollars have greater impact than would expectations of standards etc.

It all comes down to the same old dilemma: we all hate McDonalds but it's just too convenient to not eat there. or we hate Walmart, but hey, why should we miss out on the latest piece of ozone depleting chinese plastic crap?

There are alternatives to dealing with kosta and still getting what you want. Not looking for these alternatives is endorsing someone who calls the cops on his customers. As I mentioned before, the irony of this situation is that when jono looked like he was a victim of kosta he expected help and support from this community [and got it], but now that it turned out he was not a victim after all, he is not willing to provide that same support for other potential victims or those who stayed victims. I really like jono, but I am just really disappointed in his stance on this.