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The end of the american empire

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http://news.yahoo.com/s/space/20070108/sc_...nallygoesmetric

NASA Finally Goes Metric

SPACE.com Staff

SPACE.comMon Jan 8, 4:30 PM ET

When NASA returns astronauts to the Moon, the mission will be measured kilometers, not miles.

The agency has decided to use metric units for all operations on the lunar surface, according to a statement released today.

The change will standardize parts and tools. It means Russian wrenches could be used to fix an air leak in a U.S.-built habitat. It will also make communications easier, such as when determining how far to send a rover for a science project.

NASA has ostensibly used the metric system since about 1990, the statement said, but English units are still employed on some missions, and a few projects use both. NASA uses both English and metric aboard the International Space Station.

The dual strategy led to the loss of the Mars Climate Orbiter robotic probe in 1999; a contractor provided thruster firing data in English units while NASA was calculating in metric.

The decision comes after a series of meetings between NASA and 13 other space agencies around the world, where metric measurements rule.

"When we made the announcement at the meeting, the reps for the other space agencies all gave a little cheer," said Jeff Volosin, strategy development lead for NASA's Exploration Systems Mission Directorate. "I think NASA has been seen as maybe a bit stubborn by other space agencies in the past, so this was important as a gesture of our willingness to be cooperative when it comes to the Moon."

Informally, the space agencies have also discussed using Internet protocols for lunar communications, the statement said.

"That way, if some smaller space agency or some private company wants to get involved in something we're doing on the Moon, they can say, 'Hey, we already know how to do internet communications,'" Volosin said. "It lowers the barrier to entry."

Top 10 Apollo Hoax Theories Images: Walking on the Moon in 3D NASA Unveils Strategy for Return to the Moon Lunar Explorers Face Moon Dust Dilemma All About the Moon Original Story: NASA Finally Goes Metric

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for something so trivial, this actually warrants a cheer.

inch, feet, yards, miles... ugh!

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fancy that. now americans will be raised to believe the two types of measurements are called "normal" and "nasa". :rolleyes:

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Woooooo, Finally!!!

Now I just wonder when the rest of my country will go metric.

I'm tired of us sounding like retarded country bumpkins whenever we try to measure anything.

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Just out of interest, Auxin, you might be able to help on this one, but do many of the Yanks currently use metric in day to day life? Or is everything still heavily imperial? Obviosly, its probably still reigning quite a bit and I'm sure there are a few die-hard fans who will continue to use it until they snuff it, but I've wondered this for a little while now... Cheers :)

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The gallon needs to be abolished as well. There are 2 different measurerments for a gallon, an American one and the rest of the world one. Fuel economy needs to be metric.

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The vast majority of americans dont know metric.

Those who went to college likely have at least a vague recollection of it but other than that the average joe couldnt even tell you if a deciliter is larger or smaller than a gallon :lol: The problem is we arent told that we will ever need it outside of chemistry classes, and we Sure arent told that metric is superior (unless you went to a free-thinker/hippie/social activist school like me)

Over the last 2 decades rulers with both inches and centimeters have become more common tho.

Thats just my corner of the country tho, for all I know someplace like california might be much different

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Thanks for the reply Auxin :) Imperial just seems like such an odd way to measure (though this probably seems arrogant and ignorant from an outsides perspective), and I was wondering when everyone will agree on one or the other. In my understanding, metric is pretty much gaining world wide acceptance, isnt it? I suppose the Brits and most Europeans would still be using imperial too though... Hmmm I really should have listened back in school... D'oh! :P

Does anyone know what the majority of the planet is using atm so I can settle my own curiosity (I must look like such a tool... *shameful appearance coming over face* :blush: )? Sorry for the thread hijack! Though I think this is still pretty much on topic...

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i grew up in california and remember learning the metric system. this was years ago, though, when the usa was considering switching over. we may have just learnt it that year due to the supposed impending transition that never happened. i don't remember any lessons in metric after year 3, which was in the 70's.

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Lol reminds me of that simpsons episode

"The metric system is the tool of the devil! My car gets forty rods to the hogshead and that's the way I likes it."

Edited by narayan

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Imperial just seems like such an odd way to measure (though this probably seems arrogant and ignorant from an outsides perspective)

...In my understanding, metric is pretty much gaining world wide acceptance, isnt it?

From an insiders perspective imperial IS an odd way to measure, any non-base 10 number system is. I've got ~$30,000 in metal machining tools (inherited, I'm not a millionaire so no loan requests :P ) and its all in fucking inches and fractions :wacko: it makes precision machining annoying as hell sometimes when you have to add up all the 7/64ths, 5/16th, 3/8ths, 3/32nds ugggg.

And Ace apparently there are only 3 countries on the planet not using metric- the USA, Myanmar, and Liberia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metric_system

Lol reminds me of that simpsons episode

"The metric system is the tool of the devil! My car gets forty rods to the hogshead and that's the way I likes it."

I remember that episode (btw thats 0.002 miles per gallon :lol: )

Unfortunatly that really is the attitude of a significant number of americans.

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Ahh the Simpsons....

One of my favorite episodes is the "Stonecutter's" episode which is a spoof on the Freemasons and Freemasonry.

In it they sing a song that says...

Who controls the British Crown?

Who keeps the metric system down?

We Do! We Do!

Who keeps Atlantis off the maps?

Who keeps the Martians under wraps?

We Do! We Do!

Who holds back the electric car?

Who makes Steve Guttenberg a star?

We Do! We Do!

Who robs cavefish of their sight

Who rigs every Oscar night?

We Do! We Do!

:)

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I can't even comprehend what it would take for a country so large and advanced to pull up one day and say "right now we use metric".

I guess the recent conversion to Euros is a little analogous but that is one simple conversion $ -->Euro. Changing a whole measurement system at this point in USA's life has the ability to affect the rest of the world for decades and every day that it is put off, it just gets harder!

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haha - cant beat a quality simpsons quote :P

That sucks about all the machining gear being imperial - its hard enough fiddling around trying to convert those fractions in day to day life, let alone when you need to use them with work! I'm very surprised about there being only 3 countries left with the system - I thought it would have been much more than that... perhaps the big conversion isnt too far away! Muhahahah!! *Monty Burns look coming over face as Ace laughs evily* lol

It seems that a lot of Americans have got themselves worked into these mindsets where their so determined to use something just because their folks did it that way - even when it seems ridiculous to the rest of us :huh: Just an observation. Like on the movie Borat - awesome flick, only saw it the other day - where they went to a rodeo and Borat was talking to an old bloke in a cowboy get-up. He was saying something along the lines of terrorism and the old geser started having a go at him and the sort of remarks that were made were so typically anti muslim and yet it seemed fine for this attitude to prevail... The old guy got pretty fired up about it and it just seemed so primitive, yet that sort of attitude seems fairly common (mostly in the south) and its just not like that in most places outside America.

As an American, do you notice and dis/agree with these sort of things? I'm mostly referring to the old fasioned values that are very out of date, but still seem to be so strongly help in high esteem. Please dont think that I'm having a dig here - I'm just interested in the subject of American social values - not saying that these ideals are incorrect either :)

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I think all cultures suffer from that to some degree. If people didnt irrationally cling to the prejudices of their parents, grandparents, pastors, and peers but instead gave issues logical consideration how would we still have racism, sexism, uh religionism :unsure: , haircolorism and all the rest?

That being said- yes many people I see here are racist to 'honor their parents' or rediculous shit like that.

My sister for example, she wasnt too heavily bigoted as a kid- pretty normal really. Then she went into the marines and admits that the marines taught her that its her patriotic duty to hate the countries enemies, and those enemies are the brown skins (not mulatto- just arab, iraqi, syrian, etc) and people who threaten 'american' (evangelical christian) values :blink: and she reinforces this racism and religious fanatacism because her favorite uncle was a racist and religious bigot too and he recently died so shes cursing all arabs and related groups to "honor" him too. (I just love driving her into a rage by saying how people should value peace and love and look past religious differences and pigmentally defined boundaries, and that maby JUST MABY people dont "hate us because we are free" but rather are annoyed at us constantly slaughtering their children for no good reason ... she already thinks I'm a subversive radical that should burn for being buddhist if nothing else :lol: )

You see freaky examples of that theme in any area of this country that you really pay attention to, but also in other countries. Seemingly nice folks that if you push the right button expose deep and powerful bigotry with no rational basis that they adopted out of peer pressure, respect for elders, mass media bombardment, desire to be able to point to a group and claim unquestionable superiority over them (this one fuels alot of undereducated trailor trash skinheads), etc.

I think this tendancy stands out especially well in america simply because we bombard the global media with US culture and not all americans try very hard to hide their bigotry because, well lets face it... no matter how repugnant I find it to be my country is basically untouchable. No one aside from venesuela has the balls to stand up to the US so americans as a whole can act however offensive they like.

I really do wish the UN would grow a spine or at least other countries would quit supporting us purely to make their most rich even richer.

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I really cant agree with you more on every one of those points Auxin - you know how to put it into words well :)

Unfortunately, like you said, its countries like ours (Oz, the UK, etc) that seem to fully support and even encourage to some extent, these absurd notions often encouraged by America's power. I know that every country has these negatives, it is probably just more obvious in the American culture due to their world-wide (at least in the UN) media bombardment as you stated.

I'm very glad you arent roped in by all the publicity and peer suport for these ideals - few people seem to be able to see past the wall created by society - and this is something that I really support. Its time to tear down the racist/arrogent/self centred wall that seems to divide borders and countries! We are all one people, but these notions stop us from understanding and empathising with each other. The day that the world unites and finally puts aside our differences (which really arent that obvious when you actually disect them) will be one of the finest days in history. That is, if we get to see that day before this sort of shite causes the destruction of our civilisation...

Who's with me in the march to break down The Wall? *Pink Floyd playing in background* :P

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.....

hoping that the number of bastard bolts i've had the pleasure of fucking up via attempting to use a metric spanner on an imperial bolt goes down.

about time too.

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yeah as an architect i've wasted hours translating details from US sources into 'the rest of the world' metric measurements... ive always found it kinda strange that the only country still clinging to imperial measurements fought a civil war to leave the empire...

the thing is.. to recalibrate industries like construction or anything with machine tools will cost them sooooooooooooooooooooooooo much that they keep putting it off...... go nasa lead the way

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The funny thing is that even once metric has been around for a while you still end up buying contruction materials in lengths of 30cm, with main sizes being 1.2m and 1.8m for example. Garden hoses will still be 18mm, fabric rolls will be 90 and 180cm. It took a while to get used to, being raised in a country that embraced metric many decades ago. And it still doesn't make any sense to me.

About the only things that are truly metric in australia are new inventions and liquids. Then again, there are drums that aren't quite 200L, beerglasses with odd numbers, and beer kegs that are a suspicious 45L.

What weirds me out even more is the fact that different trades only adopt certain units of the metric system. For example in carpentry the only legal units are mm and m. Well fuck, I grew up with everything in sensible metric units, but if someone says 825mm I can't actually picture that. The whole point of metric is that if you have more than 10 of one unit you start using the next higher unit or least in practical terms you use the next unit if you have more than 100 of the first unit. ie 100mm is 10cm, so 825mm is 82.5cm. Most people don't even know that there are units between mm and m. yes, unitS - plural. When was the last time you heard someone use dm as a unit?

I remember in primary school we learnt metric distances really easily.

mm - thickness of fingernail

cm - width of finger

dm - width of fist [nuckles]

m- distance between outstretched hands.

In australia when you ask a kid to measure approx 100mm he usually can't do it without a ruler. European kids just use their knuckles and get within 10mm or so [most kids know whether their fist is slightly smaller or larger than 10cm, so they can adjust].

I was always told that australia did not adopt cm as a unit, but I found this to be wrong. It was just not adopted by certain trades, eg the building trade. The rag trade for example lists cm as their standard unit. But how confusing is that to the consumer. you can buy 90cm curtain fabric, but only 900mm curtain rails :scratchhead:

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ive always found it kinda strange that the only country still clinging to imperial measurements fought a civil war to leave the empire...

if only the dichotomies ended there!

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What weirds me out even more is the fact that different trades only adopt certain units of the metric system. For example in carpentry the only legal units are mm and m. Well fuck, I grew up with everything in sensible metric units, but if someone says 825mm I can't actually picture that. The whole point of metric is that if you have more than 10 of one unit you start using the next higher unit or least in practical terms you use the next unit if you have more than 100 of the first unit. ie 100mm is 10cm, so 825mm is 82.5cm. Most people don't even know that there are units between mm and m. yes, unitS - plural. When was the last time you heard someone use dm as a unit?

I have always wondered about this - why tradespeople and others experienced in building and fixing things only ever use mm.

I assumed it was because many measurements are best expressed in mm - ie 165 mm rather than 16.5 cm - to avoid using the decimal, and once you start using one unit it's better to stick with it where reasonable. But now it all makes sense.

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Millimetres are used in the building, construction and various other industries due to the fact that they are much more accurate and easier to work with. Like my old metalwork teacher from high school said - centimetres are for mathmeticians and idiots. They arent that hard to understand, but it takes a bit to get the hang of. Once you start using them, you can learn to convert to centimetres, metres and whatever else, just by adding/dropping 0's.

e.g.

1) 3 metres = 300cm = 3000mm.

2) 5892mm = 589.2cm = 5.892m

As for decimetres, I cant say I've ever worked with them, let alone ever come in contact with anyone who regularly uses them. I assume these would be the units between cms and metres?

i.e.

5783mm = 578.3cm = 57.83dm = 5.783m

Ace

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Millimetres are used in the building, construction and various other industries due to the fact that they are much more accurate and easier to work with. Like my old metalwork teacher from high school said - centimetres are for mathmeticians and idiots.

Yes, but you see, using mm is actually contrary to another methematical law that says you can't increase accuracy. ie, if your ruler's lowest unit is mm then you can state a piece of string is 11.3mm long. That would adding non-existant accuracy.

So, as people simply can't guess mm lengths once you get above a few cm, saying that something is 900mm long, even though the most you can hope to guess for is within a few cm, means that you have added a unit of accuracy. ie, saying something is 90cm long makes anything from 89.5 to 90.5 acceptably accurate. However saying that something is 90.0 cm long is claiming an accuracy that you simply don't have [by sight]. 90.0cm is the same as saying 900mm.

If you are estimating the size of anything you look ridiculous when you make unsupportable claims, so for me whenever I hear someone guessing in mm is just ridiculous.

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I can understand why metres and millimetres are the preferred units.

Most named factors of 10 in relation to units are separated by 3 log units. So we have kilo, mega, giga etc. representing 10^3, 10^6, and 10^9. Similarly on the other side there are milli, micro, and nano meaning 10^-3, 10^-6, and 10^-9 respectively.

So centi, and deci are just in between terms used by lay people. Scientists and engineers prefer the units separated by 3 log units, ie the main named ones. I hate centimetres and wouldn't even dream of using 'deci'. There's the potential for confusion with 'deca' which is 10^1.

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