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Crazy from shrooms?

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:shroomer:

Shrooms are great, they're natural, have massive history behind them, you can grow them, you could supply yourself with a never ending supply of delights for the mind which you are fully aware of what your getting (not like buying pills is it).. but

Well the other week swim had a fairly large amount of such delights, and the night was fantastic as you could imagine, but for the first time ever swim was pretty messed up in the head for almost a week later. Swim was stuck in the mushroom mindset, but not in a good way. Thought processes that couldn't be followed etc.. Anyway this bothered swim a bit because he so likes these treats and it would be ashame to find out they can make you go a little :blink::huh::scratchhead::unsure: so he'd like to know more, if any of you have felt something similar.

I asked around for swim and a friend told me that a long time ago he knew a guy who was perhaps predisposed to some mental instability, and he loved his shrooms, so much that he integrated it into his daily diet. He proceeded to move to Byron Bay and eat nothing but fresh seaweed - unfortunately he contracted some parasitical disease which attacked his nervous system, paralysing him from the waist down. Years on he's still paralysed, plus he has some kind of induced psychosis he can't seem to undo.. Now i don't see swim living off shrooms and fresh seaweed, but this is a touch of a concern...

Syd Barrett went into a lsd induced psychotic episode, and i'm sure you've heard his story.. If not google him!

Tryptamines... is this a pattern? SWIM LOVES TRYPTAMINES

Tryptamines seem to resonate with him, especially dmt, and shrooms, and 5meo-dmt. But mainly dmt, could swim be running the risk of inducing some kind of episode from over use of dmt?

:)

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When you hop in a bath, you do so for a variety of reasons that usually feel good (feel clean, relaxed, play with rubber ducky, time to think about life etc). If you stay in too long you end up dehydrated with pruned skin. Maybe its the same with tryptamines and the like. Hop in the bath now and then to cleanse your soul but get out before your mind prunes.

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Actually it is debatable whether Syd Barrett really entered a psychotic state from LSD use alone - infact his LSD plateaued long before his problems intensified, but im sure he had a predisposition and that wouldnt have helped.

Some think he is actually an asperger syndrome sufferer.

Anyway, yeah a really bad trip i had once made e feel anxious for about 4 days afterwards. But i got over it, got back on the saddle and it was smooth sailing from there.

Why doesnt your friend just take it easy for a while and then see what happens?

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too much of a good thing always ends up sour.

keep your eyes on the scales man, keep a balance between fun and peresonal resposablity to your well being.

besides everything is more fun in moderation

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I once too had a similar experience. Sometimes our attitutudes towards such plants is too lax, bad trips ensue and ppl think shit its the shrooms fault.. insert substance here lol. These plants, Teachers are powerfull tools and can be used as such with intent to discover and face oneself or learn the mysteries of the world at large, more then a form of entertainment. That said im not having a go at anyone,and certainly not saying its all serious - forsure it can be fun and enjoyable but just interested in if people stop and think.. Hey what are/is my intentions and what/how can i learn and grow from such experiences. Surely if nothing changes one is doomed in a vicious repetative cycle.

Bad experiences are all perspective no one ever said learning was easy.

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I have had 2 people I know go away never to fully return. One, was only 14 at the time and some friends added shrooms to his meal, I think it was his first time, but he was in a psych hospital a long time, has never really recovered. It is a stupid thing dosing someone without their knowledge and I would never contemplate it, even then, I think he must have had some predisposition towards this kind of thing.

The other, well the jury is out on that one, could have been any number of things he was taking, but he would dose high like 80 -100 subs. Anyways one day he didn't come back properly, from there it was a slow ride into insanity. First symptoms I guess, were when he said he would see a black cat walking through his room, it was a hallucination, cause they had no black cats. At the time this was his only obvious symptom, but he slowly got worse, met jesus, became a christian, talked to jim morrison. He can still lead a semi normal life, work etc but he seems a bit weird, like somethings missing, and If you get him innebriated in any way he becomes a depraved lunitic :blink: He'll wake up in jail for sure!

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Hi Guys,

I think it´s normal that a Bad Trip can mess your mind up for a few days. Mushroom induced psychosis happens but it´s rare. Most of the time they are a result from Drug Combinations. And it´s important to point out that a psychosis isn´t the result of The Drug Use itself. Hallucinogen Drugs are able to bring a latent Psychosis out of your mind. There have been many discussions about this controversial topic during the last years. I only know one person personally who claimed to had an Mushroom Induced Psychosis. When looking at the facts a little more detailed it was obvious that this person had a very bad Setting during his Trip and had a very long abuse history of all kind of drugs at a 24/7 Pattern. And a latent Psychosis as well. If you take drugs all day long, you can surely lose contact over time. But In this case there have been five or six dudes standing around and attacking the person during his trip. Not nice and surely not a good setting either. Actually i don´t think that´s possible to become mad as a result of hallucinogen Mushrooms. If you are an anxious guy, mushrooms will intensify this feeling.Because of this there is one rule of thumb: Never use mushrooms when you´re feeling bad or anxious. Take care of the setting and do only trip whith people that you know and trust. I´m pretty sure that permanent schizophrenia can´t be caused by Hallucinogenic Mushrooms. But as some mental dieases are related to brain chemistry,i´m sure they can develope due to prolonged chemical drug abuse. A few weeks ago i spoke to some guys about GBL withdrawal for example. It was surprising that a common side effect of the withdrawal was that many of them had heard some voices having a conversation about them. AS GBL withdrawal somehow fucks with GABA it´s possible that it can get linked with schizophrenia in some way. Surely Not GABA as a dietary supplement but maybe a general lack of GABA Production over years. But this is rather a suggestion as i´m not a psychiatrist. I just wanted to point out that you can´t generalize the influence of drugs on the psyche. Personally I´m the opinion that the active components in hallucinogen mushrooms rather do good than harm in regard to the general brain chemistry. I´ve heard from people using them after amphetamine use in order to overcome the breakdown depressions. bye EG

Edited by Evil Genius

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Spiking a 14 year old kid with a powerful psychedelic is downright stupidity.How is this kid supposed to recover from such an event??

Living on sea-weed and Psilo's is just as stupid both can contain natural MSG,I mean the brain's fuel alone is glucose and where are the building blocks for sanity and healthy brain function going to come from??

Yeah they can be fun but personally I never take entheogens hedonistically and rarely,in return I have profound experiences...though a couple of days to recover is always beneficial on the body and the psyche and well advised...after all we live in the confines of the construct of the mind and have to live in the general consensus of reality as humans dealing with day-to-day stresses.

As far as entering into the abyss feeling anxious.It is a sign that the ego has a firm grip on your reality.IMHO this is good because the real pay-off is overcoming this fear and letting go.For me they can help immensly in personal growth but abuse is abuse no matter what substance you use and if that's your "set" then that's what you'll get :slap:

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ok, here goes some basic principals of the psilo/ brain reaction and neuro-physiological reactions to psilo... Ive picked up over the years....like i said, its only a basic principal .... although i have seen the MRI scans...

Positive trips...

"+" trips on psilo = enhanced and connective activity between the 4/5 major lobes of the brain forming a highly tuned and ultra-sensitive recepticle to stimuli, the brain is working more inter-connected than ever before, more together to complete the inbetweens, and to create such hightened details like taste/sound perception and touch etc...

Negative trips (bad trips)

"-" trips on psilo= fear, anxiety and balance problem(vertigo) are caused by either a shock during onset or before the dose(example of that poor 14yr old fella not knowing he was dosed. Other triggers or dispositions will also cause bad trip, cause isnt what im on about here, just the actual action..) The brain reacts in the exact opposite to the extreme connectivity it had before. The lobes separate, cutting almost all connectivity between eachother, and only "chatter" minimally between eachother. This physiological effect is entirely why bad trips happen, the brain is shocked somehow(states of confusion or seeing shit that aint supposed to be there) and reacts in the only way it knows how, shut down to minimal systems and re-boot when things have calmed down. It may take some time for the connectivity between the lobes to full recover, but it should happen. Sometimes in hours.

If medical intervention is used at this stage, you better make sure they know what the hells going on(mush consumption)because wrong treatment can actually cause more damage at this stage. You dont wanna disconect the brain even further at this stage(if it can be done via wrong medicine or pshyc treatment.)

In a nutshell, "+" trip are lobal connective, "-" trip lobal disassociative

My bet would be also on woodlovers causing more long term problems.....

Hope that helps somewhat.. :lol:

Edited by BlackDragon

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I have a friend who freaked only once (curled up rocking for hours) but was due to both a very large dose for him (Cubes, 7g dry) and had a bit of a scare on the come-up.....Dose and setting were crap!

Otherwise all has been good on dosages much more appropriate for him, 1.5-2g. The less enjoyable experiences have been due to setting ie. responsibility, life issues at the time, nothing planned to do etc etc

Tripping on a mental 'clean slate' is very important IMHO......and know your material.

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Shit didn't expect that many replies so soon :o glad to hear your input and opinions

Well this was about two weeks ago, we did a bunch of stones at Bimbo in Brunswick St - how many of you know this place!?? - well basically, loud music, very chemical, very in your face extremely non-subtle, but hey that's cool we've done this many times before (i peaked out once and had to retreat to a corner because everyone was looking waaaay too animated i wigged out a little) AND ITS ALWAYS GREAT!

- i should mention something - i have a massive repect for all substances, chemical, plants, animals - i used to smoke lots of pot but FINALLY realised that this was simply an abuse of the substance, and it was consequently completely detrimental to myself. Through stages i've learnt to understand that everything around me has a purpose, serves a purpose- dope is excellent, a great way to share a moment in the right setting etc.. etc.. but that's key, that its not just the dope its everything, people setting etc.. and people forget this, likewise with trips, pills, smack, basically everything that can be abused. People try these, love how they felt that one time and keep trying to bring that moment back, they don't realise its not JUST the drug. Anyway my point is I respect all substances, and let moments of psychedelic intoxication find me - i may or may not have a heap of different treats at home, and previously I could never have something just sitting in a drawer and not indulge in it - now i can. Especially with something like dmt, i LOVE the experience, but its more the reflection after the trip that i find all realisations occur, so frequently i end up bursting out i laughter because i just realised that i am an object just like a chair or something silly like that - but these silly thoughts really put things into perspective! You have no idea how hard it is to do my day job... after something like dmt has shown me what creativity is in my mind and i realise all these things which matter so much more than superficialities of life BLAh well shit you know what i'm trying to say..

-Respect, setting intention, reflection of experiences. I'm just thankful i'm now the person who can do this, and doesn't sit around smoking joint after joint every single day

But! I'm only human, i'm only 23, i love a good night and i'm walking away from extacy.. I do love the out of control and free mind - higher understand - absolutely confidence from ultimate ego shutdown; the understanding of me being no different to anyone anywhere, certainly no better, certainly no worse - just me and free to be me - this is when it starts getting interesting. Amazing things happen! Most unexpected interactions my life is literally soaring. The best thing about it is i realise its not the drugs doing this, they are just tearing down every barrier i've learnt to put up (in a selective manner - dmt - visions visual art; mushrooms - ego; lsa - god knows) and me as me is coming out. Now i'm seeing these things come out in my daily life - all the time! Maybe because i'm 'seeing myself' so frequently i know there's no denying anymore, and like a lucid dream the first step to being conscious in it is to be aware of it and recognise it.

Whoa sorry guys, i wonder if your still with me? Well the point above is i certainly love a party, extacy i'm avoiding, i like my psychedelics and shrooms seems to be such a great option these days - until that moment two weeks ago which made me a little concerned. But someone above mentioned setting, and as much as i know this counts i think i realise just now how much. I met this great girl that night about 10 minutes after i dropped, which was funny in itself but kinda sucked. She actually hung around for the next hour as my friend and i descended, well became that fluffy little cloud in the room :lol: but ultimately i lost her! I think that was a bit of a kick up the ass for me but that's ok, but the night followed with more and more of this. Like at bimbo for some reason the scene can change in a matter of minutes. All cute girls were replaced with drunken blokes - i just remembered this was friday 13'th i'm sure that had something to do with it... Anyway we left, went to my favorite place Black Pearl and just talked and talked - an awesome night but opened up many questions.. a great trip but way to much reflection to follow - and subsequent events that week could not have come at a worse time

BUT! All good now :) all sorted, everythings worked out in the most amazing way.. I think after hearing about seaweed boy i got a little concerned i'm heading down some totally fucked up path, but i don't think so. I think that week was just about getting the push i needed and re-aligning contributing factors in my life. Dmt helped with this :wub:

VENT hmm, i don't think i've ever blasted you guys with my thoughts before, there's a few things for you to know about me anyway.. See i'm on this self discovery path but i'm the only one of my friends that is, some join me in bits but they take things simply for recreational value, and there's nothing wrong with this but like i said i'm on a different path to them, so people here are probably the only ones that would actually understand on the level i'm thinking. Just started reading Tihkal - wow so many words in that book i've spoken before, like as psychedelics break down the conscious barriers and return components of us to simply where we started at before these barriers were put up, leading us to see things in a way which is completely untainted, and verbal expressions of this is almost word for word among the partakers - like we're all hearing these constant sentences one by one.. Maybe!

:shroomer: oooooh yeah

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ps, kudos to anyone that actually reads all that - i believe it was officially my largest post anywhere ever :rolleyes:

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My bet would be also on woodlovers causing more long term problems.....

Just curious, any reason why you came to this conclusion?

Chemical differences? The increased strength per weight of the material or the more intense nature perhaps?

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Just curious, any reason why you came to this conclusion?

DOM, i (and many others) think that the woodlovers are harsher on the body and in particular the nervous system, theres many people now that once have tried cubes or other dunglovers, wont use woodlovers anymore. Specifically for the reason of bodyload/nervous load(eg those shakes and paralysis mentioned in a previous thread), not strength, as ideal "communication level" does is easily obtainable from dunglovers.

Each species/ and variety within has a different "signature", the differing chemical makeup and substrate grown on will effect the ride in differing ways. Some are just simply easier on the body or mind as a whole...

Bd

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DOM, i (and many others) think that the woodlovers are harsher on the body and in particular the nervous system, theres many people now that once have tried cubes or other dunglovers, wont use woodlovers anymore. Specifically for the reason of bodyload/nervous load(eg those shakes and paralysis mentioned in a previous thread), not strength, as ideal "communication level" does is easily obtainable from dunglovers.

Each species/ and variety within has a different "signature", the differing chemical makeup and substrate grown on will effect the ride in differing ways. Some are just simply easier on the body or mind as a whole...

Bd

I see. I have very little experience with woodlovers. Very interesting thanks.

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Subs are ALOT "darker" IME than cubies. I do prefer the subs over the cubes as i beleive the experience to be more significant.

I have talked to others that beleive the complete opposite though. They concluded that the subs were too dark and this didnt allow them to "interact" with the mushrooms, they didnt seem as free in the experience so it was harder to let go.

Its sort of like comparing where they grow and when. Subs like the cold dark damp forests, where as the cubies prefer the tropical conditions and the warmth.

.....that is, if they are actually subs :P

Edited by Passive Daemon

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I lost my perspective a few years ago and with my loss of perspective I lost my respect for the plant teachers. It is easy to see how foolish and disrespectful I was now but back then I was on a steep learning curve and was probably a bit to self confident.

I was taught a harsh lesson which definately was a wake up call.

I really think that slow and steady with appropriate respect is the only way to go, having said that I think it takes some time with your plants to realise that.

Panic, vertigo, dizziness, fear of blackout (due to blood pressure) and nausea is now the price of admittance.

I am hoping that with enough time and respect they will teach me again.

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just very quickly my 2 c:

No known substance can actually lead to permanent psychosis, schizophrenia etc etc.

If the subject is pre-disposed to have a mental instability, psychedelic drugs will most likely enhance this and point it out to the subject, i.e. show him his crazyness.

The subject can then work on this if he/she wants to.

In the case of lsd, no actual cases of permanent damage are proven.

They may be "gone" for even a year or so but will always return to "normal"(whatever that was before drug-use.)

Of course the mental instability itself may progress with or without drugs.

In the case of Syd Barrett, other floyd members have said, that it actually wasn't the acid, but that he was schizophrenic even before he ever tried drugs.

It's very easily gathered if you listen to his records, which are very very strange (stranger than any other floyd).

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It's very easily gathered if you listen to his records, which are very very strange (stranger than any other floyd).
Syd Barret - Birdy Hop

Birdy Hop - he do, he hop along

a lonely bird upon a window there

he, he, there he blow

a windy snow, he knew the snow,

I know the snow, a hoppy bird

The antelope ride around the parasole

just to see if he's a man

enough to meet you in the sandpit

on a flying kind of sign in a meddlesome way

you know the way - I see the flies

she's a little kite the sort

you think you might like to fly

and like a kite you get to see her

every night, you know the way

she's only paving her way -

hectochrome plane - I see the flies.

Birdy Hop - he do, he hop along

a lonely bird upon a window there

he, he, there he blow

a windy snow, he knew the snow,

I know the snow, a hoppy bird

A camel woke up to a polish dawn

wouldn't look to see his feet had gone

he wouldn't like it

wouldn't have the strength to fight it,

I see the flies

I'm the only bird, a little third,

I lost a quarter

had a yearning to be earning just a dollar a day

in a way you shouldn't like it, hectochrome plane

I see the flies

Yeah... seriously...

:huh: A question for thought: gom said "psychedelic drugs will most likely enhance this and point it out to the subject, i.e. show him his crazyness" this i totally agree with. Perhaps would someone agree with me that from the day we're born, we are conditioned in order to fit into this society - just like a child will say exactly what they think, but in time that gets surpressed.. I look at this surpression as mental barriers that block certain aspects of personality, be it creativity or psychotic behaviour, and these barriers exist only in the conscious; the sub-conscious remains free from all conditioning and is always 'pure'.. Some psychedelics are so powerful they can just tear down all these barriers and show you exactly who you are, as perhaps happened with syd and 'seaweed boy'

An example of this is with dmt, i suspect (i presume to know nothing) that when you break through to 'that place' :lol: (god i love this stuff) this is a conscious exploration of your sub-conscious, where many of your thoughts and daily inputs have manifested themselves into components of the dmt world.. but manifested in such a stunning display of visual creativity; i can't draw (well my body can't draw..) perhaps i've got barriers in my consious which exist in the path of my visual creativity flow to artistic expression.

Is it dangerous to realise who you really are? Revealing hidden creativity and personality is the best thing i've accelerated towards with psychedelics.. but what about people who are heading straight for they're demise? Like little they know that they are going to uncover something about themselves that is just incompatible with society; where we'd render them 'psychotic'. Who are we to say they are wrong? Maybe they're the only ones who really see things the way they are?

Well just thoughts... any comment?

Edited by Sphinx

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Is it dangerous to realise who you really are

self-exploration, to me, is one of the major reasons to use psychedelic substances (in other countries of course not in oz)

One time (in another country where it is legal) just 3 woodrose seeds sent me back over 40 years to re-experience something really bad that happened then.

I had forgotten it, or rather, it's impossible to forget, so I had put it in a shelf in my brain where I never go.

But LSA brought me right back there and said: Cope with it. You can't go back and change anything, but cope with it and learn from it, use the experience for your good.

My first acid, age 18, almost 40 years ago now, was the most spiritual thing ever happening to me.

Too complex to even try to put it into words.

That's why I think psychedelic drugs are a good thing for humanity, because they hold up a mirror and show you yourself how you really are.

Some people can't cope with that and say they have an acid-psychosis, a cannabis-psychosis, or like here, a shroom-psychosis.

Really the drug brings it out, it's inside you, you should try and work on it right now, it's the best time.

Nothing to lose, it can only get better.

But if you feel you're going crazy, don't use mind-altering drugs.

best not to use any until you get better.

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'No known substance can actually lead to permanent psychosis, schizophrenia etc etc.'

Probably true but 40Mg of 2t-c-2 will test anyone - like being stuff in hellraiser and a migraine for 18 hours... eww.... No up or down, feeling poisoned - never ever again...

Psilocybin and psilocin are probably one of the more potent agonists of the noradrenaline/sympathetic nervous system loop. often brings on a an early surge of anxiety, feelings of lightheadedness (norepinephrine has a paradoxical affect on blood flow to the brain - dilating the carotid arteries whie increasing heart rate - causing body tremors, clamminess and all your favourites. That combined with what Blackdragon was talking about (which i wasnt actualy aware of) could certain send you into dark places.

It shouldnt be assumed however that this will always be the case.

I generally only get darker experiences when ive been doing mushrooms too often. The more often i do them the darker and less interseting they become. Hold off for a good while and you will be rewarded for it. Never found the same with syd though...

As for woodlovers - ive had some amazing experiences on them. azures were particularly nasty on the body though in terms of sympathetic overactivity - shaking, feeling weak, dizzy, etc. Cold sweats etc. Subs arent generally as bad, but nothing can go as nasty as a sub trip sometimes - fucking straight to jupiter complete with all the atmospherical anomolies and density - ive seen devils and all sorts, blood-curdling screams from in the room behind me constantly and laughing and i was convinced some guys had tricked me out of soul... Dark, blue coloured and ultimately quite disturbing...

Never had a bad experience on cubies or pans - EVER. Cubies can be frustrating because of their relatively low potency, but things tend to feel warm even when they go beyond...

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