Jump to content
The Corroboree
apothecary

Discussions: The Mesa

Recommended Posts

hebrew has kindly offered to do a talk on the Mesa involved in San Pedro ceremonies.

The culture, purpose, symbolism and such will all be discussed.

The talk will begin on Monday 23rd Oct at roughly 8:30PM AEST, and is to be hosted on The Lab (see the pinned thread at the top of this forum for instructions on how to get on).

Keep in mind timezones if you don't live in AEST land!

Be there or be square B)

Some tantalising tidbits:

The traditional mesa norteña has three areas: on the left is the campo ganadero or ‘field of the dark’; on the right is the campo justiciero or the ‘field of the light’ (justiciero means justice); and in the centre is the campo medio or ‘neutral field’, which is the place of balance between the forces of light and dark.

It is important for us not to look at these forces as positive or negative - it is what we human beings do with these

forces which is important.

Edited by apothecary

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bump bump bumperoo!

Don't forget peeps!

You better not forget either hebs :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry i wont be able to make it..

i thought it was tonight :(

but alas, i dont have access to a pc until next weekend as of this afternoon.

i look forward to reading the log.

its awesome to see such things happening, and i look forward to participating in the future.

spread the plant love

e

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

my contribution to the space:

post-507-1161524942_thumb.jpg

post-507-1161524942_thumb.jpg

post-507-1161524942_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

excellent E!

will talk about

what is a mesa

the bancos of a the mesa

the ceremony

brujos and curandero/a

The Pachakuti Mesa

the way forward

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, that was pretty damn cool.

Thanks to those who turned out and a HUGE thanks to hebrew for putting on a talk about usch an interesting topic!

I am spending the rest of tonight on uni work but will have a nice fresh log for you guys who didn't make it sometime soon!

:worship::worship::worship: Much love hebs! :worship::worship::worship:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

:D

was good thanks for the time :):):)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was really enjoying the discussion but my computer unfortunately decided to crash on me, as it does at the moment. Soon after that my lovely lady informed me that my dinner was ready :blush: so I decided to give the rest of the chat a miss. Hope to see the log soon.

Hebrew, I really appreciate the effort you obviously put into research and prepare for the talk. Very high quality information :).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

:BANGHEAD2:

dang i forgot.. lookin forward to that log bro!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One last assignment left for this week, then I'll get on it :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

so hebrew is the catholic artifacts included because of the spanish influence and a way of them to escape persecution from the church? *edit* i guess also what purpose do the catholic images serve in the mesa and have they alwways been part of it. You said christianity had some influence on it so i was curious as to how it actually became included?

Edited by Chemakazi

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

basically when christianity came to SA they had to bring this relegion into thier own belief systemotherwise be persecuted liek so many other native people throughout teh world, but what i liek about south american traditions is that they kept on surviving even with the introduction of christianity they combined a pre columbian tradition with a christian tradition and you get what oyu got today, similar to santo daime.

so you will find most curanderos if not all of them are catholic and work/heal for god. the mesa is something that is very adaptable, so where there would have been other gods or forces that were honoured and called upon in the mesa they have replaced or added new ones which are catholic. there are pictures of various saints and shit like that in the modern mesa and these saints have certain meanings and powers attributed to them which are incoporated into the ritual. often the prayers are catholic based like the hail mary and our father etc. (i dont knwo much about catholic beliefs and dont really care for it so i am not too interested in this side of the mesa, i much prefer the idea of forces of nature and spirit) and some ceremonies are like being in a church for a few hours so i can gather with a long liturgy (is tha the right word?) before the san pedro is even served. also the name san peedro being st peter the keeper of heavens gates, so huachuma wachuma or achuma were replaced with st peter - san pedro.

what was before the spanish arrival is pretty interesting lets see if i can find some info about it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

some random musings about christianity and the mesa

"one result of christian absolutism was the demonisation of all that was non-christian. since christians believed that one satans key roles on this earth was to win over souls by tempting humans with faustian pacts, the veneration of andean deities and ancestors became essentialised and was transformed into simple devil worship"

"sometimes, though, healers healers used the new associations to thier advantage, embracing thier role as satans follwoersto contest the spanish intrusion into thier lives or to increase thier power and prestige as shamans"

i think the effect of chrisitanity upon the mesa has been huge, more than what i suggested last night, for this isnt what is important to me and my idea of the mesa.

"with the rigth and left sides being seen as christian verses pagan, good vs evil, or to put it into society terms, order adn stability vs chaos and disruptionwith the idea that the right has the healing powers of christanity with its christain icons and healing herbs which move to the left side with its pagan, antisocial overtones, which can be percieved as a journey beyond the staus quo, or natural order into the supernatural."

quotes taken from Bonnie glass-coffin's book "the gift of life"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here it is folks.

Five hundred and seven lines of information that I doubt you will read elsewhere.

It took hebs almost two hours to write the whole thing out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Forgot to mention, it seems like my final chunk of log didn't dump, all those extra info links you posted at the end got lost hebrew, so you might as well post them here!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the reply hebrew, yea i noticed in that shaman shop in the link u provided last night the different saints and had a hunch it was coz of the church and its persecution.

These links sina ? :)

heres a new way some peeps are working with the mesa

http://www.mesaworks.com/pachakuti_mesa.php

http://www.ayahuasca-shamanism.co.uk/Huach...Journeys.htm#me

great place to buy things or look

http://www.shamansmarket.com/

some reading

http://www.biopark.org/peru/huachuma-reading.html

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

thats the links

i will post some pics later on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

some photos

raising tobacco at the sacred laggons

raising.jpg

some mesa's

mesa5.jpg

wachuma.jpg

79a41dbc-5c35-4209-a39c-6ddd10f69ef.jpg

mesa3.jpg

HPIM2685.jpg

Eduardo calderon

calderon2.jpg

calderon.jpg

there you go

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i am sorry that i missed the discussion....

for those that are interested in specific discussions about the mesa tradition as well as vegetalismo ie the ayahuasca meztiso tradition as well... check out...

http://tribes.tribe.net/vegetalismo?_click...802d77a51a13%5D

lots of great information there...

i think that its super inmrtant that the tradition is understood by the people working iwth sanpedro... and its perfect that it spread through out aus. becasue it really seems that sanpedro loves it there!

post-1554-1164780751.jpg

post-1554-1164780751.jpg

post-1554-1164780751.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

yeah for sure

i am velvetsiren over there

:lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×